new version of OSAS?

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michaelvpardo

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The Lord just gave me a sudden insight from my youth. As a child I wanted to be a Jew instead of a Catholic, so I could be an inheritor of the promises to Abraham and to Israel. I had a child's carnal mind that got in the way of my understanding and no spiritual life at all. I never knew what to say in a confessional because I had no awareness of my own sin. The "sacraments " failed me, because they were unreal. The word is real. Jesus Christ is real, alive, returning soon, and doesn't live in a small golden box. My surviving and unbelieving brother tipped me off a long time ago to what really bothered him about our "religion. " It was about the whole concept of a chosen people (the catholic conundrum apparently). He even married a Jewish girl as his first wife, so his kids are of "the chosen people."
He divorced his first wife and married a Catholic girl, but only professes a belief in Taoism (If you can't be Jewish, you might as well believe in something that doesn't involve judgment for sin, especially when you stand condemned by the law.) He would never admit this stuff and gets extremely angry and defensive when ever I discuss my faith with him, but you really can't escape the conviction of sin, even when you openly reject the scripture. Someone just misapplied Romans chapter 2 while trying to make the point that we can receive the circumcision of the Spirit and be Jews inwardly. Problem is that our goal was not, is not, and never will be to become Jews. The Israel of God is one of faith, not one of blood, but Israel wasn't a Jew. The kingdom of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, was not Israel after the rebellion of the Northern tribes, but was only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. It took the name of Judah, because Judah held the scepter, Rehoboam was the grandson of king David, with the promise of a kingdom which would not end. Israel was eventually judged by God and removed into captivity. Judah likewise was judged and removed to Babylon. Only a poor remnant was left behind. However, the Jews, along with their levites and priests (who were spread through the land of Israel without inheritance but lived in the cities and by the tithe) were allowed to return to Jerusalem after 70 years of captivity. The word Jew is derived from Judah, because only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and their levites, persisted in the land until the coming of the Messiah.
Jesus was born a Jew and lived under the law as a Jew, but God could've chosen any nation to be chosen for His Revelation. Abraham was born Abram and came from Ur of the Caldees, a place with many gods and forms of idolatry, but He heard God and believed. It took him a long time to get where he was going. He took a lot of detours on the way, did a lot of lying and basically gave his wife away a few times to protect his own skin out of fear of the kings in those lands in which he journeyed, yet God accounted him as righteous. The fact that he eventually did what God told him to do justified his faith to all who saw him receive God's promises, but he doubted God enough to take Sarah's handmaiden to produce a son in his old age, rather than wait for Sarah's womb to open (it was reasonable doubt in consideration of their advanced age). He didn't have any bible as a rule book to follow, but believed God and eventually did what He was told to do. His faith grew strong enough to be willing to offer up his own son as a burnt offering during that terrible test of his faith, but his confidence was in God's promises, even to the necessity of raising the dead in order to keep them.
 

michaelvpardo

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Told ya I would not be drawn into the negativity....so time to put you on ignore...
Peace...looking for those looking to discuss scripture in love.....so peace
Good luck with that. If I didn't love you, I wouldn't give you the time of day, much less minister the word to you, but carnal sees as carnal thinks.
Sorry that you would consider sound doctrine, ministry, and encouragement "negativity", but with that attitude you'll never grow in Christ.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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And why does "metanoia:" not mean to change ones mind about sin? if, as you say, the fact is that it means chance one's mind about Jesus, please substantiate that so-called fact... show me where you got that interpretation from?

You, and those on your end of this are now making words mean what you choose for them to mean. There is absoluely no reason why the term would not mean to change our mind about sin, none whatsoever, and you have given us no reason to believe it means to change our mind about Jesus.

You all are writing your own bible.




The word” metanoia” simply means to change your mind about something .....there is nothing inherently good or bad about it.....If one thinks that sin is something that God thinks is funny and the more you sin the more He likes it—— if that person “ changes his mind” and realizes that sin is awful and does not please God, He has had a “ Metanoia” experience in regard to sin..... If one thinks that the price of tea in China is outrageous and later “ changes his mind” and now believes that that price is actually quite reasonable , he has had a “ metanoia” experience in “ that” regard.....

