Work out your own Salvation?
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Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
And vice versa. "If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall NOT remain in you, ye shall NOT continue in the Son, and in the Father. Think ye that I, John, write just to hear myself pontificate? I would not have bothered to mention the conditional "if .. then" if it were impossible for the word NOT to remain in you."
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We are not Born Again of Jesus we have been Born Of The Spirit?
Show me where we have been Born Of Jesus.
.
I know exactly who Jesus is..and we can’t discuss what you have tried to discuss with me in the past.
Who testifies Of Jesus death and resurrection the Bible or the Holy Spirit?
We are Born Again by Gods seed, His Living Witness the Living Holy Spirit?
The Living seed is the vital ingredient on how our spirit becomes Born Again?
Spirit gives birth to spirit = spirit birth that comes by divine heart revelation.
The seed must penetrate the heart/spirit..The Spirit testifies with our spirit as he’s indwelling us that we are Gods children.the seed is birthed into the heart/ spirit.of Gods child.
That’s where the Living seed takes root and grows...in our spirit/ heart, he’s Alive and Active in us? He’s not a book or the Bible he’s the Holy Spirit a Living Spirit and he’s not dead.
That’s why you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.
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Gal 3:16-19
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Remember too that Christ is the Word made flesh.
Christ is in us by His Spirit.....the Holy Spirit is HIS Spirit:
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1Pe 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
And sister, there is not much left of the new testament at all, if we just ignore and throw out all the MANY warnings because of believing we somehow dont' need them. It's chock full of warnings for good reason.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We are Born Of The Spirit?
No where in the Bible does it say we are Born Of Jesus.. @Lizbeth ..I’m still waiting for scripture...the Holy Spirit is not Jesus in person.
Our spirit is Born Again, it’s not Born Again by you posting quotes of scripture...
Becoming Born Again is a Living spirit birth, do you deny that?
We are not Born Of Jesus?
What has any of this scripture got to do with our Living rebirth?
We are birthed by divine heart revelation, not by you quoting scripture.
We are Born Of The Spirit, we are in the righteousness of Christ, and where in you has the Holy Spirit taken up residence and by whose witness would you know this?
Which means what @Lizbeth ?..let me hear you explain it please?
What warnings do a Born Again need who has been birthed in the Spirit?
If you have the indwelling Spirit in your spirit.,.tell me what warnings do we need to know, especially if one is Born Again and permanently indwelled, who keeps us abiding in the true vine?
?
And what about this.
.can’t read or has no access to a Bible
Would you die without your Bible?
Or does reading your bible keep you believing in God?
How do you know that God is who he says he is @Lizbeth ..just by reading your Bible?
I worry about you and @amigo de christo ..because you seem to think that everyone can read ,and have access to a Bible...what about those who are Born Again and can’t read,I hope you two don’t teach that you can only become Born Again by reading a Bible.
You are both very good at telling everyone to get stuck in their Bibles, yet can’t seem to answer questions regarding Born Again, you post scripture instead, which has no relation to being Born Of The Spirit.
Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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1 Peter 1:3-5 (NKJV) 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Matt. 13:18-23 tells us that one can receive the Word with joy initially, and later lose that initial faith. Would you say that those folks were never in fact born again? I would disagree.
The Salvific Moment of Faith in the Word gets one "born" again. But faith can be lost, for all of the reasons mentioned in Matt. 13. And hence, all the warnings we see in the NT. Jesus’ admonition in Matt. 24:13 that “he who endures to the end will be saved” was not intended to suggest upon being “born again” he who doesn’t endure to the end will also be saved -- Luke 8:13 notwithstanding, Rom. 11:22 notwithstanding, 1 Thess. 3:5 notwithstanding, 1 Tim. 4:1 notwithstanding, 2 Pet. 2:20–21 notwithstanding, Heb. 3:14 notwithstanding, Heb. 10:26–29 notwithstanding, 2 John 1:8-9 notwithstanding.
Christians need to be steadfast for a lifetime after their Salvific Moment of Faith. Once they’re “born again,” they can still “die” again. John 3:3’s necessary precondition to salvation is not a sufficient one. Stop reading John 1:12’s “as many as received him, to them he gave the power to be sons of God” as though it said “as many as received him, he made into automatic sons of God.” It doesn't say that!!! Compare Origen’s observation that receiving “authority to become the children of God” differs from “becoming children.” And Chrysostom: “Why did he say, not ‘made them children of God,’ but ‘gave them authority to become children of God’? Because he was shewing us that we need all diligence to preserve, unstained and untainted-throughout our whole lives - the image of sonship by adoption stamped upon us in our baptism. And at the same time he made it clear that no one will be able to take from us this authority unless we first deprive our own selves of it.”
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You are posting scripture, without any interpretation or explanation.
How do you know that this scripture is true?
How do you know that God is who he says he is?
How do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?
Posting scripture, does not mean that your spirit has been Born Again?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Don’t agree no matter how much you post scripture.
How do you know who God is?
How do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?
I am Born Again of imperishable seed, that is a Living rebirth, do you understand that scripture doesn’t birth you in the spirit, who does that ?
A Born Again can never be taken out of the true vine, because the Spirit grafted them in?
You can post scripture all day long it’s meaningless if you aren’t Born Of The Spirit.
We know in our spirit that we are Born Again, not by posting scripture.
