Once Saved Always Saved

[Grailhunter]

I notice you throw these verses around on copy and paste, But I wanted to know your interpretation of Hebrews 10:26-31

There are a lot of things I copy and paste...hundreds of essays I have written and also there are websites that list scriptures. What is the difference.

If someone went to church most of there life then when hard times came along they intentionally sinned multiple times, got fed up with Christianity tried to turn away from God serve anyone but God and got into Satanism, in your opinion have they blown it and cant come back will they go to hell, or do you think they could still be forgiven and go to heaven?

Not a difficult question as a whole. Christ came to earth for a mission, that mission required Him to go through the passion. A God going through the passion. Odds are good that it is going to have a high success rate.

I think the biggest problem is that people see the point of salvation as a ticket to heaven. Well, the fact is, there is a reason for Judgement Day. Salvation does not nullify Judgment Day. Regardless of what a Christian has done, Christ will weigh all things and make a judgment. And I mean all things...what is in the mind...what is in the heart...what are the circumstances...all things.

You can get into the nitty gritty of some topics that are not answerable. If Hitler found religion in the last five minutes of his life could he be saved? There are different opinions on that.

On both ends of the spectrum there are absolutes. Salvation is possible no matter who you are or what you have done.
On the other end, evil will not reside in heaven...but the depths of that evil will be determined by Christ.

A matter of the heart....if someone believes in OSAS, that belief can influence the sins they do, thinking they can get forgiveness for anything. Christ knows what they believe and what they are thinking, you can not scam a God.

 

[marks]

It seams the ones that like using the verse usually create there own standard on what's acceptable or not, I have seen him praise people that intentionally go against the verse and get so angry at people that stand by grace, I was wondering on his double standards as to how he would answer

People do reveal themselves in their words. You can't stop what's in your heart from coming out.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually, if this passage is about losing salvation, ONE SIN will do it, forever, no return.

Anyone who becomes a Christian, who commits one sin, knowingly, is forever cast out away from God. Either it means that or it doesn't.

But I think even those who say that the passage speaks of the believer being rejected by God, I've not met any who dare say that a single knowing sin after becoming a Christian causes you to be forever lost. So even in that interpretation they do not remain consistent to the passage.

Much love!

Again you are misinterpreting the scriptures.
I understand how you have gotten so messed up, because you can't interpret scriptures.
Hebrews is tough. The book as a whole is quite unique...
The book is called Hebrews but the Jews are not mentioned.
No one knows who really wrote it.
The book has several chapters on Christ being a High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek.
The book makes it clear that it is about higher knowledge...the meat...one of two books that uses the word enlighten.
And the answers to the tougher verses is not something I would think that fundamentalists would be comfortable with.

 

[marks]

Christ knows what they believe and what they are thinking, you can not scam a God.

Amen!!

There is no fooling God. He knows right now what is in my heart. And He knows already exactly how the rest of my life is going to play out.

There's no scamming God, and, there is nothing to prove to God. He needs to prove to us about ourselvs. Not the other way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again you are misinterpreting the scriptures.
I understand how you have gotten so messed up, because you can't interpret scriptures.
Hebrews is tough. The book as a whole is quite unique...
The book is called Hebrews but the Jews are not mentioned.
No one knows who really wrote it.
The book has several chapters on Christ being a High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek.
The book makes it clear that it is about higher knowledge...the meat...one of two books that uses the word enlighten.
And the answers to the tougher verses is not something I would think that fundamentalists would be comfortable with.

You only said how I can't interpret Scriptures, but you didn't say what was wrong with my interpretations. Perhaps a little exegesis may help make your point?

I think I can point to several uncomfortable people on this thread based on their word choices. But I try to ignore all that, and stay focused on the Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again you are misinterpreting the scriptures.

Are you realizing I'm addressing other's interpretation? That I don't think the verse means what I described there?

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Are you realizing I'm addressing other's interpretation? That I don't think the verse means what I described there?

Much love!

You wrote...Actually, if this passage is about losing salvation, ONE SIN will do it, forever, no return.

