Wise Men

[Harold]

Believe in Jesus Christ to be saved and thus all people will trust in Christ Jesus and go to Heaven.

ISAIAH 26:9 When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.



I was speaking to a person today and he mentioned “three wise men” when making reference to a place he had went to. The three wise men, though there could have been more wise people in general coming to offer gifts, travelled to where the Messiah (Jesus Christ) and accepted Him as their saviour. They most likely looked at the Prophecy of Daniel and were inspired to seek Christ Jesus.

Matthew 2:11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

These men were considered wise because they were believers in Christ. And to believe in Christ is to have faith alone in Him, which is why they bowed down and worshipped Him, they trusted Him. The treasures they presented were not to be saved, but rather a result of their salvation. The fruits of the Holy Spirit within them, that wraps all believers and seals them to the day of redemption.

Psalm 86:9 All the nations you have made will come and worship before you, 0 Lord; they will bring glory to your name.

The truth is that everyone will become a believer in Jesus Christ with faith alone, just like these wise men! In fact, everyone will also be worshipped Christ Jesus and bowing down to Him because of this faith, because they were saved, out of thankfulness, gratitude and love.

And the wise men followed the Star of Bethlehem, which is called His Star which is how they found Christ Jesus.

Matthew 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

The truth is that everyone will worship the one who was born King of the Jews, which is Jesus, because everyone will believe in Christ with faith alone and be saved, that is guaranteed.

Rev. 15:4 "ALL nations shall come and worship You, for your judgments have been made manifested."

Everyone will come to worship Christ. Not just the wise men from one particular nation, all the wise people everywhere, because every one will be made wise by understanding this truth. To be saved, you must believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone. And thus everyone will believe in Christ Jesus with faith alone and be saved.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

What is winning souls? It’s soulwinning, evangelism, telling people the good news of Christ. And the good news of Christ through Christian Universalism, which is the truth, is truly wise! This is true. Everyone will go to Heaven because Christ will save everyone and make everyone become a believer in Him!

Psalm 66:3, 4 "Through the greatness of your power your enemies shall submit themselves to you. ALL the earth shall worship You and sing praises to you." [Submission meaning having faith alone in Jesus Christ to be saved. We were all enemies of Christ at one point in our lives! And we will all be washed of our sins by faith alone in Him.]

The important part about soulwinning is to tell people the Gospel, how to be saved, which is to believe in Christ Jesus with faith alone. The sooner people are saved by Jesus, the less suffering they will experience. That’s my motivation for saving people through Christ. The longer people go on without the truth, the more suffering they experience.

Psalm 22:27, 29 "ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord, and ALL the families of the nations shall worship before You. ALL those who go down to the dust (death) shall bow before You."

I remember when I used to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment and then subsequently Annihilationism in the past. These false doctrines brought me no lasting comfort. I would worry about my family members and other friends, even though I was already saved, what these peoples fate would be. That’s the torture of the ECT and Conditional Immortality false doctrines. But the truth of Universal Reconciliation through Christ Jesus tells us the truth! That everyone will be saved by Jesus Christ this is true! Everyone will become wise! And that is true wisdom.

Psalm 86:9 "ALL nations whom God has made will come and worship before Him"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

These men were considered wise because they were believers in Christ. And to believe in Christ is to have faith alone in Him, which is why they bowed down and worshipped Him, they trusted Him. The treasures they presented were not to be saved, but rather a result of their salvation. The fruits of the Holy Spirit within them, that wraps all believers and seals them to the day of redemption.

Englis call them wise men, but the original word is Magi where we get our word magician from. these were astronomers most likely from Persia who with the ancinet prophecies of Daniel preserved and their astronomy and astrology skills knew of a birth of a special king. It is just that simple.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I was speaking to a person today and he mentioned “three wise men” when making reference to a place he had went to. The three wise men, though there could have been more wise people in general coming to offer gifts, travelled to where the Messiah (Jesus Christ) and accepted Him as their saviour. They most likely looked at the Prophecy of Daniel and were inspired to seek Christ Jesus.

I can't find a single reference to any of that in the Bible.....the "magi" (from where we get the word "magician") were Babylonian astrologers and nowhere in the gospels does it mention that there were three of them. The Babylonians worshipped many gods but the scriptures do not say that they came to "worship" Jesus at all. They had three gifts to present to a new born king, not to another god....it was apparently their custom.

