How is it that you can deny Jesus but you can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit? VERY inconsistent! You're making this up to fit your OSAS myth!
OSAS Question
- Thread starter kcnalp
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I went to heaven, because I believe, then I UNbelieve???
God GIVES HIS children, At BIRTH, a SOUND mind! (1Tim_1:7 KJB!)
Only those who "JESUS NEVER Knew," would make this stuff up...
Who thinks this stuff up? Those with an UNsound mind?
God GIVES HIS children, At BIRTH, a SOUND mind! (1Tim_1:7 KJB!)
Only those who "JESUS NEVER Knew," would make this stuff up...
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
NO I am simply describing what the bible declared is the blasphemy of the Spirit. For decades I thought people could blaspheme the spirit, until I was shown to read more carefully with my eyes wide open. then I learned it could only be committed by the nation of Israel (through its leaders) and only when Jesus was walking on the earth. Jesus issued the specific judgment for this specific sin and it does not hurt us.
We cannot say Jesus does miracles in the land by beelzebub, only believers now can perform miracles.
What a horrible Satanic deception!
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It is not a horrible satanic deception anymore than Jesus cast out demons by beelzebub.
If this verse stood by itself I would agree with you (as I used to for decades). But context matters very very very much and to remove this verse from its context is the horrible satanic deception.
In the synoptics- the context is directed specifically atr Jesus for performing a specific miracle. It is not a blanket statment directed at all generations and every individual. Just like the prohibition against eating pork applies to every individual in every generation. YOu cannot pull a verse out of its context in ordewr to make it apply to something out of its context.
Should I believe you or Jesus?
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Of course you should believe Jesus. but bewlieve Him in the context He spoke and do not pull HIs Words out of their context to make them stand for something they don't!
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% but no one other than Jews who were alive could commit this sin and said the miracles Jesus did were by the power of beelzebub. But that is the context and you seem to not want to keep verses in their context.
MARK 3:
22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Do try to keep Gods Word in Gods context.
The context in no way changes what Jesus said to US.
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
We are not reading about "one who" says/claims he has faith? In vs 14 we are reading about James telling "my brethren", if "someone" says....
The context in this verse is who is the "someone" James is talking about.
In my mind since he is talking to the "brethren" of the church, the "someone" has to be one of them. Of course we can always know who has been saved. It is one who is doing Christian works. If you are not about your Lords works, then you really have not been saved. It is a sure sign, and James is telling "his brethren" that he knows who has been saved or not.
Last edited:
Please tell us what the context is for Mark 3:29? Then maybe we can know the truth? IOW don't tell us it is out of context, but tell us what the context is so we can mend our ways, if you can.
If one goes to Church he is saved ? No !
If anyone believes in Jesus does that mean he is saved ? No !
I someone says to you, you are saved ? does that mean that you are truly Saved ? No !
I one says to you, repeat after me XYZ words and then claims you are now saved ? No !
Are you saved because of being baptised ? No !
You are only Saved if you are truly born again of the Holy Spirit and that means you have 100% conviction in Jesus Christ and if you have real faith but some doubt in some regard that means you are OK, because not everyone will be truly born again who believes, bible states about one can only consume milk and we all did to start from but then moved on to more solid food to be able to fathom more understanding.
Now even a Priest maybe well learned in the craft but not truly born again in fact, they are loyal to the Church and such things of this world and their are plenty of them around, just look at Pope Frances he is one of a craft but clearly not born again at all. and that's how you get child molesters etc etc in the Churches, because no one who is truly born again would do such a thing in fact.
Anyone who claims, look at my works ? it is to ones own idols. Look at what I did ! beat that ? Well No they are of this world in fact and they are doing the works of Man, fact is that such is but filthy rags in fact.
One need only abide in Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, but if one rejects such then one is lost.
I have seen maybe 90% of the people who I grew up with and went to Bible study nowadays have any faith, they once did believe. like the parable of the sower.
If anyone believes in Jesus does that mean he is saved ? No !
I someone says to you, you are saved ? does that mean that you are truly Saved ? No !
I one says to you, repeat after me XYZ words and then claims you are now saved ? No !
Are you saved because of being baptised ? No !
You are only Saved if you are truly born again of the Holy Spirit and that means you have 100% conviction in Jesus Christ and if you have real faith but some doubt in some regard that means you are OK, because not everyone will be truly born again who believes, bible states about one can only consume milk and we all did to start from but then moved on to more solid food to be able to fathom more understanding.