I see the if.
Hebrews is not talking about one sin. What it is talking about, is one of the greater mysteries of the Bible and that includes Christ's High Priesthood.
The mystery of the unpardonable sin is that point. One sin is not going to send you to hell forgiven or not. Now if that does not make sense to you we can discuss it.
I tell people to make Christ a study...from every angle because you are not going to understand scriptures unless you have an understanding of Christ's spirit. You have to study Christ.
There is not going to be any verse that is going to mean that one sin will send you to hell.
So then how can a sinful life style send you to hell?
Well I am going to paraphrase a scripture with my interpretation. In Genesis God gives us information about sin that is more than just transgression. It goes like this...Sin lays at your doorstep...its desire is for you....What does that mean? Is it a thinking entity? Desire for you. It is the affects of sin on our phycological make up and our soul.

There is a big difference between someone making a mistake and someone making it a lifestyle. There is a point where the sin becomes you. The scripture goes on to say that you must master it. We are going to make mistakes throughout our lives....It is not unfair of God to expect us to learn from our mistakes....He is not going to put up with an evil lifestyle...You, and I say you but it does not mean you personally...You have not learned anything from the mistake, if you have embrace it as a lifestyle...sin's desire for you. You have become the sin.

 

[marks]

There is not going to be any verse that is going to mean that one sin will send you to hell.

Does your comment here mean that the following is not about a Christian losing their salvation? The born again becoming again spiritually dead? The New Creation ceases to exist?

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Because there's nothing here in this verse about a lifestyle, "your sinful conversation", something like that. Just, If we wilfully sin.

So if you think the sacrifice that doesn't remain is Jesus' offering for our sins, then any sin wilfully committed, According to this passage, shuts you out from Jesus' offering, and you are no longer justified, no longer a new creation, no longer born from God.

To say this is about the Christian being cut off from Jesus' sacrifice means that it happens with any wilfull sin. I don't believe that's what it's talking about. I'm unwilling to alter the wording, "a lifestyle of wilfull sin", something like that. And I'm unwilling to allow such alterations to effect my interpretations.

I think that Scriptures correctly understood can be expressed in the very words and terms in those passages, an the other relevant passages.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Does your comment here mean that the following is not about a Christian losing their salvation? The born again becoming again spiritually dead? The New Creation ceases to exist?

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Because there's nothing here in this verse about a lifestyle, "your sinful conversation", something like that. Just, If we wilfully sin.

So if you think the sacrifice that doesn't remain is Jesus' offering for our sins, then any sin wilfully committed, According to this passage, shuts you out from Jesus' offering, and you are no longer justified, no longer a new creation, no longer born from God.

To say this is about the Christian being cut off from Jesus' sacrifice means that it happens with any wilfull sin. I don't believe that's what it's talking about. I'm unwilling to alter the wording, "a lifestyle of wilfull sin", something like that. And I'm unwilling to allow such alterations to effect my interpretations.

I think that Scriptures correctly understood can be expressed in the very words and terms in those passages, an the other relevant passages.

Much love!

This is what I mean...I have already type this out...
Hebrews is not talking about one sin. What it is talking about, is one of the greater mysteries of the Bible and that includes Christ's High Priesthood.
The mystery of the unpardonable sin is that point. One sin is not going to send you to hell forgiven or not. Now if that does not make sense to you we can discuss it.
I tell people to make Christ a study...from every angle because you are not going to understand scriptures unless you have an understanding of Christ's spirit. You have to study Christ.
There is not going to be any verse that is going to mean that one sin will send you to hell.
So then how can a sinful lifestyle send you to hell?
Well I am going to paraphrase a scripture with my interpretation. In Genesis God gives us information about sin that is more than just transgression. It goes like this...Sin lays at your doorstep...its desire is for you....What does that mean? Is it a thinking entity? Desire for you. It is the affects of sin on our phycological make up and our soul.

There is a big difference between someone making a mistake and someone making it a lifestyle. There is a point where the sin becomes you. The scripture goes on to say that you must master it. We are going to make mistakes throughout our lives....It is not unfair of God to expect us to learn from our mistakes....He is not going to put up with an evil lifestyle...You, and I say you but it does not mean you personally...You have not learned anything from the mistake, if you have embraced it as a lifestyle...sin's desire for you. You have become the sin.

