What I know without a doubt brother.........is that the Jewish roots movement has caused many in the church to be distracted from the gospel.....and has caused many to fall into deception and error, idolizing the Jews and falling from grace into Law.....and I believe is all leading to something worse with regard to the Temple.
Israel has been attacking Gaza for decades
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I know I'm repeating myself, but we need to ears to hear what those prophecies are saying. Spiritual language of the bible is often speaking on more than one level at the same time, kind of the natural and spiritual woven into the same passage. That's why we need the Holy Spirit to rightly divide what is spiritual and what is natural and what is both. Wish I could explain it better, but it needs to be spiritually discerned. Blessings to you.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am not discussing jewish roots. So please do not go there
Jews are lost. The abrahamic covenant which promised them a plot of land had nothing to do with anyone's salvation.
I believe more damage is caused when people say God does not keep his promises.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
THERE IS NO SPIRTIUAL PROPHECY
I am not trying to yell. I am trying to highlight a spiritual truth. If we can spiritualise prophecy, we can make prophecy say whatever we want it to.
Prophecy must be taken literally.
Gods promise to Israel the nation was not a prophecy anyway, it was a gift. God said he would never forget.
Lev 26 gives the provisions for Israel to enjoy their land.. Also the punishments,
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness[i] into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.39 And those of you who are left shall [j]waste away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands;
also in their fathers’ iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.
This happened 3 times, Assyria, Babylon (see Daniel) and in 70 AD with rome.
But even then, God does not shut the door.
40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Well, you clearly aren't Jewish.
No, Judaism does not seek unity with the world. It seeks to hold its only special place as something distinct and different from other nations.
No, modern Judaism is not looking for a Messiah to save them. It's openly hostile to the idea that men need any kind of salvation that cannot be wrought by one's own hands. And frankly, it's hostile to the idea of a messiah AT ALL. Judaism associates messianics with the destruction of their country and persecution of their people.
I
(Rom 11:11) " I say then, did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid! But by their fall, salvation came to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. "
(Rom 11:12) " Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness? "
(Rom 11:13) " But I speak to you who are Gentiles- inasmuch as I am an apostle of the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry, "
(Rom 11:14) " if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them. "
(Rom 11:15) " For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? "
(Rom 11:16) " And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. "
(Rom 11:17) " But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and did become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree- "
(Rom 11:18) " do not boast over the broken branches, for you are but branches too. For if you boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root supports you. "
(Rom 11:19) You will say then: Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.
(Rom 11:20) " Well. Because of their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Be not highminded, but fear. "
(Rom 11:21) " For if God spared not the natural branches, neither will He spare you. "
(Rom 11:22) " Behold then the goodness and severity of God: Towards those that fell, severity; but toward you, God's goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also shall be cut off. "
(Rom 11:23) " And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, shall be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again. "
(Rom 11:24) " For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more appropriately shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"
-------------------
This is the very, very, short generalized answer..........if I can manage to encircle the Bottom Line.
Paul knowing that even under the OT, only a remanent in each generation were being saved. The rest were being cut-off in each previous generation, as branches of the national olive tree of God's salvation' the only tree at that time for salvation.. Most never were imputed righteousness to salvation...however.
Paul then continues to say that opening up the gospel of the NT to non-Israelite tribes, to all peoples, has made his 'nation's people' jealous (hardened their hearts in the process) (verses 11 and 14) and he hopes that SOME (only some - verse 14) will be saved under the Gospel of Christ and the Kingdom. And those who do come to Christ will come most certainly will, with a greater zeal for God as the rest of the nations (verse 24).
Paul is saying that there in no more national Israel. There is still ONLY one tree of life for ALL Nations, of branches from the previous and now forgotten natural tribes, and with the grafting in of other nations and tribes, these branches are now considers ALL THE SAME.
All people including his own countrymen are of the same status as other nations. All are 'reset' to the same spiritual status. No difference between Jew and non-Jew. Just look at 70 AD to prove this point. God got rid of national Israel and its temple, period; and all ancestral records were all deliberately destroyed to foot stomp this intention of God.
