Zechariah 5 is imminent

[ewq1938]

Believing that Zechariah did actually see a giant written scroll, just makes a whole chapter of the Bible into meaningless gibberish.

He still wrote about a scroll. If you prefer your non-Hebrew/manuscript text of something not written there, go for it.

 

[Keraz]

He still wrote about a scroll. If you prefer your non-Hebrew/manuscript text of something not written there, go for it.

I prefer common sense and I believe the Bible does tell us what to expect as the end times unfold.
He told the Jews and He tells His faithful peoples today.

What frustrates me, is how a valid interpretation of a Prophecy, a possible/probable idea of how it could literally be fulfilled, is denigrated and rejected by those who are active on the Christian eschatology forums.
Instead of rationally discussing it, they feel it necessary to jump on it and bat it out of contention. This attitude shows how hopelessly locked into their false beliefs they are.
It's going to be tough for all who have failed to comprehend Gods Plans for our future.

 

[ewq1938]

I prefer common sense and I believe the Bible does tell us what to expect as the end times unfold.
He told the Jews and He tells His faithful peoples today.

What frustrates me, is how a valid interpretation of a Prophecy, a possible/probable idea of how it could literally be fulfilled, is denigrated and rejected by those who are active on the Christian eschatology forums.

You aren't adhering to what the passage says but instead taking something that means a rolled up scroll and changing it into a rocket. It's you that is wrong, not we others who are calling you on these bad interpretations.

 

[Keraz]

You aren't adhering to what the passage says but instead taking something that means a rolled up scroll and changing it into a rocket. It's you that is wrong, not we others who are calling you on these bad interpretations.

Sad that so many just don't see what the Prophets tell us.
Zechariah did not see a scroll, just something that looked like one. OK?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I prefer common sense and I believe the Bible does tell us what to expect as the end times unfold.
He told the Jews and He tells His faithful peoples today.

There's no common sense in believing that a translation of a verse that disagrees with literally every other translation of the verse must be correct while the rest are all wrong.

What frustrates me, is how a valid interpretation of a Prophecy, a possible/probable idea of how it could literally be fulfilled, is denigrated and rejected by those who are active on the Christian eschatology forums.
Instead of rationally discussing it, they feel it necessary to jump on it and bat it out of contention. This attitude shows how hopelessly locked into their false beliefs they are.
It's going to be tough for all who have failed to comprehend Gods Plans for our future.

Don't blame us for you thinking that something is "valid" and "possible/probable" when that is not actually the case. You think only you have any rational thoughts and no one else does. Until you humble yourself and stop acting like you alone have the truth, you will never understand. You can't expect us to take you seriously when you quote a translation of a verse that is completely different than every other translation of the verse. That reveals that the translation you're using is highly questionable.

Please show us exactly what your translation of Zechariah 5:1-11 says.

 

[Keraz]

Don't blame us for you thinking that something is "valid" and "possible/probable" when that is not actually the case. You think only you have any rational thoughts and no one else does

What is irrational, is to reject out of hand; the suggestion that what Zechariah 5:1-11, saw was a nuke missile.
Such things do exist now and they fulfil how it will fly and cause destruction. Iran has them and they are set up in the area once called Shinar.

People have to have some kind of mental blockage to reject this.
Oh yes; God did say He would blind the eyes and stop the ears of those who choose to believe false theories and doctrines.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What is irrational, is to reject out of hand; the suggestion that what Zechariah 5:1-11, saw was a nuke missile.

Because he saw a scroll. How can a scroll represent a nuclear missile? Wake up. Also, symbols do not resemble what they symbolize in reality. For example, does the beast with seven heads and ten horns resemble something that looks like a beast with seven heads and ten horns? No, not at all. Why do you think a symbol has to resemble what it symbolizes? You don't understand symbolism at all.

Such things do exist now and they fulfil how it will fly and cause destruction. Iran has them and they are set up in the area once called Shinar.