If every time Metanoia is mentioned in the original Greek , and is translated into the word” repent” and if Repent means to stop sinning , or to TRY to stop sinning or to be sorry for sin , or to have remorse over sin—— if that were the case—- what purpose would it serve ? If every time John the Baptist or Jesus said” repent” they meant “ stop sinning” as opposed to “ Turn to God” or “ change your mind” about erroneous thinking , it would be great advice....any reduction in sin is a great thing .....but nobody knew better than John or Jesus that “ conquering sin” was NOT God’s Plan to Save Fallen Man.....

The Way to Salvation was FAITH —- NOT “ cleaning up your act” .That “ Faith” had to be in Jesus Christ....you had to Believe that He was the Lord.....the Son Of God....

Here is an example of how we can know that Jesus was talking about “ changing your mind” about Himself when He preached “ Repentance” ......

“ Repent ye, and BELIEVE the GOSPEL” ......That “ gospel” is not just anything that sounds good in the Bible.....the Gospel is in 1cor15:1-4 ....it is specific.....it is what Saves....it is ALL-about Jesus— His Death, burial and Resurrection.....He is saying “ change your mind” about the Gospel and start Believing it .....even if Jesus “meant” to “ stop Sinning” when He said “ repent” it would not be the part of the sentence that saved you .....To ” stop sinning” means you have to Keep the Law—- and “ By The Law , NO man will be Justified”......Jesus says “ repent” and tells you how to do it.....”Believe the Gospel”...... it falls right in line with what Paul said.....as it Must!

Acts 20:21 says.....” I have declared to both Jew and Gentile that they must TURN TO GOD ( NOT “ Turn from Sin) in repentance and have Faith in our Lord Jesus.....

Turning TO as opposed to Turning FROM, may seem like a small thing, but it could be the difference between Heaven and Hell .....The man that Turns to God will automatically get God's Spirit and turn from sin......but the man who turns from sin may Never turn to God and Believe the Gospel that saves him....

Turning from sin is a good thing , it will make you Moral.....but it will not make you Righteous ..Righteousness is something you get IMPUTED with because you believe the Gospel ....an Unbeliever that turns from sin is still an Unbeliever....that is why it is dangerous to preach repentance as turning from Sin—- if anybody ever knew how to turn from sin , it was the Religious leaders of Jesus day, and He referred to them as “ sons of Hell”....There is a valuable lesson to be learned there for those who think they can be Saved by a “ Pharisee - Style “ Doctrine Of “ Good Living” .....it’s Grace from start to finish.....a Grace Given to those that Believe the Gospel .....

Sorry about the length of this.....but as you said....it is important stuff and I threw some stuff in there for Newbies that I thought they might need to hear..

Your “ take “ was a fresh one and an interesting one..... I just disagree.....God Bless
 

Ferris Bueller

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You see the people there as the works of the servant builders. On the other hand I don’t see it that way in 1 Cor. 3:9-12.
The people the servant builders minister to are in fact the work being spoken about.....

Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1
If you were laboring on a building and I wanted to see your work, I'd come look at the building. I wouldn't come to you. And I wouldn't look at the tools you used, or the plans you followed. I'd look at what you actually built. And in the case of a building composed of people (which you agree is what the passage is talking about) I'd come look at the building composed of people. And I would test them to see the quality of your workmanship, not you, and not the tools or the plans you used to build them.
 

Ferris Bueller

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“ Turning from sin” , you say, does not EARN Salvation , yet you say you can not GET Salvation without it.....isn’t that a tad Contradictory ? You DO think it is earned, in my humble opinion.
Here, I stumbled across this last night after I made that post....

"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 97.)
Repentance has nothing to do with doing something to earn salvation. It's the state of mind one must come to to receive forgiveness. (Note, also, the turning from sin to God.)
 

Ferris Bueller

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...notice there was nothing mentioned that God “ opened her heart and made sure she Repented from all of her sins) .....it just ain’t in there.
Paul taught repentance......

First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20

And there is no salvation without repentance.....

Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away Acts 3:19

And we know Paul considered her saved, so we know that he not only told her to repent, but that she did repent......

“If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us. Acts 16:15
 
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Corlove13

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Titus 2....


11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Why did He give Himself up for us?
Does it say He gave Himself up for us so that we could have heaven when we die?

Or that he might redeem us from all iniquity?

And how is this done?

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

This is an important passage for those looking in not part of this argument who really are searching for truth.

DOES THE PASSAGE HERE SAY : WHO GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR US SO THAT WE CAN HAVE HEAVEN WHEN WE DIE?

