With So Many Denominations...

[marks]

Nearly everything you have said has been effectively glorifying the apostle Paul. Your words are recorded for all to see. I'm not falling for your trap. You touted an apostle. I responded by lifting up Christ. If you're just trying to pick a fight, then be off with you.

I am of Paul, and I am of Apollos, and I am of Christ . . . but do you believe God inspired Paul with what to write?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you expect to convince me that an apostle has precedence over Christ in anything

Where do you see them not teaching in agreement?

 

[marks]

I don't know. I guess one suggests that Paul has the last word on matters doctrinal, and the other, Christ.

I am of the mind that all the Bible is the Word of God, and that though Paul penned one part, and Matthew penned another part (or their scribes more likely) each is the inspired Word of God.

There need be no "last word of authority" between Jesus and Paul and Peter and Isaiah, because all is the writing from the Holy Spirit. Not what they thought, but what God moved them to write.

Any perceived conflict, where one might be tempted to say, well, this is JESUS, so that trumps, I think this just means we need to look more to find the true harmony, and in the harmony between the various Scriptures, we find the real meaning.

Looking to the Lord to lead us through His word, but understanding that God will never contradict Himself.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I pointed out that Paul was an Apostle, which you seemed to have a problem with from the start

Nice wordsmithing. Straw man job of the century, I'll hand you that.

How can you bid someone God Bless while you're trying to lay a trap for them. Disgusting.

We're done.

 

[marks]

its like this and likethatand like this...

And that's the way it is!

;)

 

[BarneyFife]

Gentleman @user has succeeded in painting me as a Paul-hater. Give him a nice round of applause, everyone.

 

[marks]

Gentleman @user has succeeded in painting me as a Paul-hater. Give him a nice round of applause, everyone.

Seems a little over-the-top to me.

 

[mjrhealth]

Take a close look at their Statement of Faith and whether it is solidly supported by Scripture. But in order to know whether it is sound, you need to also have a good grounding in Bible and Gospel Truth.

There are a lot of religions based on "bible truth", and still preach a different gospel, no different to what is happening here.

 

[mjrhealth]

This is the best one yet, folks!

Rally. rather find Christ and Stick with Him, there is none better. Not that He is hiding or anything like that, just few bother to seek after Him

 

[Sabertooth]

You would think then that it was similar to those scattered from the Tower of Babel when God confounded their languages or...?

Though inconvenient, that was, ultimately, a blessing. Since Man could have reached God through a "back door,*" interference was in our best interest, just like blocking access to the Tree of Life in our fallen state.

In a way, God building His Church is the reversal of the Babel Scatter, but on His terms.

*Genesis 11:6 NKJV,
"And the Lord said,

'Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do;
now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them...' "​

 

[Philip James]

nice avatar pj :)

Ty!
That's my end of season winter fur. I hack it all off in April and start regrowing in Sept.

Peace!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Update: I'm afraid I haven't made myself very clear. My intentions were to provoke critical/analytical thought harnessed by Scripture--not to solicit personal suggestions per se (not that I couldn't use some, of course). With all of the bright hearts and minds I've encountered so far, in the end we all go away with some useful knowledge.
------------------------------------------------
With all the many Christian denominations and sects out there, how can one know which one is closest to teaching the truth about Jesus and the Gospel, especially if they all claim to be arriving at truth through basically the same method?

And to those who would answer that it doesn't matter because we must arrive at the truth on our own:

a) Who, honestly, actually does that? We're all influenced by teachers to some degree, and we're affected by our environment, experiences, upbringing and, most hopefully, the Holy Spirit, Himself. And doesn't the Bible Itself even suggest that at least some or most of us have to be taught?; and

b) If we're cautioned not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, especially near the end of time (and if we aren't close now I don't even want to imagine what "close" looks like), is it really God's will that we should have no place to go on a regular basis to meet and worship with others who believe as we do?

I've noticed that when people fiercely protect a doctrine, it's usually one that seems to have (seemingly) conflicting evidence even from the Bible alone.

If it seems like I'm encouraging skepticism, nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm looking for practical, critically-reasoned, non-canned answers to real problems (real, at least, as I see it).