LOL. You have quite the imagination. Zechariah 5 has absolutely nothing to do with that. A scroll with things written on both sides does not symbolize a nuclear missile. Your doctrine is based on butchering text like that in an embarrassing fashion. Ask God for wisdom and consider throwing your erroneous translation in the trash while looking for a translation that doesn't turn a scroll into a barrel.

People have to have some kind of mental blockage to reject this.

You have serious mental blockage to turn a scroll into a nuclear missile.

Oh yes; God did say He would blind the eyes and stop the ears of those who choose to believe false theories and doctrines.

You have proven that with your false theories and doctrines.

 

[ewq1938]

Sad that so many just don't see what the Prophets tell us.
Zechariah did not see a scroll, just something that looked like one. OK?

Or he saw a big scroll, and used the Hebrew word for scroll. You see fire in the 6th seal even though it doesn't mention fire a single time so....

 

[quietthinker]

Zechariah 5 is imminent​

'Imminent' is a strong word. It is your choice of word. Will you take responsibility for your choice?
Will you eat your words? Would you wager?
My guess is you will reinterpret / modify to save face when your interpretations don't come to fruition.

Your pride will not allow you to admit you are in error.

 

[Keraz]

Imminent' is a strong word. It is your choice of word. Will you take responsibility for your choice?

Follow the news, do you?
See how the Islamic world has been humiliated, especially Iran, as Isael runs rings around them; destroying their proxies and killing a Hamas leader in Teheran. These things are a huge loss of face and cannot be ignored and unavenged.

Not just me but practically everyone with knowledge of Middle Eastern politics and aspirations, knows that there will come a retaliation, just as the Bible says it will. It could easily happen tomorrow, but the Lord has an Appointed Day; Habakkuk 2:3-4

Your pride will not allow you to admit you are in error.

If the Lord has given me the ability to understand the Prophetic Word, I am obliged to promote it.
If other people are still unable to comprehend it and reject even plainly stated things*; then they at least know about a way the end times could pan out.
* Like what Zechariah saw was NOT an actual scroll, which could fly and destroy houses.

 

[Jay Ross]

If the Lord has given me the ability to understand the Prophetic Word, I am obliged to promote it.
If other people are still unable to comprehend it and reject even plainly stated things*; then they at least know about a way the end times could pan out.

These two lines from your post above is very telling. The question that the members must answer for themselves is: -

Has the Lord given Keraz the ability to understand His Prophetic words?

Which you answer for us when you state in the next line, "they at least know about a way the end times could pan out."

In other words, even you are unsure as to how the End Times will pan out.

Your understanding is based on our present translations of the ancient scriptures which are not contextually accurate in their translations.

God does not state that He will cause Israelites to return to the Land of Canaan, but He does state that He will plant them in His fertile soil and will teach them about His religion based on, "Christ being the Son of God," where they are presently scattered throughout the whole earth.

Paul also told us in Romans 11 that when the 2,300 years of the Gentile Nations, acting under the direction of the Little Horn, has run its allotted time period to trample God's Sancturary and His earthly Hosts, i.e. Israel, that all of Israel will be saved.

Also, Hosea 6:1-3 tells us that the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children will not end until the end of this present fourth age of the existence of the Israelite, which occurs at the same time as the completion of the 2,300 years of the gentiles.

In Ezekiel 34 we are also told that God will enter into a covenant of peace with Israel and that He will remove the beasts from the face of the earth, i.e. Satan, the Beast and the Little Horn/False Prophet, for a period of time, after which they will be released from their prison to act during the little while period before the conclusion of the seventh age.

Keraz, you have shown on many occasions that you have no understanding of the end times, yet you act as if you do and teach on this very subject from your own ignorance.

Many members have shown you your ignorance on the subject of the End Time, yet you will not listen and only scoff at those members as if they have no understanding.

Remember, many End Time Prophecies are still sealed up until such time that they begin being fulfilled.

Goodbye Keraz, it is time for you to lay down your pen of misinformation.

 

[Keraz]

The Iranian mullahs either have or will very soon have nuclear weapons. This reality is horrifying in the context of the Iranian leadership’s fantasy of annihilating Israel.
The inspiration for this comes from their god, who is none other than Satan.

