Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

What I'm doing is attempting to bring into focus some Scriptures which you don't seem to believe.

I do believe them. I believe them in the context of all that the Bible says about the subject. That's called 'rightly dividing the word of God'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

my trusting in Christ keeps me connected


See? You take the credit for keeping yourself.

Paul said trusting in Christ is not a boast of self righteous work (Romans 3:27, Romans 4:5). I think maybe you're the one who doesn't believe scripture, not me.

 

[Grailhunter]

Such WERE some of you, but are you thinking this means those who don't have these behavior issues still?

The "easier" way to understand it in context in that these sins can be committed by any Christians. These are all Christians and these are all sins that can prevent you from going to heaven. And these sins desire these Christians...you must master them...lol...not them master you. Do not become those sins. The lady that prostitutes herself once to feed her children is not the same as one that makes a career out of it. Alright...you are going to love this! The lady that prostitutes herself once...is not labeled a prostitute and and lol When she stands before Christ...she might even be commended. Judgment Day is not sentencing day...it is a day of Judgment where all thing are considered.
But Paul did not list these sins as a joke...it is serious business.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's like saying, He's not holding on to you, you are holding on to Him.

No, not quite, lol.......

...found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith. I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.​

 

[marks]

Paul said trusting in Christ is not a boast of self righteous work (Romans 3:27, Romans 4:5). I think maybe you're the one who doesn't believe scripture, not me.

I didn't say you are boasting, but you ARE taking credit. You declare the responsibility to "Keep yourself saved" to be yours, as you "Must continue to believe to continue to stay saved", so you put this on yourself. Boast, don't boast, whatever, but you make it you job, and the Bible tells us God makes it His job.

Jesus is unto us santification.

Who will sanctify you . . .

He is faithful, He will do it . . .

Who is able to present you faultless . . .

So many passages!

He has predestinated His people to be conformed to the image of His Son, but you think you can come and go as you please? It doesn't work that way.

Having joined with Him, we're on for the ride. And it's going all the way home!

Much love!

 

[marks]

The "easier" way to understand it in context in that these sins can be committed by any Christians.

And more easier to understand in a broader context still, in what justification is. It is not only declaring us innocent, but He also recreates us as innocent beings, having been separated from the flesh, which is where sin lives. Sin does not live in the spirit of God's spirit child.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

It's okay if you want to believe that the forgiven person will always retain his forgiveness. The important thing is you know that the believer must believe all the way to the end and live a holy life.

And what then are you teaching there that one must to be saved or is the way to be saved?

Faith (continuous) and works (holy living)?

Faith (continuous) and self righteousness (holy living)?

Tong
R2895

 

[marks]

No, not quite, lol.......

...found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith. I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.​

Of course you'd want it in your life, you who have tasted and seen He is good.

The point is, He took hold of you, those who are His children. Silly to think you're just going to wriggle out. But that's not what we do anyway, Paul is our pattern here, as we also take hold of what Christ captured us for.

He took hold of you, but you consider more important that you go on to take hold of Him, That's REALLY the part that works or not! And that should you fall short, He's what, just going to throw you back?

He who has promised, I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you? How long does never cover?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

This verse is true AS IS. No changes needed.

Of course it's true AS IS. Who doesn't believe that the SONS OF GOD (not fallen sons of God) will be like him when he appears? No former believer has any promise of God......except the promise of "judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries." Hebrews 10:27

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If the idea is taught in scriptures, there are other scriptures that clearly speaks about it. Don’t you have any other scripture references to give?

see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25
​

John is saying you can take it, or you can leave it. But if you leave it, you don't get to remain in the Son and the Father and in the promise of eternal life. I'm good if you think the real believer will always keep the word in them and believe to the very end. The important thing is you believe that the word must remain in a believer all the way to the very end.

Now, please don’t change the issue. I was asking for you to show scriptures that speaks about the idea of giving up forgiveness of sins.

The scriptures you gave speaks about the word or the gospel they have heard.

Tong
R2896

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Would you say you were risen with Christ when you believed Him back then?

If not, when do you think you were risen with Christ?

If it was not in the past, how about today, would you say you are risen with Christ today? And if you say you are, then as the passage says, you shall also appear with him in glory. Do you believe that or not?

Now if you believe that, do you take that as being real or just only in your mind?

Let me guess. Considering your belief, that you could lose your salvation anytime you decide to reject Jesus Christ, the matter of having risen with Christ is just in the mind and not real. Well,...