Nope! even though that may be the outcome.

The Key Is how we can begin life now that never ends.

Read the passage: First it says- He gave himself up that He might redeem us from
All iniquity.

Does that begin after you leave the earth? Or is The passage speaking of now?
And what does that have to do with being Zealous of good works...?


So one must put OSAS aside...because..
It's not about heaven when you die as much as it is getting heaven into us now while we are on earth physically living.......

Because Jesus said: And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

So it's about coming alive now..
And look up the word "believes" is it in the past.....no, it is present, active...

Let me stop here so you can meditate on this..

OSAS...is saying that once you believe something Jesus did for you, you have heaven when you die.

So it make works that will stem from the love of God optional.

If you are reading this you will either have to humble yourself...or you will act in pride to try to force your understanding into this puzzle.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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..he got a Promise from God that can’t be broken....he will “ Never come into Condemnation” .... Never means “ Never” , once he Believes.....

I am convinced that , like me, A Believer that loses his Faith will,get it back before he dies....If he does not? He’s still covered.....if he “ believed” for one Nano- Second he has qualified as one who ALREADY passed from Death to life.
And this, folks, is the NEW Osas—Osas 2.0. Vastly different than the old Osas—Osas 1.0—which taught that if you lost your faith (or lived in sin) you were never saved to begin with. Osas 2.0 is winning the day. Osas 1.0 is disappearing fast, despite it being argued as vehemently and touted as the absolute truth in it's day as Osas 2.0 is today.

I'm not even sure if Osas 1.0, the original Osas teaching gets any representation in on-line forums anymore.
 
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Corlove13

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Let's look at another passage and try not to filter through OSAS.....it's going to be hard but try......

he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 3:6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior.


3:7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs
with the confident expectation of eternal life.

Let's meditate on this for a day...
 

Ferris Bueller

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I've read it at least a few dozen times and preached through it back when I lead small worship services in a few nursing homes as part of our Church ministry. My understanding is not the problem, or I wouldn't have been chosen for the works I must do in Him. (And for clarity, those works that I do in Him are not my works, but His for without Him, I can do nothing (good.)
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. Matthew 13:38
Perhaps you should read Matthew 13 again, a few more times and ask Him to show you what the parables mean. I've heard error about some of these parables from biblical scholars and teachers that I genuinely respect and know are brothers in the Lord, but some misinterpretations are intentional because of the influence of free Masonry upon Christianity.
"His kingdom" in this world. His kingdom polluted with people and things that cause sin. What do you not understand about that?

...at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. Matthew 13:40-41
And that is the picture in 1 Corinthians 3:5-15. Well meaning, but misguided or ineffective servants of God labor for the kingdom, only to have built into the "His kingdom" on this earth people made of hay, wood, and stubble. People who will get burned up in the coming judgment by fire, and so will not be present with the laborer on the other side of the judgment to be his reward. That's why the servant of God needs to be careful how he builds! Osas type 2, and the prosperity gospel are two very good examples of well meaning but misguided servants of God who will lose reward for their labor in the kingdom because their message builds people into the kingdom who will not pass through the judgment to come.


A very good spiritual relationship I had with a man and his wife in the church got ruined because he just couldn't accept the fact that false people were in the kingdom of God. His wife understood it, but he couldn't, and he got very mad at me about it. And so a very wonderful relationship ended. A very effective relationship where they would supernaturally discern needs among people in the church and God's readiness to answer their need, and I would pray for them and God would answer. We were a team. But the devil won......again. When are we going to learn? I think we're so close to the end now that I don't think it much matters.
 

Corlove13

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Let's look at another passage and try not to filter through OSAS.....it's going to be hard but try......

he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 3:6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior.


3:7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs
with the confident expectation of eternal life.

Let's meditate on this for a day...
So first we become heirs- for Romans 8:17 states: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
 

Corlove13

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So first we become heirs- for Romans 8:17 states: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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I forgot about your attempt to address the verse, so I apologize for that.....I believe you were the “ first” to argue against the obvious and failed.....at least you tried....

The Promise is that the very second that you Believe , the Promise is in effect no matter what happens down the line ....you are ALREADY a Possessor Of Eternal Life .....you have ALREADY passed from Death unto Life.....and on top of that, you can NEVER come under Condemnation.....” Already have” and “ Never” has got you covered fully—- there is no way to get out of it.
After you get off your pain pills examine the verb tenses in John 5:24 here.....