The star that they saw in the east, they identified as "his star" which identified them as astrologers. That star guided them from Babylon to Jerusalem....not to Bethlehem. Upon their arrival they inquired where the new King was to be found, and when Herod got wind of it, it set in motion terrible events that resulted in the deaths of all the infants 2 years of age and under. No one was going to supplant his own sons in the family dynasty.
Herod tried to locate the child by finding out the time and place of the child's birth. He told the magi to locate the child and report back to him feigning a desire to honor the new king himself.....but interestingly the star that had led them straight to Herod, now led them to Jesus ...in fact it stopped above the very house where he was now living with his parents. They never were at the stable....and the star was not sent by God but by satan in order to have the Messiah killed before he even had time to grow up.

No story in the Bible has been more thoroughly corrupted by Christendom than this one.

These men were considered wise because they were believers in Christ. And to believe in Christ is to have faith alone in Him, which is why they bowed down and worshipped Him, they trusted Him. The treasures they presented were not to be saved, but rather a result of their salvation. The fruits of the Holy Spirit within them, that wraps all believers and seals them to the day of redemption.

Nothing could be further from the truth....They were not believers and no scripture says so. They were Babylonian "wise men"…..wise in the ways of false worship...their identification was..."the name given by the Babylonians (Chaldeans), Medes, Persians, and others, to the wise men, teachers, priests, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, augers, soothsayers, sorcerers etc."

They were practicers of everything that God condemned. (Deut 18:9-12) But there was no malice in their intent as satan had used them as unwitting dupes.....therefore God warned them in a dream not to return to Herod. In a fit of rage, realizing that they were not coming back, Herod ordered the murder of all those babies.

Everyone will come to worship Christ. Not just the wise men from one particular nation, all the wise people everywhere, because every one will be made wise by understanding this truth. To be saved, you must believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone. And thus everyone will believe in Christ Jesus with faith alone and be saved.

This is not the Bible's message.....if that was the case then there was no point in allowing the devil to rule the world for the last 6,000 years.
God could have just saved us all and no one would have had reason to endure all the tragedy and suffering of this life.
Universal salvation makes a mockery of the Bible's entire narrative. Why this life? What was the point of handing over world rulership to the devil? (Luke 4:5-8; 1 John 4:8)

I remember when I used to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment and then subsequently Annihilationism in the past. These false doctrines brought me no lasting comfort. I would worry about my family members and other friends, even though I was already saved, what these peoples fate would be. That’s the torture of the ECT and Conditional Immortality false doctrines. But the truth of Universal Reconciliation through Christ Jesus tells us the truth! That everyone will be saved by Jesus Christ this is true! Everyone will become wise! And that is true wisdom.
Psalm 86:9 "ALL nations whom God has made will come and worship before Him"

Your beliefs make no sense...if everyone is saved then why worry about anyone? "Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we are saved!"???
What is the point of following Christ and spouting the Bible if all you can see is that in the end, everyone is saved?
What are you saved from?

The Bible only has two choices...everlasting life or everlasting death...we choose one or the other by how we live this life.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I can't find a single reference to any of that in the Bible.....the "magi" (from where we get the word "magician") were Babylonian astrologers and nowhere in the gospels does it mention that there were three of them. The Babylonians worshipped many gods but the scriptures do not say that they came to "worship" Jesus at all. They had three gifts to present to a new born king, not to another god....it was apparently their custom.

Wrong! They would not have undertaken a 3+ year journey just to give gifts to a newborn king. And yes a caravan only did about 20 miles per day in those days and they had to travel a minimum 1400 miles to get there. No, it was not the custom of the Persians to visit new kings. It does not mention their number. that simply could be from oral tradition passed down. but that is insignificant.

he star that they saw in the east, they identified as "his star" which identified them as astrologers. That star guided them from Babylon to Jerusalem....not to Bethlehem. Upon their arrival they inquired where the new King was to be found, and when Herod got wind of it, it set in motion terrible events that resulted in the deaths of all the infants 2 years of age and under. No one was going to supplant his own sons in the family dynasty.
Herod tried to locate the child by finding out the time and place of the child's birth. He told the magi to locate the child and report back to him feigning a desire to honor the new king himself.....but interestingly the star that had led them straight to Herod, now led them to Jesus ...in fact it stopped above the very house where he was now living with his parents. They never were at the stable....and the star was not sent by God but by satan in order to have the Messiah killed before he even had time to grow up.

No story in the Bible has been more thoroughly corrupted by Christendom than this one.

They followed a star which was not a star. The nearest star after our sun is over 18,000,000,000,000 miles away! 6 light years. Stars do not travel north and south as this "star did" and stars do not settle over a "place" if a "star" got close enough to pinpoint a particular house, the earth would have been burnt to ashes long before.

So this was not a "star" in the normal sense of a heavenly body shining. I t MAY (repeat) may have been the shekinah glory of God.