We have been Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.
Liveth and abideth forever where?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We are Born Again when we are brought to believe in Jesus by God,then we are gifted supernatural faith to believe in our spirit.
I asked you a question @LatterRain how do you know that the Bible is true?
By whose witness do you know that the Bible is Gods truth?
You don’t believe in the Living spirit rebirth.?
What is the Living spirit rebirth?
.
Plus I ask you again, how do you know God apart from reading about him in the Bible?
By whose witness do you know that God is who he says he is?
As of yet, you only post scripture, any one can do that.
The Holy Spirit is Alive and Active, Alive and Active where in you?
The Parable of the Sower says otherwise.
I guess you think Faith in Christ, at least insofar as salvation is concerned, is a one-shot deal, not a lifelong process of working out one’s salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). I guess you think the following is the protocol: You make a heart-felt decision to “accept” Christ as your Lord and Savior at a particular moment in time, promising to surrender your will to His (as discerned through the Bible and through prayer, and maybe if you’re lucky through your pastor), and at all subsequent moments you are still saved. Once you have that Salvific Moment of Faith, salvation is guaranteed. (Let me say this again, because it is absolutely the Fundamentalist mantra: salvation is GUARANTEED.)
I think that is total nonsense! 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use the word σῳζομένοις, which is a present participle, properly translated as “being saved.” The KJV mistranslates it as “are saved.”
The OSAS crowed would readily agree that on becoming Christians their “names are in the book of life” (Phil. 3:13). If you suggest to them that their names can still be blotted out of that book by sin, i.e., “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book” (Ex. 32:33), and that “whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:15), they will tell you that their names have been written in the book of life with indelible ink.
Next comes the rationalization. Point out someone who has made that heart-felt decision to “accept” Christ but who is nevertheless a habitual sinner, and the OSAS crowd will reply that the sinner’s original acceptance wasn’t really genuine, as demonstrated by the subsequent behavior belying any decision to live a life in imitation of Christ. This kind of “by their fruits ye shall know them” argument is, of course, a slippery slope. Once you admit that moments of weakness affect even the genuinely born-again, who then lapse into sin, you are stuck with figuring out how much sin is too much.
1 John 1:8 tells us that we all sin. 1 John 3:9 tells us that whoever is born of God cannot sin. See the problem?
Who is Jesus and why did He come? What is it that you believe Jesus came to do?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Becoming Born Of The Spirit for me was indeed a one off Living spiritual rebirth, that came by divine heart revelation, once Born Again always Born Again,..I’m in the sanctification process the moment my spirit was birthed, the Holy Spirit is working in my heart and I’m becoming more and more like Jesus and a Born Again will bear Jesus fruit, because they have been supernaturally birthed, by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.
I don’t think you know what the Living spirit rebirth is, you seem to be able to only post scripture from your own understanding imo.
You posting scripture is meaningless as it’s understood from your own understanding.imo,
Now my question to you is, why haven’t you answered my questions that I asked of you, very easy to understand if you have been of the Spirit?
So, by whose witness have you been Born Of The Spirit?
Who testifies that truth and where does he witness that truth?
You can post scripture yet can’t seem to answer simple questions, regarding the Living Spirit rebirth.
Posting reams and reams of scripture doesn’t mean that your spirit is Born Again.
You don’t need to read any bible for that to happen, as it’s a Living rebirth ,which the Bible confirms many times over.
We are Born Of The Spirit a Living Spirit.The Holy Spirit who is Alive and Active in our hearts...
Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Of course it’s written,but, you need to know that the Bible is Gods truth in your heat/spirit.
So I ask again by whose witness?
You don’t seem to understand the Living spirit birth, .that can only come to you by divine heart revelation.
Which in time I’m sure God will reveal it to you, as he did me, it all takes time and it’s all in God’s timing.
Not constant study or thinking that the written word can ever birth your spirit, no matter how many times you think it does.
The Spirit witnesses the death and resurrection of Jesus to our spirit ,how else would I know I was Born Again?@LatterRain ...the Bible is confirmation of what the Spirit witness to our heart/ spirit.
I pray that you come to know the Living spirit birth, in Jesus Name,Amen.
Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is Eternal Life.
All the Born again, are "IN Christ"...
To the end of what?
So, your "to the end" is from Matt 24.
This is Jesus prophecy regarding the "Abomination of Desolation".
What that is... is the Anti-Christ, proclaiming Himself to be God.. ... and that is the "Abomination"... itself.
This happens during the 2nd half of the "7 Year" Tribulation... that is the Great Trib, and all who are in this situation, are not US.
As we are the Church...
So, Jesus is referring to those who went into the Tribulation... (Not the Church)......and they were unbelievers who entered the Trib... and became believers.
So, THEY have to "endure to the end of the Great Trib".
We, the born again, do not, as we dont have to endure to be saved, because we have already received "The GIFT of Salvation". .. WE already have Eternal life, as this is found "In Christ".
WE are not "tribulation Saints'... we are the Born Again Church.. The Bride of Christ, who were saved "in the time of the Gentiles".
If a person is in a cult they have already quenched it.
A Calvinist, for example has quenched the Spirit, and believes their inner feelings are the Holy Spirit.
"Oh i feel that...............>"
"and i feel this"....
They feel their carnal feelings and believe this is the Holy Spirit, whom they've quenched.