Hebrews is a mystery...one that fundamentalists are going to get....the best they can do is try to change the meaning.

Back to single sins

You and I can come up with scriptures that prove how secure salvation is.
On the other end of it you have scriptures that are like these....
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

These scriptures give no if's and's or but's...they are in context. Standing alone they would seem to be as "rough" as the Hebrews scriptures. But what they do not mean is that "usually" they are not single sins. They are generally lifestyle sins. This is not the only topic that does this. Where the same person presents two sides of a theological truth. This is the religious literary style of the time period. It is not a contradiction.

 

[marks]

Hebrews is not talking about one sin. What it is talking about, is one of the greater mysteries of the Bible and that includes Christ's High Priesthood.
The mystery of the unpardonable sin is that point. One sin is not going to send you to hell forgiven or not. Now if that does not make sense to you we can discuss it.

I'm with you on this, but the passage in question says what it says.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You have become the sin.

Your are reborn a spirit child of God, a new creation, and you become sin?

He became sin, Who knew no sin, that you might become the righteousness of God in Him.

For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn of many brothers.

God has predestined His people to become conformed to the image of Christ.

Predestine - prohoridzo - boundries ahead of - God sets limits in advance to ensure His end is realized. His end for us is that we be conformed to Jesus' image.

Yet you say we might become sin?

That doesn't not seem to me to agree AT ALL with God's predestination.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm with you on this, but the passage in question says what it says.

Much love!

Hebrews...does not follow the pattern and I am not going to confuse people

 

[marks]

He is not going to put up with an evil lifestyle...

This is so true! And also demonstrative of God's plan for us.

The Chastening that comes from God

 

[marks]

Hebrews...does not follow the pattern and I am not going to confuse people

Well let's not get confused by facts!

Simply stated, the passage says what it says.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

So many questions are answered by just expanding the context a bit.

1 Corinthians 6:8-11 KJV
8) Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such WERE some of you, but are you thinking this means those who don't have these behavior issues still?

1 Corinthians 6:20 KJV
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

No. They are still admonished.

Glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, because He bought you, and He owns you.

He owns you because He wants to own you. He owns you because you've given yourself to Him to be owned by Him. Will you undo His ownership?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When you believe, you are accepting the reality of what God says. And God gives you the faith of Jesus, and you are saved.

After that . . . you assert that it is your faith that "keeps you saved".

More to point, my trusting in Christ keeps me connected to the one who keeps me saved. God's gift of faith is the evidence upon which I do that trusting.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your are reborn a spirit child of God, a new creation, and you become sin?

He became sin, Who knew no sin, that you might become the righteousness of God in Him.

For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn of many brothers.

God has predestined His people to become conformed to the image of Christ.

Predestine - prohoridzo - boundries ahead of - God sets limits in advance to ensure His end is realized. His end for us is that we be conformed to Jesus' image.

Yet you say we might become sin?

That doesn't not seem to me to agree AT ALL with God's predestination.

Much love!

Predestine is another topic. But mostly what Calvinism focuses on....which lead beliefs down the wrong path.

You said...Your are reborn a spirit child of God, a new creation, and you become sin?
Is Genesis talking about sin in the same context.
Are Old Testament sins the same as New Testament sins?
Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. What does this mean.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
What does this mean?...takes sin away from the world...It cannot mean that the whole world is saved.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
There is a meaning here....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'd suggest stop trying to insert your ideas of OSAS

I'm pretty sure if you checked it out you'd find my summation of the original Osas teaching to be very accurate. I gots the feeling you didn't know about the original Osas teaching from the 1500's.

 

[marks]

More to point, my trusting in Christ keeps me connected to the one who keeps me saved. God's gift of faith is the evidence upon which I do that trusting.

You've changed a synonym, but you haven't changed the meaning.


my trusting in Christ keeps me connected


See? You take the credit for keeping yourself.

There it is again. It doesn't work for you unless you make it work for you.

It's like saying, He's not holding on to you, you are holding on to Him. That's not what the Bible teaches.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But mostly what Calvinism focuses on....

I'm not discussing Calvinism . . .