Paul then warned that if many branches were cut-off, from his people, it can also happen to you,(now get this point) any Non-Jew (not just of a nation, on a personal level) AND by inference ALSO those NEW Jews (not of any now extinct tribe of Israel) of Paul's time under grace/NT. They are all considered the same in the eyes of God, no more chosen special people of specific tribes.
And in Verse 18-22, those prophetic words as a warning did and still is coming true today, and tomorrow. Paul knew that what happened to his people will also happen to the rest of humanity on a personal level NOT of any tribe or national level. The 'you' Paul is speaking to is really to all peoples, of the other nations in the world, and inferred to a minority of his people that went into the other nations during Paul's generation and many assimilated there, and their record of ancestry died with them.
Yes, there is still only a remnant of people that were saved in Paul time, and being saved, remaining on the tree of life, from Paul's time, and the next ones, today, and tomorrow. Nothing has changed on the tree of life for salvation.
Most people since Paul's time were cut-off and are still being cut off the tree due to their unbelief and unfaithfulness. Today, we did not fair any better that those of the OT Israelites and Hebrews. Only a remnant of souls have been added to the tree of life in each and every generation.
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Israel is Israel. Do you have a map? Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called ISRAEL! The Land of the Bible.
Mat 24:23-27
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Thanks for your reply brother. There is a distinction between the "Israel of God" and "Israel after the flesh." Paul wrote that the natural born Jews/Israel are loved on account of the patriarchs, though they be enemies for the gospel's sake. And that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. I got to know Jewish people quite well during my years working in a Jewish health care facility and can tell you that some even prophesy. Many do have an idea of their ancestry due to oral information being passed down to each succeeding generation, though I know also that many have mingled with the nations where they were scattered. (That can be seen, because Jews in China have a Chinese appearance, Jews in Europe look European, etc.)
But I don't think we can consider that the Jews/Israel no longer exist in the natural sense.....just that spiritually speaking, as far as the gospel is concerned, there is no more Jew or Gentile, male or female.....and that "now we know no man after the flesh any longer"....and "the flesh profits nothing". I tend to think in terms that they occupy a unique but not enviable position....they are in a kind of limbo....stuck between belonging to God and not. (Until/unless they turn to Christ.) It makes my heart ache for them...I can understand how Paul could almost wish himself accursed to see them saved.
Well, this is a long subject Liz....
And of course there is a difference between the nation of Israel and the spiritual seed of Israel. I deliberately did not bring that into the discussion because it would cause confusion, and I see it has again.
Jews of Paul's time have all but vanished, literally and by design. And then of course blood lines mean nothing today. Even many in Paul's time of Judea were not of the blood line of Judah, many, many were actually Edomites. So that is just one thing to consider.
Another, is that these Jews you have been acquainted with, as I , and others, are not of even the natural physical Judahites. They are from the converted Khazarians of the 800-1000 AD era. ..and there's much more to these words...And they cannot find their roots in Judea no matter how they argue their case. I'll been through all this for many years now. These are well meaning people as all of us, although do not be fooled believing they are of Judea. They are not. They are Khazarians in the main, the Ashkenazi jew. Many are raised to believe they are still 'chosen' etc, and I firmly believed they are being fooled and some then possess a mental attitude of superiority - itis a mental sickness.
This is one area of scripture that is all still in many knots...confusion over pertinent scripture, the historical record and the reality of today...of who these people really are...and this subject must be studied carefully and not take lightly, especially for granted in what you have been lead to believe.
Google “Israel shooting children”
https://tinyurl.com/4vw39bv2
Google “Israel illegal settlements”
https://tinyurl.com/3smh4nv6
Google Israel destroying Palestinian fish boats “”
Israel destroying Palestinian fish boats - Google Search
OCT. 2, 2018 4:16 P.M.
JERUSALEM (Ma'an) -- As Israel threatened to raid and demolish the Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar at any moment since the evacuation period ended, Israeli settlers stormed the village and flooded the area with wastewater, on Tuesday afternoon.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
OCT. 3, 2018 11:48 A.M.
