You can’t obey the Torah fully.

[MatthewG]

You can quote “with God anything possible or nothing is not impossible.”

But what does that mean? That just because God nothing is impossible you can follow the Torah law completely and without fault and be Jesus himself?

This type of thinking is beyond me, and if we need to follow the Torah law completely, which was never written to us, how does that make sense to begin with.

“Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

We are bound to sin, and therefore if you’re gonna go by the Torah, you need to sacrifice animals and what not to make amends with yourself and God but this was all to the people of Israel and not to “Matthew in America.”

 

[MatthewG]

On another side note, even though it’s to the “people of Israel” I don’t believe it to the people of “modern day Israel.” And I believe the material Israel was replaced by a spiritual Israel.

Therefore. Even people in Israel will fail at trying to obey the law fully. And thus the need of Jesus whom, fulfilled the Torah and by place faith on him, his death, burial and resurrection, one can be found with with Yahavah without fulfilling the Torah obligations.

They are good and useful and spiritual, however to use them and say you must do this or you must do that otherwise taking away from what Christ had done, is not correct.

At least just to me personally. If you are someone whom think you can fulfill the obligation, I say good luck cause I disagree in every sense of the way, though when going back and reading those things they show us and also lead us to Jesus.

Jesus was speaking to those who wanted to kill him.

“But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭38‬-‭40‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Hobie]

You can quote “with God anything possible or nothing is not impossible.”

But what does that mean? That just because God nothing is impossible you can follow the Torah law completely and without fault and be Jesus himself?

This type of thinking is beyond me, and if we need to follow the Torah law completely, which was never written to us, how does that make sense to begin with.




We are bound to sin, and therefore if you’re gonna go by the Torah, you need to sacrifice animals and what not to make amends with yourself and God but this was all to the people of Israel and not to “Matthew in America.”

Not if you put your life fully in Christ, and allow Him to transform and cleanse you..

 

[MatthewG]

If anyone fails in the Torah, in just one aspect is guilty of it all, Hobie.

James 2:10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

In the Law I have read that a person who doesn't honor their mother or father is to be put to death.

Here is what Jesus said Mark 7:10-13 - For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’and... 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’

Therefore, should we put our children to death, when they don't obey their Father and mother, and curse them instead? Some people believe that they should be put to death, but that was not following the most great commandment.

Matthew 22:34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad′ducees, they came together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Yahavah your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

No one in this life, can fully obey the Torah. They can pick parts and choose some of it, but they can't fulfill all of it and therefore a reason that a person needs to look to Yeshua, whom was basically "the walking Torah" and he nailed the ordiences of those laws on the cross with himself, and death, burial and resurrection brought forth a new covenant.



Being that of the ability to live by the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ. Through faith in Yahavha having raised his son from the dead.

 

[MatthewG]

Galatians 3:24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith.

Paul lived a life under the law, and put people to death, but he makes a revelation when he had his road side experience with Yeshua.

 

[MatthewG]

Act 8:1 And Saul approved of their killing him. On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

Paul was known as Saul, before the name change. Many people have a problem with Paul. But Paul had a revelation that it is by faith in the resurrected Son which made people right with God, and not the ordinances of the law, and if Paul was lead by the holy spirit to make these revelation. So were the other Apostles whom went to the people of Israel.

The apostle Paul was a murderer who killed Christians (Acts 8:1; 22:19-20; 26:9-11), and he was forgiven. And he ultimately was changed by the holy spirit.

 

[Soyeong]

You can quote “with God anything possible or nothing is not impossible.”

But what does that mean? That just because God nothing is impossible you can follow the Torah law completely and without fault and be Jesus himself?

This type of thinking is beyond me, and if we need to follow the Torah law completely, which was never written to us, how does that make sense to begin with.




We are bound to sin, and therefore if you’re gonna go by the Torah, you need to sacrifice animals and what not to make amends with yourself and God but this was all to the people of Israel and not to “Matthew in America.”

In Romans 10:5-8, it refers to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Torah is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience. The only reason why someone would need to have perfect obedience to the Torah would be if they are going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world, the rest of us can thankfully have our sins forgiven. God's Torah came with instructions for what to do when His people sinned, so it never required us to have perfect obedience, though someone can continue to be a doer of the Torah by repenting.

The Torah was given to Israel in order to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

We need to be set free form the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Torah, not the other way around.

They are good and useful and spiritual, however to use them and say you must do this or you must do that otherwise taking away from what Christ had done, is not correct.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20) while returning the the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from would be the way to take away form what he has done.

If anyone fails in the Torah, in just one aspect is guilty of it all, Hobie.

In which case we need to repent and to return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them to do.

In the Law I have read that a person who doesn't honor their mother or father is to be put to death. Therefore, should we put our children to death, when they don't obey their Father and mother, and curse them instead? Some people believe that they should be put to death, but that was not following the most great commandment.

Someone who curses their creators would be essentially expressing the sentiment that it would had been better if they had never been born, so the death penalty would essentially be complying with that sentiment, though that command has never been and was never intended to be obeyed.