And yes Jesus was born in a stable and laid in a feed trough (manger), but when the maji arrived Jesus was at least three years old, that is based on teh words Scripture uses that differentiate him as a new born (birth) and young child when the maji came.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wrong! They would not have undertaken a 3+ year journey just to give gifts to a newborn king. And yes a caravan only did about 20 miles per day in those days and they had to travel a minimum 1400 miles to get there. No, it was not the custom of the Persians to visit new kings. It does not mention their number. that simply could be from oral tradition passed down. but that is insignificant.

Everything about the “Christmas” story is from “oral tradition” passed down by an apostate church. (Matt 15:7-9)
Jews did not celebrate birthdays which is why you will not find a single mention of a birthday of any worshippers of Jehovah.
Birthdays were a big deal to astrologers however because a birthdate allowed them to cast horoscopes. Astrology was condemned in God’s law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

The date of Christ’s birth is not recorded and hence Jesus did not celebrate his own birthday. There is no command for us to do that. The date of his death however is recorded, but again the event was hijacked by paganism. A little research is all it takes to see where Christendom’s pet celebrations come from.

They followed a star which was not a star. The nearest star after our sun is over 18,000,000,000,000 miles away! 6 light years. Stars do not travel north and south as this "star did" and stars do not settle over a "place" if a "star" got close enough to pinpoint a particular house, the earth would have been burnt to ashes long before.

To these “wise men” “his star” was what they followed. It was no ordinary star that is for sure....but if it had been from God as you suggest, then why did it lead them first to Herod, and only after unsettling this jealous king to murderous anger, did the star guide then guide them straight to the very house where Jesus was living?
Your version of the story has big holes in it....and no logic.

So this was not a "star" in the normal sense of a heavenly body shining. I t MAY (repeat) may have been the shekinah glory of God.

Nonsense! God had revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds who went straight to Bethlehem to see for themselves, and found him in the stable in a manger as the angels had said. The heavenly host had announced the event with great glory. There is no way that God would reveal the birth of his son to pagan practicers of everything that he condemned....satan did that....he sent the star in an attempt to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up. How is that not obvious?

Like I said....no story in the Bible has been as thoroughly corrupted by Christendom, as this one. You are giving glory to satan and you can’t even see it. Your pagan Christmas trees adorned with the very thing that satan used to have Jesus killed. His birth date celebrated when it is not recorded in scripture, but borrowed from paganism again.

And yes Jesus was born in a stable and laid in a feed trough (manger), but when the maji arrived Jesus was at least three years old, that is based on teh words Scripture uses that differentiate him as a new born (birth) and young child when the maji came.

Yes, that is correct, but judging by Herod’s response, all the infants two years of age and under were killed.
Where do you get "three"? Same place as the “three wise men” I guess...?

 

[liafailrock]

Englis call them wise men, but the original word is Magi where we get our word magician from. these were astronomers most likely from Persia who with the ancinet prophecies of Daniel preserved and their astronomy and astrology skills knew of a birth of a special king. It is just that simple.

I just want to make an observation here and not participate in this conversation per se, but years ago before we had a lot of access to knowledge the way we do today, what you said would have been considered something known by only an inside few (e.g. Daniel taught the Magi and that was passed on in the generations). There were a only limited number of books and teachers that one could find this sort of stuff; but as recently as 40 years ago at best you'd get a strange look in church for saying something like this. At worst maybe called a heretic. Now I see information like this quite readily available to Christians who want to know it. In that sense, I am happy for what I am seeing such as your comment here. It brings a more knowledgeable discourse instead of believing what one is told (or else lol). I guess ol' Daniel was right that knowledge would increase.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I just want to make an observation here and not participate in this conversation per se, but years ago before we had a lot of access to knowledge the way we do today, what you said would have been considered something known by only an inside few (e.g. Daniel taught the Magi and that was passed on in the generations). There were a only limited number of books and teachers that one could find this sort of stuff; but as recently as 40 years ago at best you'd get a strange look in church for saying something like this. At worst maybe called a heretic. Now I see information like this quite readily available to Christians who want to know it. In that sense, I am happy for what I am seeing such as your comment here. It brings a more knowledgeable discourse instead of believing what one is told (or else lol). I guess ol' Daniel was right that knowledge would increase.

Looking at the attitude that the "wise men" of the conquered city of Babylon had towards Daniel, it seems to me that Daniel was somewhat of a thorn in their side because he believed in the one God of the Jews whereas the Babylonians had multiple gods. He only gained the favor of Nebuchadnezzar because of his interpretation of the divinely inspired dreams he was having. This made the other "wise men" both angry and jealous.