John 5 :: King James Version (KJV)
(Click on the parsing button for each verb)

Or if that site is to cumbersome you can scroll down to the bottom of this page for the breakdown of the verb tenses in the verse....
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

You'll see that Jesus is saying those who are presently hearing and presently believing are the ones who presently have eternal life and presently do not come into judgment. These present tense verbs are highlighted below....

Truly, truly, I say to you that the one hearing My word and believing the One having sent Me, he has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 BLB
But you have changed it to mean the one who had heard and had believed in the past (but may not now) has eternal life and will never come into judgment. See, I didn't change a word in the passage. Anti-Osas doesn't have to do that with your Osas passages to make them mean anit-Osas. But Osas has to change their Osas passages to derive their Osas message from them. You changed the verb tenses of the verse to derive your erroneous Osas message.

Just so you understand, John himself in another letter makes it clear that the promise is only for those who are presently believing and have not abandoned their belief in the word......

"...let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25

And, look at the reason in the very next verse why he is telling us this.....

"I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you." 1 John 2:26
The reason being, so we won't be deceived! We are not to be deceived about the fact that only those in whom the word remains remain in the Son and the Father! IOW, BB, we are not to be deceived by what you teach! Those in whom the word does NOT remain do not remain in the Son and the Father. Osas 2.0 is a farce! And it has taken over the church!
 
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michaelvpardo

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Here, I stumbled across this last night after I made that post....

"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 97.)
Repentance has nothing to do with doing something to earn salvation. It's the state of mind one must come to to receive forgiveness. (Note, also, the turning from sin to God.)
True repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit and He doesn't start working on us at the moment of our salvation, but uses everything in our lives to bring us to Him. He doesn't have to indwell us to be present with us. The Holy Spirit convinces us of the truth, we don't convince ourselves. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, using our conscience, His word, and the emotion of guilt. People learn how to silence their own conscience, sin hardens the heart, but the voice of God is not something that you can lightly ignore. The Holy Spirit, when He indwells us, gives new life to our spirit, even as God breathed into Adam the breath of life. Part of that process is a new and clean conscience. A tender conscience is a necessity to keep us on track, but with His indwelling Spirit, we now have God speaking directly to our Spirit without the separating influence of our sin nature. Now, God the Holy Spirit does not leave us though He can be grieved by our continuing sin.
Do you understand Romans 4:7-8?
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

