Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

Demons believe, but are not saved. You maintain that you must continue to believe to remain saved, yet belief doesn't save you.

Belief, does save.....

“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..." Acts 16:31​

So, if you want to insist the believing that the demons do is the same believing that saved people do then you have no choice but to conclude demons are saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Justified is made innocent. And that is never undone in the child of God. Never.

Well, thank you for that circular argument, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

These and more . . .

You have my permission to think what you want about osas.

 

[Ezra]

that passage say Osas is true.

ya know in scripture it does not say once saved always saved. it does say we may know we have eternal life, it also says that our salvation is kept by the power of GOD ! there are plenty of scriptures that shows how secure we are in HIM. neither does scripture say thus saith the Lord you can lose it . if were abiding in sin with out repentance remorse no conviction ==odds are YOU never was saved

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you graduate. From your initial belief in the truth of the Gospel, to the faith of Christ in you.

Your believing after that is one of two things.

Either your believing is the manifestation of Jesus Christ in you, and your believing is the faith of Christ being revealed through you.

OR,

Your believing is your own doing, something you yourself do, apart from Christ, and, well, we all know how inconsistent people are in their moods and thoughts from day to day.

This is the significance of the "faith of Jesus Christ". It's not yours, it's His. We are inconsistent, but Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever!

He doesn't change.

Then it's obvious Jesus gives crappy believing to some people. Why can't he do a better job of 'believing' for some people?

 

[marks]

Then it's obvious Jesus gives crappy believing to some people. Why can't he do a better job of 'believing' for some people?

I'm reading your recent set of posts. It seems to me maybe you might consider what else you may be doing with your time.

Just a thought.

 

[marks]

You have my permission to think what you want about osas.

And you have my permission to meditate on these passages . . .

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

These and more . . .

Actually, I think you would really benefit from learning the meaning of these.

 

[marks]

but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;

How could one have such knowledge?

Seriously! How?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, thank you for that circular argument, lol.

Do you know what a circular argument is? It's using the assertion as the proof.

What I've done is made an assertion, and then supported it with other evidence. So this is not actually a circular argument.

Only another empty and false accusation, given instead of a real response.

Empty and meaningless.

Vanity, vanity, all is vanity!

 

[Taken]

Hi, thank you for the greeting :)
If I may asked what is eternal, damnation...
SO God will only be a God to some and not to others? Didn't God divorce a group of people that He had chosen because they did not obey His commands?

From my perspective of study:
God is Eternal, without beginning or ending.
God Knows ALL things.
God Knows Every single thing He "intended" to Create, "Before He Created it"...
Which is to say "regarding" the Man-KIND of creature He Created:
* God KNEW, what every Man-KIND of thing would LOOK LIKE, BEHAVE LIKE, THINK, SAY, CHOOSE To DO and CHOOSE To NOT DO.

Man-Kind, begins with Type of Reliance on the Female...A reliance for the developing "creature" to DEPEND on the Female, (In her womb, separated by a Placenta, that feeds the developing creature and removes waste from the developing creature.
Once the creature is naturally born, (exits the womb) and Disconnected from the Placenta...
That developed creature is an Individual Living Creature....and Totally IGNORANT of God. (Doesn't Know OF Him, About Him, Believe IN Him, Love Him).

Point is God Already "KNOWS", who WILL "Choose" Him, and who WILL "Reject" Him.
WHO Doesn't "KNOW"; IS the Individual.

Gods Direction, IS; TO; Those WHO Believe AND Have "MADE" their Choice To "Choose" God...(with a Heartful Thought Confession)...
To Open their mouth TO WILLING LISTENERS, and Speak the Word of God.

Men all around the World, Who believe, Who have Heartfully Confessed Belief....ARE "established" SAVED...and DO Speak the Word of the God about the World.

Before, the Ending of THIS WORLD, as "we know it"... Gods Own Angel SHALL Supernaturally Preach the Word of God to the Entire WORLD.
Rev 14:
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Eternal DAMNATION - IS the Consequence FOR Hearing the Word of God and Freely Choosing TO REJECT God.