After the fall of Babylon, in the reign of Darius the Mede, Daniel was one of the three high officials appointed over the 120 satraps who were to rule the kingdom. Excelling greatly in governmental service because of divine favor, Daniel was about to be elevated over all the kingdom when envy and jealousy again caused the other officials to scheme against him. The law that they induced the king to enact would have to be in connection with Daniel’s worship of God, as they could find no fault with him otherwise. The king acted reluctantly to carry out the law, which, according to custom, could not be changed, but he did cast Daniel into the pit of the lions. For Daniel’s firm integrity and faith, Jehovah sent His angel to deliver him from the lions’ mouths. Darius then executed justice on the conspirators, having them destroyed by the same lions. (Daniel ch 6)

Daniel may not have lived much beyond the third year of Cyrus. If he was a teenager at the time of being brought to Babylon in 617 B.C.E., he would be almost 100 years old when he received that vision recorded in chapters 10-12. The angel’s statement to Daniel, “As for you yourself, go toward the end; and you will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days,” seems to imply that his life was nearing its close, with assurance of a resurrection for him. (Daniel 12:13)

That being the case, I do not believe that the Persians were ever really familiar with the teachings in Daniel's prophesies, though they may have heard of him in legend. The fact that the region was conquered by foreign powers with foreign deities and practices that were still in evidence in Jesus' day, shows that the magi were not coming to worship a god, but to honor a new "King of the Jews". (Deut 18:9-12)
"Magi" is where we get the word "magic"....something that was forbidden in God's law.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Everything about the “Christmas” story is from “oral tradition” passed down by an apostate church. (Matt 15:7-9)
Jews did not celebrate birthdays which is why you will not find a single mention of a birthday of any worshippers of Jehovah.
Birthdays were a big deal to astrologers however because a birthdate allowed them to cast horoscopes. Astrology was condemned in God’s law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

The date of Christ’s birth is not recorded and hence Jesus did not celebrate his own birthday. There is no command for us to do that. The date of his death however is recorded, but again the event was hijacked by paganism. A little research is all it takes to see where Christendom’s pet celebrations come from.

Jews did celebrate birthdays. Not by ordinance however.

And no not all things of the Christmas story is passed down from oral tradition. Much is taken from the Scriptures, though many peg things at the wrong time.

JOb celebrated his childrens birhthdays.

there is no command to celebrate His birthday, nor is there a command to not celebrate it either. so according to the principle laid down in Rom. 14, it is for each to do or not do according to their own conscience before god.

Well if you have doen all this research, why don't you put some facts to your allegations.

To these “wise men” “his star” was what they followed. It was no ordinary star that is for sure....but if it had been from God as you suggest, then why did it lead them first to Herod, and only after unsettling this jealous king to murderous anger, did the star guide then guide them straight to the very house where Jesus was living?
Your version of the story has big holes in it....and no logic.

Why to Herod? to fulfill prophecy. Just because it is an ugly prophecy- it still is God inspired.

Okay uyopu have made an allegation my7 story has holes, so show where these holes are.

I could care less about if it is logical, I only care if it is biblical-whether or not it makes sense to certain groups of people or not.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jews did celebrate birthdays. Not by ordinance however.

All through their history the apostate Jews adopted various ideas from paganism, just like the apostate Christians did in the fourth century, grafting pagan beliefs over Christian scripture, substituting man-made traditions and doctrines for truth. (Matt 15:7-9) Read the history of Israel and see why God abandoned them after he had fulfilled his covenant with them. They broke their agreement, but God was faithful to his. (Matthew 23:37-39)
Add to that is the fact that NO birthdates for God's servants are ever recorded in scripture. The Israelites were warned NOT to adopt the ways of the Canaanites before they entered the Promised land. The Babylonians were also practicers of what God condemned....notably astrology and the foretelling of the future. (Deut 18:9-12)

And no not all things of the Christmas story is passed down from oral tradition. Much is taken from the Scriptures, though many peg things at the wrong time.

There is no "Christmas" in scripture. Jesus was a Jew and his birthdate is not recorded so why choose 25th December? The pagans already held their festival to Mithra on 25th December and all the traditions that go with Christmas are a collaboration of Roman and Norse paganism and mythology. Do some research and find out where all that came from...including the "Christmas tree" with that big shiny star on top....the one that led the magi to Herod and caused the deaths of all those innocent babies...

The prophesy you mentioned is in Matt 2:17-18 where "Rachel is weeping for her children" was fulfilled when Herod directed the killing of all male children two years of age and younger in and around Bethlehem. (Jer 31:15) The prophecy says further: “‘Hold back your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears, for there exists a reward for your activity,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘and they will certainly return from the land of the enemy.’” (Jer 31:16) Only by being raised from the dead could those slaughtered infants return from Sheol, to the comfort of the mothers who lost them in death.