That's the guy I always want to be as long as I remain a meat puppet. Not because I want to sin and be an offense to God, or to grieve His Spirit, but because the sin nature is retained by the flesh, the "old man" and our new birth is the beginning of our struggle against our fleshly nature, not the end of it. When we receive Christ by faith, we receive His power to wage war upon our own fleshly nature. We recieve power to crucify the flesh and count ourselves dead to sin. We receive a clean conscience and that conscience is renewed every day by the mercies of God and the blood of Christ.
Now, I do believe that our sanctification is a life long process, but that sanctification is by the word of God. That process is the process of coming into agreement with what He says. Our justification in the terms and context that James uses the word is the justification of our testimony before men. Our justification in the terms and context of Paul's epistles is "positional" and concurrent with recieving the Holy Spirit and the adoption as sons of God. Paul recognized redemption as accomplished by Christ, salvation and justification as Christ's work in you, all based upon the promises of God and faith in those promises. The Jewish church struggled with Paul's writings, even Peter was called out for his hypocrisy during that time when the Jewish leaders were trying to add circumcision and the keeping of the law to the gospel. You have to remember that the temple, the daily sacrifices, all the labor of a Levitical priesthood, did not cease at the resurrection or at the day of pentecost, but in 70AD when the Roman legions laid waste to Jerusalem and destroyed the temple completely, making worship at the temple an impossibility. People hold onto their old fleshly ways. The first church was no exception. God's will was in no way thwarted by the destruction of the temple. God's will was enforced by the destruction of the temple. When the resurrected Christ gave the great commission to His disciples, He told us to go out into all the world, preaching the gospel, baptizing men in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and to teach them to obey all that He taught them. However, His disciples didn't rush out into the world for the most part, but mainly stayed in the region around Jerusalem until the first persecutions of the Christians in Palestine. The persecutions served God's purpose in dispersing the disciples, who were being slow to follow the Lord's command. My point is that there were many lazy, slothful, contented with their salvation, disciples from the very beginning of the church. They didn't loose their salvation because of their lack of zeal, their disobedience to the great commission, or their inward bickering over the keeping of lists of rules, but God's sovereignty over creation moved them to accomplish His will even though their will was not entirely aligned with His. God is in control, not us. God does His work, despite us, and God does His work in us and through us. God's presence is what sanctifies us. We can cooperate as good and obedient sons, or we can be uncooperative and suffer His discipline, but no where in scripture do we find any statement that God imputes sin to His sons or rejects them in their failings. We do have warnings that compare us to the angels and warn against repeating the error of Satan, but it was only Paul, the Apostle to the gentiles, that preached a pure gospel of salvation through faith in Christ and justification through that same faith. Jesus didn't teach this in a direct manner to the Jews under the law of Moses, because the New and perfect covenant, the covenant kept by God Himself and not by the will of men, was not established until His death, under the old covenant, His resurrection in the new, and the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit sent by Him to all that would receive Him by faith. You enter the new covenant by faith, but God keeps the covenant unconditionally, just as He did with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, just as He did with Noah, the family of Noah, and all the beasts of the field (are beasts able to keep a covenant on their own?)
Much of our present misunderstanding is only from poor interpretation and application of scripture, carnal thought, and preconceived biases. For example, how many people think that sheol is hell, rather than a waiting place for final judgment? How many people think that the "outer darkness" is hell rather than another unpleasant waiting place for final judgment? How many people miss the meaning of the entire 34th chapter of Isaiah?
I was just looking up some on line definitions of the word sheol or seol, the hebrew word for the grave and those broad and widely held misunderstandings of scripture are specifically the result of equating heaven with paradise and hell with the grave, neither of which is ever stated in scripture. On the contrary, the "outer darkness " is first mentioned in the old testament and it's meaning is clear, if your eyes can see it. God doesn't generally use synonyms. The purpose of synonyms in writing is to keep that which is written from boring us, and I'm sure that most of us find genealogies in scripture more than a little boring. God's use of specific words in scripture is to provide specific meaning to what He says to the degree that impure language is capable of conveying that meaning. Words typically aren't specific enough to convey meaning without context. Modern languages are more precise than ancient ones, but people constantly corrupt them by expanding the usage of words to mean more than one thing through their usage and because of our corrupted nature.
When Jesus spoke of Lazarus being taken to paradise and resting in Abraham's bosom, was He really talking about heaven? The language we have in English is in the present tense and I don't know the original languages, but Jesus plainly stated: No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. John 3:13
No where in scripture is heaven called the permanent abode of God. Heaven is part of creation and God existed before creation. Even Jesus said that Heaven and Earth would pass away. In the millennial kingdom, heaven comes down to Earth, all the host of heaven is brought low, every high and exalted thing is brought low. The outer darkness is still Christ's kingdom, under His authority and rule, but separated from all the blessings of obedience to God, separated from His person, who dwells in the Holy city, the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven. Jesus provides light in place of the sun, moon, and stars, but the outer darkness is only illuminated by proximity to Jesus and those wise who are judges sent among the nations:
At that time Michael shall stand up,The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Those who are wise shall shine

Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever. Daniel 12:1-3
Is any of this sinking in yet?
 
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amigo de christo

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The promise is for believing people. As long as you are believing, you have the promises of God. And nobody can take them away from you. But you must be believing. That is the condition of the promise. That is the New Covenant—a deal based on faith, not works.
Exactly . JESUS is telling the folks how to be saved . Just as he also tells those who believe on Him , Continue in me
or you will be cast out .
We need to take serious , to heart all things JESUS spoke . Just as the apostles would later remind as well .
 
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TheslightestID

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The word” metanoia” simply means to change your mind about something .....there is nothing inherently good or bad about it.....If one thinks that sin is something that God thinks is funny and the more you sin the more He likes it—— if that person “ changes his mind” and realizes that sin is awful and does not please God, He has had a “ Metanoia” experience in regard to sin..... If one thinks that the price of tea in China is outrageous and later “ changes his mind” and now believes that that price is actually quite reasonable , he has had a “ metanoia” experience in “ that” regard.....