The Consequence - OF Eternal Damnation IS:
* A BODY of mankind IS NEVER Risen "with" Eternal Life IN the Body.
(It shall be risen, to stand in Judgement).
* A SOUL of mankind IS Never Restored (back to Good) ie SAVED. It's LIFE (Gods Breath) departs the SOUL, and Returns to God.
* A SPIRIT of mankind IS "natural", and subject to Death, when it's Body DIES.
(A natural spirit of mankind IS his TRUE thoughts in his heart. Opposed to the Thoughts in his Carnal Mind.)
A Converted man (A believer, who HAS confessed his "natural" heartful belief...
IS soul saved, AND His "natural spirit IS REBORN, with Gods SEED, and fed, GODS TRUTH, ie Gods Word."
This NEW, SPIRIT of a man, IS NOT Subject to DEATH, and is the Precise "thing", that is
CALLED...BORN AGAIN.
* ^ That does NOT APPLY to a man WHO has chosen to REJECT GOD.

The Consequence - Eternal Damnation IS:
* The mans body of flesh, without its life (which IS BLOOD) shall be destroyed. (Burned)
* The mans soul, WITHOUT (Gods Breath) shall be destroyed. (Burned)
* The mans natural spirit was never "REBORN", and shall be destroyed with his body. (Burned).
^ That IS the MERCY of God upon a man WHO Rejected Him.

The JUSTICE of God - upon a man WHO Rejected Him.
"At LEAST" 1,000 Years, (some longer) a mans "SOUL" shall REMAIN, (alive with Gods Breath, AFTER the death of his Body).
An ALIVE SOUL, "Separated FROM the Surface of the Earth, Separated FROM Loved ones, Separated FROM GOD, Separated FROM
Gods Beauty WE enjoy ON the Surface of the Earth, and our Sight of the Beauty of the lower Heavens (skys)....
THEY SHALL Experience, Darkness, Heat, Stench, Thirst...with NO Relief, No Comfort.
THEIR Senses...
Speech, Smell, Taste, Hearing, Seeing, Touch...shall be fully intact...IN HELL.

THE AGONY of such men - IS No Relief for the TIME Period ...and they WILL absolutely KNOW, God IS God, and they Will forever Be Separated from God and their Loved ones.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

I hope I can add to this thread...
Call me Cor. I am just a learner...

The question I first would asked What does the Bible say one is saved from....
And what does that mean to you? Add one scripture to support your point.

Nice to have you with us.

What does the Bible say one is saved from?

The Bible speaks about being saved from a lot of things. Mostly about dangers and harm in this life on earth and from the grave. It also speaks about being saved from sin and from the wages of sin, being cast into the lake of fire (let’s call that hell here) spoken of in the book of Revelations. Under this thread, we are talking about the latter.

Tong
2956

 

[Tong2020]

The statement you are responding to, like you say, no one is saying that, but the statement itself is flawed.

Believing, even once, is not equal to "lip service". That merely slanders those who believe we are justified the same as Abraham, who believed God (in that moment) and it was counted to him for righteousness.

We are saved in faith in the same way as faithful Abraham. He was righteous BEFORE being circumcised, before offering Isaac.

But does anyone care about their fallacies once exposed? I very RARELY see that.

Much love!

It’s not like repenting unto God and Jesus Christ and believing in God and Jesus Christ is a choice that the Christians makes everyday or every time.

Tong
R2957

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is not a good analogy.

Saying it is not good does not explain why it is not good.

Okay you want to know why for me it's not a good analogy?

Wrangler said: ↑
The analogy I use is that we are all drowning. Jesus is the Savior and throws us a life preserver and we can have total trust and faith in him always providing this means of our survival. However, the burden is always on us to actually receive the life preserver. And it is not merely the initial holding on to the life preserver that matters. What matters is constantly holding onto the gift of salvation. Otherwise, we risk our survival with every release of the gift, e.g., turning our back on him.