JOb celebrated his childrens birhthdays.

It does not state that....people who do not know that birthdays were not celebrated by God's worshippers in Bible times, (except by pagans) might assume....but assumptions are not facts.

The Jewish Tanakh translates that verse....
"Now his sons would go and make a feast in each one's house on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them."
CSB..."His sons used to take turns having banquets at their homes"'....
CJB...."It was the custom of his sons to give banquets, each on his set day in his own house"...
CEV..."Job's sons took turns having feasts in their homes"....
EHV..."His sons would regularly arrange feasts, each one in his own house on his assigned day"...
NABRE..."His sons used to take turns giving feasts"....

There are no birthdays mentioned.......I ask you to find me one"....

there is no command to celebrate His birthday, nor is there a command to not celebrate it either. so according to the principle laid down in Rom. 14, it is for each to do or not do according to their own conscience before god.

Well if you have doen all this research, why don't you put some facts to your allegations.

I have already many times...
God's worshippers were told NOT to adopt pagan practices, especially those involving beliefs that were condemned in his word...
2 Cor 6:14-18...
"Don’t be teamed with those who do not love the Lord, for what do the people of God have in common with the people of sin? How can light live with darkness? 15 And what harmony can there be between Christ and the devil? How can a Christian be a partner with one who doesn’t believe? 16 And what union can there be between God’s temple and idols? For you are God’s temple, the home of the living God, and God has said of you, “I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.” 17 That is why the Lord has said, “Leave them; separate yourselves from them; don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you 18 and be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters.” (NLT)

Why to Herod? to fulfill prophecy. Just because it is an ugly prophecy- it still is God inspired.

No, the prophesy of the deaths of all those infants wasn't God inspired.....it was foretold. Big difference.....God has foreknowledge and what God foretells is not what he causes, but what he foresees others doing. God did not send the magi.

Okay uyopu have made an allegation my7 story has holes, so show where these holes are.

The holes are obvious to those who are not trying so hard to justify what God condemns. We have spoken about them before.....you don't want to listen.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All through their history the apostate Jews adopted various ideas from paganism, just like the apostate Christians did in the fourth century, grafting pagan beliefs over Christian scripture, substituting man-made traditions and doctrines for truth. (Matt 15:7-9) Read the history of Israel and see why God abandoned them after he had fulfilled his covenant with them. They broke their agreement, but God was faithful to his. (Matthew 23:37-39)
Add to that is the fact that NO birthdates for God's servants are ever recorded in scripture. The Israelites were warned NOT to adopt the ways of the Canaanites before they entered the Promised land. The Babylonians were also practicers of what God condemned....notably astrology and the foretelling of the future. (Deut 18:9-12)

There is no "Christmas" in scripture. Jesus was a Jew and his birthdate is not recorded so why choose 25th December? The pagans already held their festival to Mithra on 25th December and all the traditions that go with Christmas are a collaboration of Roman and Norse paganism and mythology. Do some research and find out where all that came from...including the "Christmas tree" with that big shiny star on top....the one that led the magi to Herod and caused the deaths of all those innocent babies...

The prophesy you mentioned is in Matt 2:17-18 where "Rachel is weeping for her children" was fulfilled when Herod directed the killing of all male children two years of age and younger in and around Bethlehem. (Jer 31:15) The prophecy says further: “‘Hold back your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears, for there exists a reward for your activity,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘and they will certainly return from the land of the enemy.’” (Jer 31:16) Only by being raised from the dead could those slaughtered infants return from Sheol, to the comfort of the mothers who lost them in death.

It does not state that....people who do not know that birthdays were not celebrated by God's worshippers in Bible times, (except by pagans) might assume....but assumptions are not facts.

The Jewish Tanakh translates that verse....
"Now his sons would go and make a feast in each one's house on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them."
CSB..."His sons used to take turns having banquets at their homes"'....
CJB...."It was the custom of his sons to give banquets, each on his set day in his own house"...
CEV..."Job's sons took turns having feasts in their homes"....
EHV..."His sons would regularly arrange feasts, each one in his own house on his assigned day"...
NABRE..."His sons used to take turns giving feasts"....

There are no birthdays mentioned.......I ask you to find me one"....

I have already many times...
God's worshippers were told NOT to adopt pagan practices, especially those involving beliefs that were condemned in his word...
2 Cor 6:14-18...
"Don’t be teamed with those who do not love the Lord, for what do the people of God have in common with the people of sin? How can light live with darkness? 15 And what harmony can there be between Christ and the devil? How can a Christian be a partner with one who doesn’t believe? 16 And what union can there be between God’s temple and idols? For you are God’s temple, the home of the living God, and God has said of you, “I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.” 17 That is why the Lord has said, “Leave them; separate yourselves from them; don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you 18 and be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters.” (NLT)

No, the prophesy of the deaths of all those infants wasn't God inspired.....it was foretold. Big difference.....God has foreknowledge and what God foretells is not what he causes, but what he foresees others doing. God did not send the magi.