I woke up one day when I was 23 years old and realized that I just believed what my family believed about God. A, B, C, 1, 2, 3--right down the line.

I believe Christians ought to believe the same thing about how Jesus saves us and what, if anything, we owe Him. I believe the Bible predicts it. But I don't believe we should treat each other unkindly while working toward the unity of the faith.

The Information age has produced a multi-generational group of ultra-sensitive (non)communicators.

I'm hoping this community proves to be the exception to the rule. I'm confident that by God's grace it will.

Hi, Barny, you pose some good questions. I'll just jump right in with my thoughts. I hope I don't sound as though I'm preaching at you. I tend to be very matter-of-fact when I explain things. Must be an occupational hazard. I'm a teacher. :)

I believe the divisions among Christians, which have resulted in many different denominations, are caused by Christians applying human reasoning to try and figure out God's truth. I'm not suggesting that Christians should be devoid of reasoning and logic, but when our reasoning forces God/His truth into a box of man's making, we won't arrive at the whole truth.

I'm sure you're aware that the Bible contains dichotomies (seeming contradictions). When Christians camp on one side of a dichotomy or the other, they end up with contradicting denominational doctrines--stressing one side of a dichotomy at the expense of the other side. A good example is the predestination/free will dichotomy. The scriptures teach both of these doctrines, but the Wesleyans (Methodists, etc.) camp on the free-will side, while the Calvinists (Presbyterians, etc.) camp on the predestination side.

Jesus told the disciples, "When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth" (Jn 16:13). As you have touched on, the indwelling Holy Spirit is the key to understanding the truth. I believe that God shows us what we need to know in this life, but I also believe that there are things we won't understand this side of heaven. Paul said, "For now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known" (1 Cor 13:12). But one day we will know fully!

I've come to see that the indwelling Holy Spirit is also THE key to living the Christian life. Some Christians turn to the Mosaic Law to keep from sinning by trying to combine faith with Law. They believe that Christians are bound to perform works of the Law, but nothing could be further from the truth. Paul explains it this way: "I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (Gal 5:16-18).

I believe that churches need to teach Christians how to "walk by the Spirit," but after over 40 years of being a Christian, I've never heard this specifically taught in a church. Walking by the Spirit involves being so submitted and in tune to the Holy Spirit that we allow the Spirit to direct and guide us through this life, even in very specific ways.

Many years ago God took me through a training course where He taught me to discern the guidance of the Spirit. Here's one example of how He did this. One day my family and I were hiking in the woods. I was walking along a path and came to a spot where the path split and then came back together. I decided to go left, but the Holy Spirit told me to go right. I wanted to go my own way, so I examined the pathway I had chosen. All I saw was a small overhanging branch, but I didn't think this was a problem and proceeded down the left pathway.

When we got into our truck to head home, my late husband gasped and said, "Look at your leg." There was a tick crawling up my pants on the side where the overhanging branch was. Years later, I lived in a tick-infested area and was bitten by a Lone Star tick that caused me to have an allergic reaction to beef. Of course, ticks can carry some deadly diseases.

This lesson has stayed with me all these years. I used human logic to disregard the directive of the Holy Spirit. Like Israel, who often "did what was right in their own eyes," I did what seemed reasonable to me and could have suffered for it.

I see the Mosaic Law as Israel's roadmap to living, and of course, like Paul said, "The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:24-25). But the Holy Spirit serves as a Christian's GPS system--giving turn-by-turn directions through life. There is no better way or freer way to live than by the direction and power of His Spirit!

Of course, as we submit ourselves to the Holy Spirit, He is free to develop His fruit in us and use us to glorify God and edify the Body of Christ through the spiritual gifts.... And we can all be guided into all truth together instead of inventing doctrines from our own logic and reasoning and using these to divide Christ's Body.

Many times the Holy Spirit has directed me to read certain sections of the Bible. I'm always excited when He does this because I know that He will give me insight and understanding. And I'm always amazed at what He shows me!

I hope that I have at least touched on some of your questions/thoughts. Blessings to you, and I pray that you will be guided by His Spirit into all truth!