The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza announced, on Wednesday, that 78-year-old Palestinian, Ibrahim Ahmad Nassar al-Arouqi, was shot and killed with two live bullets fired by Israeli forces on Tuesday.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
According to the ministry, since "The Great March of Return" began on March 30th, 193 Palestinians were killed, including 34 children, and 21,150 Palestinians were injured, including 4,200 children and 1,950 women, of whom 5,300 were injured due to Israeli live ammunition, while 464 of the injured were in serious condition.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
May 15, 2018 12:58 AMMass Gaza Border Clashes: 58 Palestinians Killed by Israeli Gunfire, 1,113 Wounded
The Israeli army killed dozens of Palestinians at the Gaza border Monday as the Gazans’ six weeks of demonstrations — and attempts to breach the border fence — heightened to protest the U.S. Embassy's historic move to Jerusalem.
The Gaza Health Ministry said 58 Palestinians had been killed by Israeli gunfire Monday, making it the bloodiest day of the protests by far, as Israeli security officials had predicted.
Mass Gaza border clashes: 58 Palestinians killed by Israeli gunfire, 1,113 wounded
OCT. 6, 2018 11:02 A.M. (UPDATED: OCT. 6, 2018 3:37 P.M.)
The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza confirmed that 12-year-old Fares Hafeth al-Sarsawi was shot and killed by Israeli forces in eastern Gaza City.
The ministry also confirmed that Akram Abu Samaan, 22, from the al-Shate refugee camp was killed, while Hussein Fathi al-Ruqab, 28, succumbed to wounds he sustained in eastern Khan Younis while at the Nasser Medical Center.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
OCT. 2, 2018 4:16 P.M. (UPDATED: OCT. 4, 2018 11:11 A.M.)
JERUSALEM (Ma'an) -- As Israel threatened to raid and demolish the Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar at any moment since the evacuation period ended, Israeli settlers stormed the village and flooded the area with wastewater, on Tuesday afternoon.
Israeli settlers managed to flood the area with wastewater before activists and residents were able to stop them.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
OCT. 3, 2018 11:48 A.M.
AZA CITY (Ma'an) -- A 78-year-old Palestinian was shot and killed by Israeli forces, on Tuesday, east of the al-Maghazi refugee camp in the central besieged Gaza Strip.
The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza announced, on Wednesday, that 78-year-old Palestinian, Ibrahim Ahmad Nassar al-Arouqi, was shot and killed with two live bullets fired by Israeli forces on Tuesday.
According to the ministry, since "The Great March of Return" began on March 30th, 193 Palestinians were killed, including 34 children, and 21,150 Palestinians were injured, including 4,200 children and 1,950 women, of whom 5,300 were injured due to Israeli live ammunition, while 464 of the injured were in serious condition.
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
وكـالـة مـعـا الاخـبـارية
May 15, 2018 12:58 AM
Mass Gaza Border Clashes: 58 Palestinians Killed by Israeli Gunfire, 1,113 Wounded
The Israeli army killed dozens of Palestinians at the Gaza border Monday as the Gazans’ six weeks of demonstrations — and attempts to breach the border fence — heightened to protest the U.S. Embassy's historic move to Jerusalem.
The Gaza Health Ministry said 58 Palestinians had been killed by Israeli gunfire Monday, making it the bloodiest day of the protests by far, as Israeli security officials had predicted.
Mass Gaza border clashes: 58 Palestinians killed by Israeli gunfire, 1,113 wounded
Murder, murder and more murdering, this is all the Jews of Israel know.-
I see you intentionally left out BLACK SEPTEMBER
You have no clue as to why the Palestinians are despised in the region that no one wants ....Egypt will kill them at the gates rather than left them in. Why do the lovers of the rejected avoid this subject? You would think that the deaths of 25,000 would be significant.........What's wrong with your logic? Because you have no logic .....Biden should have taken Commander into the Rose Garden, borrowed a Secret Service Glock and put one between the eyes of Commander. The same can be said of Palestinians .....