No one in this life, can fully obey the Torah. They can pick parts and choose some of it, but they can't fulfill all of it and therefore a reason that a person needs to look to Yeshua, whom was basically "the walking Torah" and he nailed the ordiences of those laws on the cross with himself, and death, burial and resurrection brought forth a new covenant.

Our salvation is not just about having our sins forgiven, but also about being made to be like Christ. In Matthew 27:37, they nailed a handwritten ordinance to Christ's cross that announced the charge that was a against him that he was the King of the Jews, which fits perfect with the concept of the charges that were against us were nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but had nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts.

Being that of the ability to live by the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ. Through faith in Yahavha having raised his son from the dead.

Likewise, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Paul was known as Saul, before the name change. Many people have a problem with Paul. But Paul had a revelation that it is by faith in the resurrected Son which made people right with God, and not the ordinances of the law, and if Paul was lead by the holy spirit to make these revelation. So were the other Apostles whom went to the people of Israel.

The apostle Paul was a murderer who killed Christians (Acts 8:1; 22:19-20; 26:9-11), and he was forgiven. And he ultimately was changed by the holy spirit.

The way to become right with God is not by refusing to obey His instructions for how to become right with Him.

 

[MatthewG]

I can’t fully walk in the Torah. I can’t even love God and love others without looking to Jesus and what he had done and Yahavah having raised him again from the dead. My advice is as a whole people can have their freedom and pick and choose how they will live remember it’s always best to walk in the spirit, faithfully looking to Yahavah, and the resurrection of Yeshua.

“Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭23‬-‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭3‬, ‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Karl Peters]

Not if you put your life fully in Christ, and allow Him to transform and cleanse you..

Paul - you know about Paul, right? - He was the Pharisee who meet Jesus Christ on the road and wound up writing more books in the New Testament than anyone - perhaps you figured that out? And he wrote:

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Now he, a man that defines what a Christiam man looks like, gets into this more in Romans 7, with writings like:

Rom 7:16,17 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Do you read the "but sin which dwells in me", part? It is not that God does not or did not do a cleansing to come extent in Paul, and but it is apparently important that we still have our battles with the dark forces and also have an understanding the principle that sin is in us!!

Rom 7:21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

and John briefly covered this also:

1 Jn 1:18 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Now Jesus is the Truth and the Teacher, and His sheep hear His voice and are taught of God, right?

Jn 10:4 “When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
Jn 6:45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

And it is written:
Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
and
Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,...

So if a person comes to our Lord Jesus Christ, do they not learn that sin is in them, that they are doing the things they don't want to do, and because of that they seek the Lord Jesus Christ all the more, though still have that problem at this time? That is what Paul and John learned, so who thinks they don't still have that issue? Is that not the reason Jesus teaches, reproves, reasons with us, and helps us?

The thing is, that the more you listen to the Lord the more you become aware of how far off you are from being Him!!! It was Saul that Pharisee of Pharisee, that felt he was so perfect that he should go put Christians in jail, but that same man found Jesus on the road and came to know what a sinner he was. So what do we think of the quote "Christian" who fells he is not perfect because of his cleaning as opposed to considering himself to be one who needs to continue to press on to be better?

Phl 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Phl 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

And do you not know how we press on? We seek to hear our Lord Jesus Christ more and more, and hear from Him more and more, and in that we find that we fall soooooooooooooooooo far short of Him who did and said only what the Father tells Him! Or did we not read that all unrighteousness is sin??

Do you not yet understand that any word you speak or write today that you did not hear the Lord tell you to say is unrighteousness???

Yet we are counted (reckoned) to be righteous simply because we believe in Him who speaks to us, and not because of our being able to fulfill the Law or all that is written in the Torah! Of did you not read:

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”
and
Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Abram heard from the LORD and believed in the LORD; and that was reckoned to him as righteousness!!! And how much of the Torah/Bible was written at that point? It was in the first part of the first book!! Yet to any of His sheep, those who hear His voice, that is how we get righteousness, not by acts of good works, but by hearing Him by faith!! Of course is you do hear from Him you are going to try and do what He tells you, but you are going to find like Paul did, that you are doing the very things you do not want to do, because of the principle that sin is in you - right??? If not then what John wrote about the truth not being in you applies!!

Should this not be obvious to anyone who really talks with the LORD? Frankly, I don't know how it can't be??? He is regularly, like everyday called Today, teaching me, reproving me, and showing my how I do things wrong. He does that nicely, and with a friendly and loving attitude, unless I get snippy with Him. How else do you think he helps you out, if not be showing you what you didn't get right and how you can do it better? And I have been going through this for 25 years now, and I don't expect it to change even in heaven. Did we not read how Jesus learned obedience Himself, by going to the cross. Of course, Jesus was perfect and did not sin, but even He, though around from the beginning, learn when He went to the cross a just a couple of thousand years ago!

I just want to know, have you every actually reasoned with Him and found out that you were right and He was wrong??? It doesn't happen, does it? But it is worth reasoning with Him because you always wind up the winner because you learn!