The holes are obvious to those who are not trying so hard to justify what God condemns. We have spoken about them before.....you don't want to listen.

And none of this is the actual evidence I asked for to prove your allegations! Just a restating of the allegations with some new twists added.

NOw prove also that Satan inspired the death of the Bethlehem infants centuries earlier and remembered to di it through Herod!

It is easy just to vomit out all sorts of allegations and accusations, but now show biblical proof that all this is evil.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And none of this is the actual evidence I asked for to prove your allegations! Just a restating of the allegations with some new twists added.

Research is very simple...look them up for yourself.....try Googling “the pagan origins of Christmas or Easter” it’s all there.

NOw prove also that Satan inspired the death of the Bethlehem infants centuries earlier and remembered to di it through Herod!

Seriously.......Who but satan could inspire the deaths of innocent infants just to preserve his own family dynasty? God does not cause the death of the innocent, but he does not intervene in the activities of the wicked either. He has handed world rulership over to his enemy to prove his case, so any intervention would be aiding and abetting his enemy. God will only intervene if his purpose is threatened, (such as the floods of Noah’s day) where demonic activities interfered drastically with the human race and took them to levels of wickedness way too early. The flood was a reset, getting things back on track.

God did not bring the magi to Jerusalem because they were worshippers of false gods. He revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds. If God had sent the “star”, he would have led them directly to the child, as we see that happened after they left Herod. It led them to the very house where Jesus was living.

It is easy just to vomit out all sorts of allegations and accusations, but now show biblical proof that all this is evil.

The biblical proof has already been provided but you can’t see it....or don’t want to.

2 Cor 6:14-18...
"Don’t be teamed with those who do not love the Lord, for what do the people of God have in common with the people of sin? How can light live with darkness? 15 And what harmony can there be between Christ and the devil? How can a Christian be a partner with one who doesn’t believe? 16 And what union can there be between God’s temple and idols? For you are God’s temple, the home of the living God, and God has said of you, “I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.” 17 That is why the Lord has said, “Leave them; separate yourselves from them; don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you 18 and be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters.” (NLT)

There it is in the Bible...in plain English....don’t adopt false religious practices from the pagans....”leave them; separate yourselves from them; don’t touch their (spiritually) filthy things”......Christendom not only touches them...but embraces them, because they love them....meaning that the Father will not accept those who violate his commands as his spiritual children.

What more do you need...?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Seriously.......Who but satan could inspire the deaths of innocent infants just to preserve his own family dynasty? God does not cause the death of the innocent, but he does not intervene in the activities of the wicked either. He has handed world rulership over to his enemy to prove his case, so any intervention would be aiding and abetting his enemy. God will only intervene if his purpose is threatened, (such as the floods of Noah’s day) where demonic activities interfered drastically with the human race and took them to levels of wickedness way too early. The flood was a reset, getting things back on track.

God did not bring the magi to Jerusalem because they were worshippers of false gods. He revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds. If God had sent the “star”, he would have led them directly to the child, as we see that happened after they left Herod. It led them to the very house where Jesus was living.

You are just thinking as man thinks and not as God!

Now you are limiting God on what He can and cannot do. YOu want to leash god according to your standards.

God orderd the slaughter of all people in towns and villages that Israel attacked! You saying that was Satan in disguise?

There it is in the Bible...in plain English....don’t adopt false religious practices from the pagans....”leave them; separate yourselves from them; don’t touch their (spiritually) filthy things”......Christendom not only touches them...but embraces them, because they love them....meaning that the Father will not accept those who violate his commands as his spiritual children.

What more do you need...?

So biblically expalin how celebrating teh birth of the Savior with trimmings is yoking oneself to evil?

show me in the bible where fir trees in a home are inherently evil.

Or giving gifts inhonor of Jesus is evil?

Or setting aside a day to celebrate the birth of the Savior is evil?

I know of no one who worships the tree, or Saturnalia or Bacchus or engages in any practices to honor false gods. If they do they are wrong!

YOu are judging from the outside, God judges the heart! It is not the externals that defile a person, but their thoughts and intents of what they do that will defile a person.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are just thinking as man thinks and not as God!

Now you are limiting God on what He can and cannot do. YOu want to leash god according to your standards.

God clearly states his own standards....it is man who strays from them....and leads others into error....the apostate Jew were a clear example of that.