Jordan invited several hundred thousand to start a homeland. The non existing PLO, formed and attempted to overthrow the King and his house. Thousands of the guests were killed .....Thousands kicked out and sent to Gaza, thousands that pledged allegiance to the King of Jordan, now live in Jordan .......imagine that ......the survivors of the attempted overthrow of a real government were sent back to Gaza. Jordan would done the world a favor and executed what remained. Buried them in a mass grave. Yet you avoid the truth about the rabid dog that should have been shot in the Rose Garden or buried in the mass grave in Jordan ....selective history made up by the illiterate, intentionally to create a history that leans anti semitic ..... 25,000 of your heroes are buried in a mass grave in the sand of Jordan .....They should have wrapped up and airdropped in Gaza.
Pity .....25,000 you avoid telling the truth about ....What's wrong, not on your list?
Question arises concerning the Jews that were not exterminated or enslaved by the Romans. There are rumors the remaining Jews around the City decided to not reveal the truth about the actual sites where Jesus was at. Where the tomb was located. Jews never left the region, never left the city. You can assume the remaining Jews were simply melded into the population. But does the bloodline actually disappear? Depending on the Romans in the entourage that sought locations and relics .......Sites would have not been that hard to reveal.
This is like putting together the aftermath of the Little Big Horn. One side completely wiped out. Yet some Indians watching from a distance.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
as for the city, The historian Josephus wrote about it after the siege of jerusalem. In his words. he said they had destroyed the city so severely you could not even tell there was a city there before. And the only thing standing was the fortress (Antonia)
so I doubt any jews stayed in the city that was no longer there.
No need to guess where Jesus will return. He told us.
Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
How can you destroy a city entirely? I know what was written ......But the reality is somewhere in between. The West wall is the Roman fortress and the Romans occupied that for years afterward. Jews were left behind. Contradicting that is the puzzle. If all Jews were taken ......who was there to direct Constantine's wife on her expedition to locate holy sites and find relics? If the entire city is destroyed to the ground. How can there be sites for tourists to see today? The historian Josephus was wounded in the battle. At what point does his record become second person? Truth is that all buildings were not destroyed and all Jews not removed .......some escaped before the City was surrounded and the siege began. They returned after the Romans started the siege on the last group of Jews nearby .....People that escaped before the siege, people on business outside the city before the siege on trips ....There are hundreds of reasons Jews were not all killed during the siege. There were hundreds of reasons Japanese returned after the bombs were dropped. Those cities were almost vaporized. Tokyo and Dresden unrecognizable .....But they are still there. So because a historian made a statement is not absolute .....Someone had to guide the entourage of Constantine's wife on her journey .......Roman Soldiers are not the answer.
Jews never left the area .....They were always there or nearby ....The city wasn't an archeological relic ......It was an active site, The Roman fortress kept the remnants active. People hang around for the benefits of the Roman Fortress. One of the ways to make a living. Supplying the fortress .....Go to any active military site in the word today ......A lot people make a living off a base ....That Fortress is active. The fortress needed neary support. That support came from anyone living in the shadows .......remnant's of the JEWISH and Arab populations ....Jews were always there.
I've heard what is said of the Khazars but don't know a whole lot about the subject. There is just so much information and disinformation out there and it's all too much for me to try and sort out. But I know the Lord's calling and who He sent me to though, and what He taught me, and things He did from time to time. Something in my heart knows who they are. And He promised not to make a complete end of them.
He speaks to us in parables. We need ears to hear.....need the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Jesus chided His disciples for thinking He was talking about physical bread.
Liz, I do not want to burden you with all this, truly! And you do not owe me another reply after my post here.
Just set some time aside and just consider a couple of things as it applies to what Paul said regarding the olive tree analogy for salvation, how it was transformed under the NT, and without this unwelcomed imposing 'modern Jew' concept hanging over his words that should not be there in the first place. Many have gone astray here...