If every time Metanoia is mentioned in the original Greek , and is translated into the word” repent” and if Repent means to stop sinning , or to TRY to stop sinning or to be sorry for sin , or to have remorse over sin—— if that were the case—- what purpose would it serve ? If every time John the Baptist or Jesus said” repent” they meant “ stop sinning” as opposed to “ Turn to God” or “ change your mind” about erroneous thinking , it would be great advice....any reduction in sin is a great thing .....but nobody knew better than John or Jesus that “ conquering sin” was NOT God’s Plan to Save Fallen Man.....

The Way to Salvation was FAITH —- NOT “ cleaning up your act” .That “ Faith” had to be in Jesus Christ....you had to Believe that He was the Lord.....the Son Of God....

Here is an example of how we can know that Jesus was talking about “ changing your mind” about Himself when He preached “ Repentance” ......

“ Repent ye, and BELIEVE the GOSPEL” ......That “ gospel” is not just anything that sounds good in the Bible.....the Gospel is in 1cor15:1-4 ....it is specific.....it is what Saves....it is ALL-about Jesus— His Death, burial and Resurrection.....He is saying “ change your mind” about the Gospel and start Believing it .....even if Jesus “meant” to “ stop Sinning” when He said “ repent” it would not be the part of the sentence that saved you .....To ” stop sinning” means you have to Keep the Law—- and “ By The Law , NO man will be Justified”......Jesus says “ repent” and tells you how to do it.....”Believe the Gospel”...... it falls right in line with what Paul said.....as it Must!

Acts 20:21 says.....” I have declared to both Jew and Gentile that they must TURN TO GOD ( NOT “ Turn from Sin) in repentance and have Faith in our Lord Jesus.....

Turning TO as opposed to Turning FROM, may seem like a small thing, but it could be the difference between Heaven and Hell .....The man that Turns to God will automatically get God's Spirit and turn from sin......but the man who turns from sin may Never turn to God and Believe the Gospel that saves him....

Turning from sin is a good thing , it will make you Moral.....but it will not make you Righteous ..Righteousness is something you get IMPUTED with because you believe the Gospel ....an Unbeliever that turns from sin is still an Unbeliever....that is why it is dangerous to preach repentance as turning from Sin—- if anybody ever knew how to turn from sin , it was the Religious leaders of Jesus day, and He referred to them as “ sons of Hell”....There is a valuable lesson to be learned there for those who think they can be Saved by a “ Pharisee - Style “ Doctrine Of “ Good Living” .....it’s Grace from start to finish.....a Grace Given to those that Believe the Gospel .....

Sorry about the length of this.....but as you said....it is important stuff and I threw some stuff in there for Newbies that I thought they might need to hear..

Your “ take “ was a fresh one and an interesting one..... I just disagree.....God Bless

Not much more to say except the following and many verses like it are very clear.


Acts 2:38
New International Version

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

Scripture is all I have, it's either good enough, or it isn't.
 
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TheslightestID

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True repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit and He doesn't start working on us at the moment of our salvation,

Yet, the following states the repentence comes before we even get the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repentence is up to us...we do it, or we do not.

 
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BloodBought 1953

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"His kingdom" in this world. His kingdom polluted with people and things that cause sin. What do you not understand about that?

...at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. Matthew 13:40-41
And that is the picture in 1 Corinthians 3:5-15. Well meaning, but misguided or ineffective servants of God labor for the kingdom, only to have built into the "His kingdom" on this earth people made of hay, wood, and stubble. People who will get burned up in the coming judgment by fire, and so will not be present with the laborer on the other side of the judgment to be his reward. That's why the servant of God needs to be careful how he builds! Osas type 2, and the prosperity gospel are two very good examples of well meaning but misguided servants of God who will lose reward for their labor in the kingdom because their message builds people into the kingdom who will not pass through the judgment to come.


A very good spiritual relationship I had with a man and his wife in the church got ruined because he just couldn't accept the fact that false people were in the kingdom of God. His wife understood it, but he couldn't, and he got very mad at me about it. And so a very wonderful relationship ended. A very effective relationship where they would supernaturally discern needs among people in the church and God's readiness to answer their need, and I would pray for them and God would answer. We were a team. But the devil won......again. When are we going to learn? I think we're so close to the end now that I don't think it much matters.



I hold out hope that you and I we can never fully break apart as long as we cling to our mutual fascination with “ Gilligan’s Island”.....did you also like “ My Mother the Car?”....... Lol....
( I actually Met Jerry Van Dyke in a bar once ! )
 
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