First, that is not how Jesus saves. What He gave us is not a life preserver, but life itself, even eternal life. Another is that, such way would not work. We can see that in the case of the children of Israel. They have God, unlike the rest of the world. All they have to do is hold on to God and as you say, keep on holding on. He gave them His good and holy Law. Well, you know what happened. They failed. The children of Israel is testimony to the truth of what God said is fallen mankind, that every intent of the thoughts of his heart is evil continuously, even from his youth. Also, it gives testimony of the weakness of the flesh. And what is the way? Jesus is.

If in these last days, in the new covenant, if what Jesus did is only throw a life preserver, then He had not really saved you but only helped you out and it’s up to you to actually save yourself or not. You may think you can prevent yourself from drowning. But when a great tsunami comes,......in the likes of that which came to the apostles and the early church, and perhaps even surpassing that, well,.....In all likelihood, we will fail. For if in simple temptations our weak flesh give in and sin, what more in great temptations, such as instant and lasting riches, fame, and glory, such as escaping long and painful torture and great physical and emotional suffering, such as escaping certain death, you, family, love ones?

If you try to meditate of the truth that the elect of God are citizens of heaven and not of this world, you might understand that Jesus saves you by taking you out from where you are drowning and is bringing you to safe grounds, that is home, where you will forever be safe and be kept safe, and spend life with the family of God and God.

Tong
R2958

 

[Tong2020]

No. Stop presuming you are right and I have the burden to figure out how. You have no argument to support your position.

I demonstrated 2 metaphors to support my position, necessary action after being saved. You got nothing.

I got Jesus Christ. And He sure ain’t nothing but is in fact everything to me.

I do have argument and scriptures to support it.

Tong
R2959

 

[Ferris Bueller]

ya know in scripture it does not say once saved always saved. it does say we may know we have eternal life, it also says that our salvation is kept by the power of GOD ! there are plenty of scriptures that shows how secure we are in HIM.

Anti-Osas agrees with this. The scriptures are very clear about these. Osas just thinks they have to mean Osas, and can only mean Osas.

if were abiding in sin with out repentance remorse no conviction ==odds are YOU never was saved

In most cases that is probably true, IMO. But not all the time.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So tell me. What is the difference of Calvin's definition of "predestination/elect" as opposed to the definition of Scripture?

Calvin says you are elected on the basis of being predestined/predetermined to be able to believe.

Anti-Calvinism says you are elected on the basis of having faith in God, and that the believer is predestined/predetermined to be conformed to the image of Christ in adoption.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you can't do it therefore, it is Jesus ALONE who indwells a believer can endure and believe to the very end and live a holy life, correct?

And He stays there—me in Him, and Him in me—as long as I continue to believe......

As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.​

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27...remain in him.

28And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
1 John 2:24-28

It doesn't matter if some think the true believer will always believe, and some think they can stop believing. The important thing is that we all agree that you must believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. And that we do that!

 

[Corlove13]

Which people??

hi,
My guess is most of the people who say one is not saved by effort..
We know no one earns their salvation...
For salvation, [in my opinion] meaning reconciliation [by being quickened together with Christ] in Ephesian 2:8....people are dead in trespasses and sin......And can't make themselves alive.
But accepting Jesus as king through the Help of God....made them alive....

But after one has been reconciled by His death How does one know how they are saved by His life? Well in my opinion again this passage is the answer: It says work out your salvation. It says walk in the Spirit....
The question I think I'd asked was can your reward be your salvation. Then can God reconcile us by His death so that we might be saved by His Life (zoe)?.......

Living by the Spirit is not effortless....
Putting away the deeds of the flesh are not done without us OBEYING the Spirit.

 

[Corlove13]

From my perspective of study:
God is Eternal, without beginning or ending.
God Knows ALL things.
God Knows Every single thing He "intended" to Create, "Before He Created it"...
Which is to say "regarding" the Man-KIND of creature He Created:
* God KNEW, what every Man-KIND of thing would LOOK LIKE, BEHAVE LIKE, THINK, SAY, CHOOSE To DO and CHOOSE To NOT DO.