The indwelling Holy Spirit is a real thing. The important thing here is that a person continue to believe so that the Holy Spirit remains in them. I don't care if someone thinks that will automatically happen. The important thing is that it does.

The issue is not what is important to you or not. The issue is also not whether the indwelling Holy Spirit is real or not.

So let me take you back to the issue about having risen with Christ.

Would you say you were risen with Christ when you believed Him back then?

If not, when do you think you were risen with Christ?

If it was not in the past, how about today, would you say you are risen with Christ today? And if you say you are, then as the passage says, you shall also appear with him in glory. Do you believe that or not?

Now if you believe that, do you take that as being real or just only in your mind?

Tong
R2897

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I do believe them. I believe them in the context of all that the Bible says about the subject. That's called 'rightly dividing the word of God'.

You have to add your own caveats to declare you believe them. You do not accept them as they are written.

 

[marks]

I'm pretty sure if you checked it out you'd find my summation of the original Osas teaching to be very accurate. I gots the feeling you didn't know about the original Osas teaching from the 1500's.

Forget about OSAS stuff, look at the Bible.

Get ahold of what it says, believe it, and in believing, find life in Jesus Christ, the true eternal life that is now. To rest in Him.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

And more easier to understand in a broader context still, in what justification is. It is not only declaring us innocent, but He also recreates us as innocent beings, having been separated from the flesh, which is where sin lives. Sin does not live in the spirit of God's spirit child.

Much love!

This one here confuses the tar out of people.
Justification is a verdict of innocent. But it takes more than that...judicial term...you can be declared innocent but that does not mean you are not going to go out and commit a crime.
Wouldn't it be nice if we were recreated as innocent beings? And of course separated from the flesh.
It is not a light switch. At least not most of the time.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. The new Christian and the senior Christian.
One of the early names for Christianity was the Way....the Way, not the Arrived.
There are several elements of Salvation...Forgiveness of sins, do to substitution, propitiation, redemption, grace, Adoption, and then sanctification. They all tie into one another.

Any Christian new or old can sin. Sin is sin...but committing a sin does not separate us from salvation or Christ.
But if you become that sin, you separate yourself. Not that you cannot repent...but as many have found...the further you go down that path...the harder is to even repent, much less come back.

Whether you agree with me or not...the one thing that you need to consider is the dangers of lifestyles sins. Nothing is set in stone, but if you go down that path...there is a possibility that you will not come back. Again I keep saying you...but I am not saying you...LOL

 

[marks]

I'm pretty sure if you checked it out you'd find my summation of the original Osas teaching to be very accurate. I gots the feeling you didn't know about the original Osas teaching from the 1500's.

You've gots lots of feelings it seems.

There have been all sorts of things taught over the centuries.

Lets focus on the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Much love!

Exactly the day of redemption....?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<I award everyone's patience that has dealt with you two, because you guys have absolutely no regard or respect for the scriptures.>>>

WDR, may I ask, who are you sir? You sound like one who see himself high up there so far above the, I don’t know where.

This is not rocket science. The Bible...and the the examples that Christ and the Apostle set does no condone sinful lifestyles and a guarantee to heaven. Yes I am an educated Christian, but it does to take that to understand the basics of the Bible. Beyond that there is just common sense....why would a good Christian want to go to heaven, if it is full of evildoers. The proof is in the pudding.

If you just want to say that, I see no need of such malicious tone and words you said against me and @marks. I have done you no wrong that you should be doing that. Please refrain from doing such. It’s not good and pleasant. Especially if you say you are a Christian, and an educated one at that.

<<<why would a good Christian want to go to heaven, if it is full of evildoers.>>>

I don’t know of any Christian who believes that heaven is full of evildoers. What I know is in heaven will be those who were saved by God and transformed by God to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2898

 

[Grailhunter]

If you just want to say that, I see no need of such malicious tone and words you said against me and @Ferris Bueller

LOL did not say anything against Ferris.

Please refrain from doing such. It’s not good and pleasant.

Is this a complaint?

Especially if you say you are a Christian, and an educated one at that.

As far as I am concerned my patience and restraint should be commended.
Tong2020 We have crossed paths before....Predestinationist.
Definitely hard headed.
As they use to say in the old days obdurate from turning way from heresy.

 

[Wrangler]

I didn't say you are boasting, but you ARE taking credit. You declare the responsibility to "Keep yourself saved" to be yours, as you "Must continue to believe to continue to stay saved", so you put this on yourself.

AS IF there is something wrong with one living up to one’s responsibilities.