 

[Philip James]

Trying to create and maintain huge church organizations is not a good or realistic idea, IMHO...

Hello farouk,

For mere men perhaps, but Jesus created and maintains His Church, it has grown to a great mountain that fills the whole Earth as it was foretold long ago..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Update: I'm afraid I haven't made myself very clear. My intentions were to provoke critical/analytical thought harnessed by Scripture--not to solicit personal suggestions per se (not that I couldn't use some, of course). With all of the bright hearts and minds I've encountered so far, in the end we all go away with some useful knowledge.
------------------------------------------------
With all the many Christian denominations and sects out there, how can one know which one is closest to teaching the truth about Jesus and the Gospel, especially if they all claim to be arriving at truth through basically the same method?

And to those who would answer that it doesn't matter because we must arrive at the truth on our own:

a) Who, honestly, actually does that? We're all influenced by teachers to some degree, and we're affected by our environment, experiences, upbringing and, most hopefully, the Holy Spirit, Himself. And doesn't the Bible Itself even suggest that at least some or most of us have to be taught?; and

b) If we're cautioned not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, especially near the end of time (and if we aren't close now I don't even want to imagine what "close" looks like), is it really God's will that we should have no place to go on a regular basis to meet and worship with others who believe as we do?

I've noticed that when people fiercely protect a doctrine, it's usually one that seems to have (seemingly) conflicting evidence even from the Bible alone.

If it seems like I'm encouraging skepticism, nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm looking for practical, critically-reasoned, non-canned answers to real problems (real, at least, as I see it).

I woke up one day when I was 23 years old and realized that I just believed what my family believed about God. A, B, C, 1, 2, 3--right down the line.

I believe Christians ought to believe the same thing about how Jesus saves us and what, if anything, we owe Him. I believe the Bible predicts it. But I don't believe we should treat each other unkindly while working toward the unity of the faith.

The Information age has produced a multi-generational group of ultra-sensitive (non)communicators.

I'm hoping this community proves to be the exception to the rule. I'm confident that by God's grace it will.

Hello brother....I have attended several different denominations growing up and as an adult. I found that some were too doctrinal even to the point that to become a member of that church you had to accept their doctrines....example...Pentecostal Holiness didn't allow women to wear makeup or pants or cut their hair....so IMHO they were missing the mark as to what doctrine Jesus taught us to go by.
Others were too ritual....and a couple were just flat out false churches....
How I knew was the right one for me was the one that exemplified Love...agape love....and who had a focus on outreach to the community to witness to those in the world....who offered help to the poor. (Food and clothing)....and who preached the Word in context...(no one verse sermons).
Oh...and most important who allowed the Holy Spirit to move as He Willed.
Another thing is they were focused on making disciples of others not just pew warmers. Equipping them with the skills and knowledge of spreading the gospel of Jesus wherever they could.

 

[BarneyFife]

Paul is often called the Great Apostle and rightfully so. He was probably the greatest evangelist who ever lived and he wrote more of the New Testament than any other writer. But he is used way, way, way more than any other writer of Scripture to argue doctrine. Peter gives a warning about misusing or abusing his writings that is almost never mentioned, and when it is, it is always squelched in short order. I find this highly suspect. I do not believe the Pauline epistles are any more or less inspired that any other part of Scripture. But I will not apologize for bringing Peter's warning to people's attention:

2Pe 3:15-17 KJV 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[amadeus]

A Norwegian folk tale "billly goats gruff", was about a Troll, ( hungry, aggressive, mean ) creature that lived under a bridge, lying in wait for a Goat to cross the bridge and snatch the goat to eat it.

Oh yes! I grew up in the USA but I remember hearing and reading a version of that story as a child. It has been many years since I have heard anyone mention it. I recall the punch line in effect was when after first the smallest goat and then the medium sized goat were each in turn forced to go back because the troll under the bridge would devour them if they crossed the bridge. The big billy goat then came up and resorted to force of horns and butted the troll over edge of the bridge putting him permanently out of the picture. After that even the smaller goats had free access to the bridge and the pastures on the other side... It was once one of my favorite stories. I would be surprised if many children today have ever heard it.