Man-Kind, begins with Type of Reliance on the Female...A reliance for the developing "creature" to DEPEND on the Female, (In her womb, separated by a Placenta, that feeds the developing creature and removes waste from the developing creature.
Once the creature is naturally born, (exits the womb) and Disconnected from the Placenta...
That developed creature is an Individual Living Creature....and Totally IGNORANT of God. (Doesn't Know OF Him, About Him, Believe IN Him, Love Him).

Point is God Already "KNOWS", who WILL "Choose" Him, and who WILL "Reject" Him.
WHO Doesn't "KNOW"; IS the Individual.

Gods Direction, IS; TO; Those WHO Believe AND Have "MADE" their Choice To "Choose" God...(with a Heartful Thought Confession)...
To Open their mouth TO WILLING LISTENERS, and Speak the Word of God.

Men all around the World, Who believe, Who have Heartfully Confessed Belief....ARE "established" SAVED...and DO Speak the Word of the God about the World.

Before, the Ending of THIS WORLD, as "we know it"... Gods Own Angel SHALL Supernaturally Preach the Word of God to the Entire WORLD.
Rev 14:
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Eternal DAMNATION - IS the Consequence FOR Hearing the Word of God and Freely Choosing TO REJECT God.

The Consequence - OF Eternal Damnation IS:
* A BODY of mankind IS NEVER Risen "with" Eternal Life IN the Body.
(It shall be risen, to stand in Judgement).
* A SOUL of mankind IS Never Restored (back to Good) ie SAVED. It's LIFE (Gods Breath) departs the SOUL, and Returns to God.
* A SPIRIT of mankind IS "natural", and subject to Death, when it's Body DIES.
(A natural spirit of mankind IS his TRUE thoughts in his heart. Opposed to the Thoughts in his Carnal Mind.)
A Converted man (A believer, who HAS confessed his "natural" heartful belief...
IS soul saved, AND His "natural spirit IS REBORN, with Gods SEED, and fed, GODS TRUTH, ie Gods Word."
This NEW, SPIRIT of a man, IS NOT Subject to DEATH, and is the Precise "thing", that is
CALLED...BORN AGAIN.
* ^ That does NOT APPLY to a man WHO has chosen to REJECT GOD.

The Consequence - Eternal Damnation IS:
* The mans body of flesh, without its life (which IS BLOOD) shall be destroyed. (Burned)
* The mans soul, WITHOUT (Gods Breath) shall be destroyed. (Burned)
* The mans natural spirit was never "REBORN", and shall be destroyed with his body. (Burned).
^ That IS the MERCY of God upon a man WHO Rejected Him.

The JUSTICE of God - upon a man WHO Rejected Him.
"At LEAST" 1,000 Years, (some longer) a mans "SOUL" shall REMAIN, (alive with Gods Breath, AFTER the death of his Body).
An ALIVE SOUL, "Separated FROM the Surface of the Earth, Separated FROM Loved ones, Separated FROM GOD, Separated FROM
Gods Beauty WE enjoy ON the Surface of the Earth, and our Sight of the Beauty of the lower Heavens (skys)....
THEY SHALL Experience, Darkness, Heat, Stench, Thirst...with NO Relief, No Comfort.
THEIR Senses...
Speech, Smell, Taste, Hearing, Seeing, Touch...shall be fully intact...IN HELL.

THE AGONY of such men - IS No Relief for the TIME Period ...and they WILL absolutely KNOW, God IS God, and they Will forever Be Separated from God and their Loved ones.

God Bless,
Taken

Hi, good stuff...I have to read in the mornting....
So you may have answer my question...In my thought and I'm not sure....God is not a God of the dead but the living...so the only way to be raised is with "zoe" life...which is in His son?
To have it is to know...of a clear entrance before God.....and not to know it, Idk..it may be like barely escaping the flames of fire.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm reading your recent set of posts. It seems to me maybe you might consider what else you may be doing with your time.

Just a thought.

You're not going to answer my question?