With So Many Denominations...

[bbyrd009]

You win. I'm a heretic.

yeh, me too :)

 

[amadeus]

I give up.

Just keep on smiling and giving God the glory!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

My point also is that these dichotomies or paradoxes occur so often as to be unavoidable in studying the Bible and, as one poster said earlier, very many folks simply park on one side or the other of the apparent contradiction, either because they're too lazy to do the work of reconciliation or because they are content with what they have been taught or both. I recognize that some things are beyond our understanding, but I won't use that as an excuse to stop learning. Much of what I read on these discussion boards is just canned, parroted drivel. It's an awful thing to say, I know, but I fear if no one says it, the rocks might cry out. I've been an aggressive seeker for as long as I can remember, and as far as I know, it has only increased my faith in and awe of God. I want at least this for everyone else. God is beautiful beyond all description. Everyone, by the merit of Christ's very own blood, has been afforded the right to see this beauty. Moses was a man of like passions as we, and his face shone with the glory of God. I have had people tell me at times that I was glowing. This was always in the midst of a period when I was spending extraordinary amounts of time and effort in devotional exercise and selfless service. I am not a superior, but indeed a debtor to those who have not experienced this. I cannot hold my peace.

Yeah, I'm the one who pointed out the problem with denominations camping on one side of a dichotomy. I've seen this problem for years....

I hope that you don't think what I shared with you in this thread is drivel. It was straight from God to me. I have a job, so I haven't had time to read this entire thread, but I don't think you responded or even acknowledged my reply to you. I can only conclude that you did think my post was drivel, except the part about dichotomies, maybe. But that's okay because I trust that someone else needed to hear the lessons God has taught me.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you want from us. I read the OP, but after reading some of your posts, it seems that you may be wanting something from us that only God can give you. All I can do is pray, and I do pray for you!
.

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, how do you know those werent straight from satan?

You'll prosper with that view. I know I have.

My point precisely.

I don't even know what this means.

The other party of the conversation first said:
This is Paul...
I merely responded in kind.

Then harmonize this for me:

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18)
and this:
...but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. (2 Corinthians 3:5-11)

so, seems to be a lot of confusion about the law, huh? Ppl hear "it's inadequate" and misinterpret another v or two and voila, "i dont have to keep the law anymore" right? Rather than the much more practical "this is a school zone, 20 mph, but i might even do 5 or even come to a dead stop if some toddler is wandering near the curb" kinda thing, because "the law is inadequate"

Law is also holy, which even the Bible is not i guess, so this is my current working theory anyway

 

[BarneyFife]

I hope that you don't think what I shared with you in this thread is drivel.

Absolutely not. Nothing could be further from the truth. I remember your post well, actually. At the time the replies were coming so fast I could barely keep up. I thought that yours was special and deserved more than just a like or pat response and that I'd somehow remember to get back to it and, well, oops. I'm sorry about that. Also, I meant mostly drivel as far as boards in general go, not necessarily this one. I haven't had time to sample this one very well yet.

As far as what I was looking for goes, it was just an attempt to provoke thought, and perhaps get some answers "outside of the box," so to speak. So much of what we say and do is routine, don't you think? I think it's been a success for the most part, except for when I let the Paul vs. Christ nonsense spill over from another thread.

I appreciate your contribution. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Law is also holy, which even the Bible is not i guess, so this is my current working theory anyway

I find your flair for the abstract intriguing. You remind me of my shrink. lol

 

[BarneyFife]

hmm, how do you know those werent straight from satan?

Didn't see that coming. ;)

 

[bbyrd009]

Didn't see that coming. ;)

lol
satan appears as an angel of light right
plus we got dont let Him speak to us any more, or we will die!

so i mean, generally speaking, if a thought comes to me that sounds good to my ear, i gotta at least wonder

 

[BarneyFife]

the much more practical "this is a school zone, 20 mph, but i might even do 5 or even come to a dead stop if some toddler is wandering near the curb" kinda thing

Yeah, and I might just dive in where the sign says "NO SWIMMING ALLOWED" if I see someone drowning. And then, of course, there's the odd ox or two in the ditch to be considered.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you have a problem with Paul's teachings?

hey, lotta believers imagine they can Quote "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" eh

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, and I might just dive in where the sign says "NO SWIMMING ALLOWED" if I see someone drowning. And then, of course, there's the odd ox or two in the ditch to be considered.

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

we got dont let Him speak to us any more, or we will die!

And don't forget the early utterance of the New Covenant in Deuteronomy 5:29 :cool:

 

[BarneyFife]

Just try to tell somebody the New Covenant is older than the Old!

 

[marks]

hey, lotta believers imagine they can Quote "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" eh

True, and they'll go on the tell us how God helps those who help themselves.

But back to Paul's writings . . . where he states a preference, and you need to surmise the rest. It's pretty interesting when I think about it, really, what sort of mindset would you need to say something like that? To prefer to be absent from the body and present with the Lord? What must he have been thinking?

Aren't we present with the Lord now? After all, it is written, For He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you.

So you suppose there is some way to be absent from the body, and that would then make you present with the Lord in a way we aren't already?

But then, he did say, our walk is by faith, and not by sight. Perhaps he meant that absent from the body, we will see?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Rather than the much more practical "this is a school zone, 20 mph, but i might even do 5 or even come to a dead stop if some toddler is wandering near the curb" kinda thing, because "the law is inadequate"

Good example, I think! The codified law, and a higher law.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, rather than what is often heard from believers

What must he have been thinking?

well i guess the punchline/point of the passage is the line after that one

So you suppose there is some way to be absent from the body, and that would then make you present with the Lord in a way we aren't already?

ah, no; imo the sentence makes perfect sense when read right, "we are cock-sure, i say, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus..."

with the understanding that Paul often uses "we" to be inclusive

 

[marks]

well i guess the punchline/point of the passage is the line after that one

Interestingly, when I clicked reply, there were a few more lines to the post.

But on this one . . . Yes, it's all about whether we are accepted by our Lord, because we will all stand before Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

yes, rather than what is often heard from believers

well i guess the punchline/point of the passage is the line after that one

ah, no; imo the sentence makes perfect sense when read right, "we are cock-sure, i say, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus..."

with the understanding that Paul often uses "we" to be inclusive

OK, now that's what I saw on my reply. Weird! You must have just been posting an edit I guess.

Anyway . . .

An inclusive "we" not meaning to include himself, rather, then to show the error of thinking that way? Do I understand you correctly?

What is your idea on this part:

21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

yes, rather than what is often heard from believers

well i guess the punchline/point of the passage is the line after that one

ah, no; imo the sentence makes perfect sense when read right, "we are cock-sure, i say, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus..."

with the understanding that Paul often uses "we" to be inclusive

The other question I have is on this part:

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Similar sort of statement, except that he adds "knowing that". Is your thinking the same here? That his intended audience is being confident in something though it's the wrong way of thinking about it?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I find your flair for the abstract intriguing. You remind me of my shrink. lol

Is that how you became a lightweight [as per your avatar]? You visit a person who specializes in shrinking you [rather than your mind and/or emotions]. I need a bit of that myself in the flesh. There is a bit too much of me... if you know what I mean... LOL