Now even a Priest maybe well learned in the craft but not truly born again in fact, they are loyal to the Church and such things of this world and their are plenty of them around, just look at Pope Frances he is one of a craft but clearly not born again at all. and that's how you get child molesters etc etc in the Churches, because no one who is truly born again would do such a thing in fact.
Anyone who claims, look at my works ? it is to ones own idols. Look at what I did ! beat that ? Well No they are of this world in fact and they are doing the works of Man, fact is that such is but filthy rags in fact.
One need only abide in Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, but if one rejects such then one is lost.
I have seen maybe 90% of the people who I grew up with and went to Bible study nowadays have any faith, they once did believe. like the parable of the sower.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Now just prove that this commentary written by Luke, Mark and Matthew was suppossed to be directed at us and is not simplyi a commentary about what took place with the elders of Israel.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I will gladly show the context again to help people understand.
We must remember that all three synoptics give commentary of this event. Matt. 12: 22-32, Mk. 3:22-30, Luke 11:14-20.
Let us set the biblical scene.
Jesus had come to present the kingdom to Israel and showed HImself to be the long awaited Messiah! We know John was His forerunner and when Jesus sent out the disciples, they were to only go to Jews and announce th ekingdom of heaven had come.
Jesus performed many public miracles to show Himself the Messiah, but there were three that stand out in particular. The reason they stood out is that it had been taught in jewish cirlces that these 3 miracles could only be done when Messiah came. These three miracles were: 1: the healing of a man born blind, 2: The healing of Jewish Lepers ( never had been done prior to Jesus) and 3. the casting out of a demon from a deaf dumb man. Jews could cast demons out, but they had to establish communication with the demon, learn its name and then using its name, cast it out. By the exzorcism in the gospel passages, Jesus had already healed the lepers, gave sight to teh man born blind (both these are well commented on in the scriptures) and now He performs the third and final messianic miracle- the exorcism of a demon from a deaf and dumb man.
Remember we muyst look at all three passages to get the full picture of what took place at this event. but let us look at Matt. 12: 22-23
22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
The people asked the pharisees a rhetorical question here. They were saying this is the Messiah isn't it? (Son of David is a Messianic title). The reason why they said this is because they were taught all their lives that only Messiah could do this miracle. So the pharisees were forced to give an answer- Yes He is or no He isn't Messiah, but give a reason why He is not Messiah! We know their choice.
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
This is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and Judgment was set against that generation.
1. the kingdom was revoked from that generation to be given to afuture generation of Israel.
2. Physical judgment was set and defined in Luke 21:20-24
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
this had been previously prophesied (though not in such detail) and fulfilled in the 66-70 Ad siege and destruction of Jerusalem.
Also the entire nature of Jesus ministry changed. No longer did Jesus send out the disciples saying "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" for th ekingdom was revoked and postponed.
He taught the masses only in parables to hide the truth from them.
Matt. 13:10-15:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Also th eonly public miracle He did was the sign of Jonah to the Jews-resurrection. He did it twice while on earth (Lazarus and Himself) and will do it one more time to Israel with the two witnesses. All miracles after this point were personal and on the basis of faith.
Also He now went and prepared the disciples to build the church. It was also at this point that the pharisees had gone from inquiry, to investigation (that is why they were there- investigating Jesus) to accusing to later plotting to condemn Him.
So why is this blasphemy only capable by the nation of Israel when Jesus walked on the earth?
1. He performed a miracle that was taught only Messiah could do.
2. The Pharisees accused Jesus of being demon possessed to perform the Messianic miracle. (The pharisees knew He was Messiah at this point but did not want this kind of Messiah).
3. Finally the judgments Jesus pronounced to that genersation because of the national rejection of Jesus (individuals believed but the leaders rejected)
Matt. 12: 41-45:
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
So the blasphemy of the Spirit ( or railing agains tthe spirit) could only be done when Jesus performed miracles and someone accuses Jesus of being demon possessed.
there is more and more context that could be given, but I hope this helps.
The Gospels aren't for Christians? Darn, I was counting on John 3:16.
Last edited:
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Does a christian. born again, justified and made alive in Christ really Need John 3: 16?
That's interesting that OSASers can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit nor forsake Jesus. What a convenient doctrine!
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
Oh yeah, they don't need good works either.
James 2:20 (NKJV)
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--
Oh yeah, they don't need good works either.
James 2:20 (NKJV)
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Similar threads