This vision involves the Islamic Shi-ite belief in the return of the Hidden 12thImam, who is the awaited Mahdi of the Muslims. He is one of two eschatological figures in Islamic theology, the other being Jesus.
Al Mahdi means “the rightly guided one” and is portrayed as coming before the end times to make the entire world Muslim. Muhammad said that the Mahdi “will fill the earth with justice as it is now filled with oppression”.

This hidden Imam is, according to Islamic tradition, due to re-appear after a period in which the Muslims suffer great persecution and calamity. It is within the realm of possibility that the Iranian leadership is thinking that they can hasten the coming of the Imam Mahdi by bringing about an increase of what they would regard as oppression of the Muslims – ”oppression” that would in reality be Israel’s defensive response to an Iranian attack. The Shi-ite Muslims especially, believe that for as long as the Mahdi remains hidden, the world will stay apostate. They are fixated on the end times and are on the constant lookout for signs of his return. This obsession shapes their life, culture and politics and as can be seen by their speeches, their approach to world affairs.

Now, in 2025, the Iranian leadership is desperate; their currency is worthless and the citizenry are in revolt. They see their only chance to retain control, is to have a victory over Israel and America. They WILL attempt it; they have to!

Bible Prophecy says what will happen:. Ezekiel 7:14 …all are ready for war, but no one goes to the battle, for My wrath is upon all of them.

Over 100 Prophesies describe this terrible Day the Lord will arise and destroy His enemies. It will be triggered by Iran attempting to fire nuke missiles at Israel, with the result as Psalms 7:12-16 and Jeremiah 49:35-37, describe.

 

[Korben Dallas]

Having been exposed to premillennialism since the late 70s so I'm pretty much immune to their endless waves of rewrites. Having said that I respect their respect for the written word and their appreciation for it's detail. Being some kind of post millennial preterist myself, we have that in common. I hate to see the term "symbolic" used to dismiss what the bible says or to say that something doesn't exist. The entire symbolic vs literal terminology is not really helpful. John says that he will "signify" these things. Jesus talks about "sign" being given. "Signs" put aside the issue of existence. They are "something", an event, a characteristic, which the person is to recognize.

Peace.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Having been exposed to premillennialism since the late 70s so I'm pretty much immune to their endless waves of rewrites. Having said that I respect their respect for the written word and their appreciation for it's detail. Being some kind of post millennial preterist myself, we have that in common. I hate to see the term "symbolic" used to dismiss what the bible says or to say that something doesn't exist. The entire symbolic vs literal terminology is not really helpful. John says that he will "signify" these things. Jesus talks about "sign" being given. "Signs" put aside the issue of existence. They are "something", an event, a characteristic, which the person is to recognize.

Is the beast with seven heads and ten horns not a symbolic entity representing something in reality? I don't understand why you don't like the word "symbolic" when there is nothing wrong with that word whatsoever. You act like the word is a synonym of the word "fictional", which it is not. Symbolic text symbolizes things that are real. But, the symbols themselves do not have to resemble what they symbolize, as some seem to think. Certainly, what the beast with seven heads and ten horns symbolizes does not resemble a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns.

 

[Keraz]

The thing Zechariah 5 saw was a nuke missile. He described it as resembling a scroll, but much bigger. The lead cover is a giveaway;- it has radioactive material in it.
Iran has these missiles and Bible Prophecy says they will attempt to use them.

What we as Bible believers and studiers of Prophecy; need to do, is to know about the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, which will dramatically change the world. We are told to take shelter, Isaiah 26:20-21, and to; Call upon His Name to be saved.

 

[Korben Dallas]

Is the beast with seven heads and ten horns not a symbolic entity representing something in reality? I don't understand why you don't like the word "symbolic" when there is nothing wrong with that word whatsoever. You act like the word is a synonym of the word "fictional", which it is not. Symbolic text symbolizes things that are real. But, the symbols themselves do not have to resemble what they symbolize, as some seem to think. Certainly, what the beast with seven heads and ten horns symbolizes does not resemble a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns.