1. If you said you were Jewish and asked how do you know, you might say, well my mother was Jew-ish and even my grandmother. That is the canned common answer you will always get. Beyond that non-enduring fact, some might also say, well, my mother's line goes back to Eastern Europe and Russia. And that does not say much either. Some with say well, in 1200 AD there was a gr-...grd-mother in Hungary who was a Jew. So! More of the same unsupported claims. Do you see what I'm saying here? Most, if not all will find their ancestry only found in the Eastern European countries only, and that is where the Khazarians came from around the Dead Sea. And they actually do have genealogical records stemming for these areas and nations, as we can also trace our ancestry even a thousand years or more back.
And even further, some will claim not only that they are of the Judahites of Paul's day, some will even say they are not even of a Judahite/Jew, of another tribe of Israel, like Benjamin. And Paul was of this tribe I believe. He was not really a Jew/or Judahite strictly speaking. Those of the surviving tribe of Judah were the only ones strictly called Jews in Christ's time. And Judah was only a few percent of all the 12+1 (Levi) tribes of Israel, collectively. And Abraham (from Heber -> Hebrew). Isaac and Jacob, were strictly Hebrew, not Israelites or Jews of the tribe of Judah. The Orthodox Jew today will especially claim their tribal association. Of the Levi's etc. And how?! They cannot..it is all a ruse and a big fib. The truth needs to ring out and it won't be done....I wonder why?
And anyway, what has all this to do with what Paul was speaking about, when I entered your conversation? It should have zero influence, and it still does unfortunately, and the ignorance of many, keeps it alive. And again, what has a national blood-line to do with anything Paul was saying? Actually he was saying that the national Israelite, even of the tribe of Judah, as of the many living in Judea at the time, did not count for anything special anymore regarding being chosen for salvation. That benefit and special consideration was all gone and physically all gone a couple of decades later. This brings me to my second point.
2. The Olive tree analogy cannot ever be understood clearly and correctly if we insist that in point 1 that I'm wrong and being ignorant of the truth that somehow, by some vivid imagination, these people today are still the chosen ones, these smiling and sacrificial lovely Jews are still God's chosen. And this concept cannot be supported by scripture at all. This is the problem and major hurdle to overcome...
And what does that say about what we know of scripture regarding who is a believer and the salvation for all mankind today? It is an immense distraction, this false idea of the 'modern Jew.'
Many, and maybe yourself aswell, have been pre-set, engrained and biased into thinking that when you read Paul's words of his interpretation of the OT one national Israelite personal olive tree that was transformed into the NT, all nations of all peoples - personal olive tree, you still wedge in, maybe subconsciously, a special clause and exception for people that do not even exist today. And these 'modern Jews' aren't them either!
There is NO, OT residual National Hebrew-Israelite Tree of life way of salvation today since Christ. It does not exist, It was gone completely by the ascension of Christ and the day of Pentecost.
This was one of Paul's main points. Many understood it then, and it got all confused, later, especially after the RCC provided their own interpretations of it, by injecting and parsing fake Jews who were mainly closet Edomites at the time of Christ and later, along with the 100s of thousands of converted Khazarians to the Babylonian Talmud toting Edomite- Jews, we have on our hands today.
Until this major problem is fully researched and understood, It will continue to stay in a chaotic state, as it has already played havoc and confusion in areas of our faith and spirituality.
It even makes a genuine Christian wonder who is really a genuine believer in Christ. And it even affects our eschatological views; of believing there is a separate, special future, set aside for a new future calling of 'new believers' of the non-Jewish Jews into Christ.
To me, and according to scripture, and Paul, those real Jews, of national blood-line Israel, and all other nations of non-Jews, of Paul's time and beyond, were either converted or stayed as they were in their natural state of spirituality. There is NO scripture pointing to a future hold-out by God for non-existent people. In fact, this type of wrong thinking leads to mocking his word and his plan of restoration.
Brother, I thank you, and won't argue about this. Suffice it to say I have reasons in the Lord for believing that descendants of Abraham are still around. I do agree very much that the church should not be distracted from it's mission to preach the gospel and make disciples.........everyone needs the Saviour, both Jew and Gentile alike. And Khazars too, if there be any around.
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