God orderd the slaughter of all people in towns and villages that Israel attacked! You saying that was Satan in disguise?

Wow.....I hope you understand that God has the right to give life or to take it.....what God does is certainly not on the same level as what flawed humanity do.

Satan was behind the magi coming to Jerusalem and stirring up the jealousy of a wicked king which resulted in the deaths of innocent Jewish children....Herod had no need to kill non-Jewish children because they posed no threat to him. Would God knowingly take the lives of innocent babies whilst preserving the lives of their parents....show me one biblical example. Children died along with their wicked parents.....presumably because wicked parents will more often than not produce wicked children. No one is born wicked.....that is a choice made by any human who ends up committing crimes such as rape or murder. It’s not like they don’t know it’s wrong.

So biblically expalin how celebrating teh birth of the Savior with trimmings is yoking oneself to evil?

If you read your Bible, you will see that God strictly controlled all celebrations that his people were told to hold on a yearly basis. All the details were to be followed to the letter....no other celebrations were permitted because of what happened when the Hebrews were released from Egyptian slavery....when Moses was taking too long to come down out of the mountain, they decided to hold a “festival to Jehovah” and they had Aaron make a golden calf, and they held this up as the “god” that brought them out of Egypt.
Jehovah was incensed! They were using his name whilst worshipping an idol. He punished the guilty.

There are no birthdates recorded in the Bible including that of Jesus’......Why? Because the Jews were to shun all pagan practices.....celebrating birthdays were a pagan practise. Astrologers used birthdates to cast horoscopes, fortelling the future. That was in direct disobedience to God’s command at Deut 18:9-12.

show me in the bible where fir trees in a home are inherently evil.

Or giving gifts inhonor of Jesus is evil?

Or setting aside a day to celebrate the birth of the Savior is evil?

It’s their pagan origins that are evil....that should be enough, especially when we have the clear command to stay away from all pagan ideas and concepts....

2 Cor 6:14-18...
“14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” (KJV)

“Touch not the unclean thing”.....if something has spiritually “unclean” origins, we are not to “touch” them....does that mean that we can embrace them if we change the name and pretend that they are now ”Christian”? Who wants you to believe that you can blend Christ with the devil (belial)?

Jehovah was there when the pagans were celebrating the originals. You think he doesn’t know where they came from?

I know of no one who worships the tree, or Saturnalia or Bacchus or engages in any practices to honor false gods. If they do they are wrong!

You are participating in false worship by adopting pagan practices under another name. “Touching” the “unclean thing” contaminates our worship. If I offered you a glass of cold water on a hot day, but I told you it was a little bit poisoned, would you drink it? What if it was mostly poison? Would you even touch it...?

YOu are judging from the outside, God judges the heart! It is not the externals that defile a person, but their thoughts and intents of what they do that will defile a person.

I hope you understand what justification is...? The heart is the most deceitful (figurative) organ in the human body....
Jeremiah 17: 9-10...
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”

What is in the heart, comes out in our actions. It is our actions that God judges....in its ‘desperate wickedness’, the heart will get what it wants.....for reasons that it justifies. You will never justify these things to God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wow.....I hope you understand that God has the right to give life or to take it.....what God does is certainly not on the same level as what flawed humanity do.

Satan was behind the magi coming to Jerusalem and stirring up the jealousy of a wicked king which resulted in the deaths of innocent Jewish children....Herod had no need to kill non-Jewish children because they posed no threat to him. Would God knowingly take the lives of innocent babies whilst preserving the lives of their parents....show me one biblical example. Children died along with their wicked parents.....presumably because wicked parents will more often than not produce wicked children. No one is born wicked.....that is a choice made by any human who ends up committing crimes such as rape or murder. It’s not like they don’t know it’s wrong.

Did you get whiplash writing this? You say God has the right to take any life and then dogmatically say it was Satan who led the wise men. I suppose you believe that special astral phenomena was Satanic in design as well.

YOu still haven't offered proof other than man's reasoning.

If you read your Bible, you will see that God strictly controlled all celebrations that his people were told to hold on a yearly basis. All the details were to be followed to the letter....no other celebrations were permitted because of what happened when the Hebrews were released from Egyptian slavery....when Moses was taking too long to come down out of the mountain, they decided to hold a “festival to Jehovah” and they had Aaron make a golden calf, and they held this up as the “god” that brought them out of Egypt.
Jehovah was incensed! They were using his name whilst worshipping an idol. He punished the guilty.

There are no birthdates recorded in the Bible including that of Jesus’......Why? Because the Jews were to shun all pagan practices.....celebrating birthdays were a pagan practise. Astrologers used birthdates to cast horoscopes, fortelling the future. That was in direct disobedience to God’s command at Deut 18:9-12.