State of Michigan is two pensulias ... about the 1960's A Bridge was erected to Connect the two pensulias, where Lake Michigan and Lake Huron meet. The people in the UP (Upper Pensulia, were Called Upers) after the Bridge was built, the Upers began calling the people Below- Lower geographically - Lower Pensulia- TROLLS, because they lived "under" the Bridge.

That I had not heard before. Thank you for sharing it.

An internet Troll is someone who FOR example reads over others posts, tweets, etc. Offers no dialogue in conversation...but jumps IN for the intent to Attack.

That kind of thing I have sometimes seen, but I guess my confusion has been because sometimes people have applied the label to a person who disagreed with them and wouldn't seriously consider changing their beliefs. Communication is always a problem here, isn't it? Too many people speak different languages without anyone being willing or able to interpret.

And uh maybe 1970's ?? Little teeny Troll figures...were in Vending machines, gum-ball type machines. Wild hair in Numerous colors, like the photo shown.
Another toy gimmick I presume.

Yeah I kinda' remember that, but I like the trolls depicted in Tolkien's Hobbit best.

Glory to God,
Taken

Onward then... where He leads me, I will follow!

 

[quietthinker]

With all the many Christian denominations and sects out there, how can one know which one is closest to teaching the truth about Jesus and the Gospel, especially if they all claim to be arriving at truth through basically the same method?

All God's people will be taught by his Spirit. The rest will be forever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.
Those who are led by His Spirit have a journey one can liken to a narrow rough winding track. The story of Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan is a good likeness.

 

[amadeus]

Isn't it wonderful when God makes His providence so plain like that? (When I pray in the morning, I ask God to direct my feet only in the path of those who are hungry and ready to see His love. He rarely disappoints me, so to speak.)

I had a similar experience with a young pastor. There were no real health issues involved, but he was being ostracized by half of the church for believing and preaching (very subtly) error which was a legitimate claim, in fact.

But the way the objectors went about trying to deal with the problem was abysmal. I was quite fond of him and he had pure motives. It was so plain to see for anyone with an ounce of spiritual discernment. Before his views were made plain he was considered by all to be a model pastor. It was his first assignment out of seminary. I supported him and his family as best I could. It was assumed that I held sympathy with his doctrinal error. I refused to defend myself against such an assumption. I never uttered a word to validate it. After all, of what value is my reputation before a brood of evil surmisers?

The church was split and has never recovered to its former level of mission work. The pastor went on to shepherd the largest church of my denomination in the state of Pennsylvania and then to another big church in Tampa, Florida. Last I heard, he had abandoned or kept the error to himself. I eventually moved my membership to a small church 30 miles away.

I hear you loud and clear on this. I did not always agree with my old pastor... Still don't, but I have to love the man. He was by far the best of 8 pastors I sat under since 1976... actually striving to to be always as a "pastor" should be as I read the scriptures. He would never resign. He was old and frail and forgetful, but he loved everyone... even the ones who pressed for his removal. Regarding their desire to put him out, he said that God had called him to start that church and he would only leave when and if God told him to leave. His testimony of how God called him from Phoenix AZ to Oklahoma in the 1980's is reminiscent of the fleeces of Gideon. God left no doubt about the need for him and his wife to move to Oklahoma.

People today it seems often play politics in churches as if they were a democracy. All they need is majority to kick out the man of God. No democracies that I have seen among God's people in the scriptures.

 

[Truther]

what can i say? You are a truther, and i am a liar :/

LOL

 

[amadeus]

Though inconvenient, that was, ultimately, a blessing. Since Man could have reached God through a "back door,*" interference was in our best interest, just like blocking access to the Tree of Life in our fallen state.

In a way, God building His Church is the reversal of the Babel Scatter, but on His terms.

*Genesis 11:6 NKJV,
"And the Lord said,

'Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do;
now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them...' "​

Even so! Consider perhaps that God scattered them and gave them different languages so that some, probably only a few, would not again be led forward by foolish leaders in similar foolish undertakings. Sometimes we have traveled so far away from the right road that we need to go back to the very beginning and start over again.