The "symbolic v literal" framework sidetracks into questions that are not helpful. Why ask a question like if the lips and tongue of God are literal? What does that even mean?

Are the 24 elders around the throne of God symbolic? Are the 7 named churches in Asia symbolic? Are the four creatures around the throne of God symbolic? Is the Tree of Life that stands before the throne? Is the throne of God symbolic? Is the one that John sees sitting on the throne in heaven symbolic? The "symbolic v literal" framework devolves into questions that are not helpful.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "symbolic v literal" framework sidetracks into questions that are not helpful. Why ask a question like if the lips and tongue of God are literal? What does that even mean?

I disagree. In some cases it makes a difference whether something is symbolic or literal. For example, there is someone claiming that in Zechariah 5 it describes the barrel of a nuclear missile because his translation has it referring to a barrel while every other translation has it referring to a flying scroll, which is clearly a symbolic reference. So, his inability to see that the text is symbolic leads him to believe it's talking about something entirely different than what it is actually talking about. Even if it was referring to a barrel instead of a scroll, how does a barrel turn into a nuclear missile? So, understanding whether something is symbolic or literal matters.

Are the 24 elders around the throne of God symbolic?

I believe so.

Are the 7 named churches in Asia symbolic?

No. But, some think they are. Why would you think it doesn't matter if they are symbolic or not when it makes a difference how people interpret them based on whether or not they are literal or symbolic?

Are the four creatures around the throne of God symbolic? Is the Tree of Life that stands before the throne? Is the throne of God symbolic? Is the one that John sees sitting on the throne in heaven symbolic? The "symbolic v literal" framework devolves into questions that are not helpful.

How is it not helpful to know whether something is symbolic or literal when a symbolic interpretation can be very different from a literal one?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The thing Zechariah 5 saw was a nuke missile. He described it as resembling a scroll, but much bigger.

@Korben Dallas Here is what I'm talking about. Because Keraz thinks Zechariah 5 is literal and not symbolic it results in him thinking that Zechariah saw a nuclear missile instead of a symbolic flying scroll. So, how can you think it doesn't matter if something is seen as being symbolic or literal?

By the way, Keraz, why are you now saying he described it as resembling a scroll when, before this, you have been insisting that it says it resembles a barrel? How does a nuclear missile resemble a scroll? That's nonsense. The scroll is unrolled, too, because there is writing on both sides that can be read. How does that resemble a nuclear missile? Ridiculous.

 

[Korben Dallas]

@Korben Dallas Here is what I'm talking about. Because Keraz thinks Zechariah 5 is literal and not symbolic it results in him thinking that Zechariah saw a nuclear missile instead of a symbolic flying scroll. So, how can you think it doesn't matter if something is seen as being symbolic or literal?

By the way, Keraz, why are you now saying he described it as resembling a scroll when, before this, you have been insisting that it says it resembles a barrel? How does a nuclear missile resemble a scroll? That's nonsense. The scroll is unrolled, too, because there is writing on both sides that can be read. How does that resemble a nuclear missile? Ridiculous.

In my experience, the pre-milennials will change the meaning of Zech 5 on their own in a month or a year. It is not really even necessary to face the argument head on.

I guess my point is that the things that are revealed represent a continuum of reality. Some things are tangible, some things are of some otherworldly substance. Some things exist in our imagination. Perhaps some things exist only in God's imagination whatever that might mean. We are not obligated to draw the line. We will not all receive enough information to make the determination.

Was David speaking symbolically when he said: "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture." For centuries nobody knew what that meant. But one day some soldiers where gambling for the possessions of the condemned in the shadow of the cross. Probably only a few people saw that happen and probably nobody recognized it for what it was until they were inspired to write about it.

As a preterist-type myself, the signs of Revelation were meant to be recognized by those who experienced them when they happened. The number 666. Was it symbolic or figurative? That question does not have meaning. The number was recognized by those in the first century to be a sign of Nero and that the end was near. That they should be prepared to flee Jerusalem and pray that the gates were not closed on the Sabbath. A sign of the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, whatever that would turn out to be for them.