Those were commanded celebrations. But God never forbade celebrating ones birthday. Pagans ater cheese also, I suppose because pagans did it we should not? How far do you wish to go with this nit picking.

Jesus said nothing outside of a man defiles them, so celebrating a birthday and not honoring false gods is not an evil.

Just because outside of Job birthdays are not mentioned, doesn't make them inherently evil any more than chopping down a fir tree and putting it in your house is. YOu are just viewing the externals whereas God views the heart.

You are participating in false worship by adopting pagan practices under another name. “Touching” the “unclean thing” contaminates our worship. If I offered you a glass of cold water on a hot day, but I told you it was a little bit poisoned, would you drink it? What if it was mostly poison? Would you even touch it...?

Wow are you so ignorant of Scripture and have swallowed the watchtower lies in toto!

Romans 14

King James Version

​

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The Watchtower has taught you to be arrogant, judgmental and simply nasty! Who are you to judge another mans servant? You do not wish to celebrate birthdays and Christmas in honor of the Lord? You are free to not- but you bring down serious problems to your self when you judsge those who have teh freedom of conscinece to do so in honor of the Lord.

YOu are a shallow religious pharisee.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Did you get whiplash writing this? You say God has the right to take any life and then dogmatically say it was Satan who led the wise men. I suppose you believe that special astral phenomena was Satanic in design as well.

YOu still haven't offered proof other than man's reasoning.

Your whole post is a classic example of justification.....people will not stop “touching the unclean thing” because they love it, and don’t want to give it up.

That is part of the “delusion” that Paul tells us will be manifest in those who “do not love the truth”....
When Jesus judges mankind, he will tell the “many” that he “never knew” them.....they think that they know him...yet he calls them “workers of lawlessness.” (Matt 7:21-23)
What is this “lawlessness” that they practice?

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12....
“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (NKJV)

In the first century, the desire to “go beyond what is written”, again added things to the faith that Christ never taught. The Jews had already fallen victim to this propensity.....and Jesus identified satan as the author of their faulty thinking.
Unless we are vigilant, we will become satan’s victims too....unless we stick to what God’s word teaches, even in the small things (Luke 16:10) and are careful not to add things that don’t belong, we will not be satan's servants, but God’s.

1 Cor 4:2-6....
“Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. . . . .For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God. Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.” (NKJV)

Those were commanded celebrations. But God never forbade celebrating ones birthday. Pagans ater cheese also, I suppose because pagans did it we should not? How far do you wish to go with this nit picking.

Why ignore what scripture teaches in plain language? If something has its origins in pagan religious beliefs, we are not to “touch” it. If you adopt such practices, you touch something that is spiritually “unclean” to God. It doesn’t matter what we think of it....
Eating cheese is hardly a sound theological argument about this topic....are you hearing yourself?
Good grief!

Jesus said nothing outside of a man defiles them, so celebrating a birthday and not honoring false gods is not an evil.

You use parts of scripture to justify yourself....but that is not what Jesus said....
Matthew 15:7-9,11
“Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”. . . . Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.” Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” (NKJV)

Wow are you so ignorant of Scripture and have swallowed the watchtower lies in toto!

Whose lies did you swallow in toto? Have you never wondered? Those lies were in existence centuries before you were even born.
What passes for Christianity today bears no resemblance to the original....it is a disunited bickering mess.

The Watchtower has taught you to be arrogant, judgmental and simply nasty! Who are you to judge another mans servant?

Whoa...hang on there buddy....read your own replies....haven't you made these exchanges "nasty and judgmental yourself"
What is this?...."YOu are a shallow religious pharisee"...

.....I simply tell you what the Bible says, and you don't have to like it.....if the cap fits...? You must be worried that it does otherwise you would not be trying so hard to defend the indefensible....and very poorly I might add.

You are free to believe whatever you wish......I am not your judge......but we all have to answer to the one who is......we had better be sure of what we have been led to believe.....because each of has been LED....but by whom?

You do not wish to celebrate birthdays and Christmas in honor of the Lord? You are free to not- but you bring down serious problems to your self when you judsge those who have teh freedom of conscinece to do so in honor of the Lord.

Nothing of pagan origin 'honors the Lord'....it didn't in Bible times and it doesn't today....God does not alter....he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. What offended him yesterday also offends him today....

Mal 1:6...
“For I, Yahweh, have not changed...." (LEB)

Can you tell me why you think Yahweh would change just to accommodate the wishes of those who want to adopt pagan customs because they cater to human appeal? Where is your conscience?

 

[Enoch111]

The truth is that everyone will worship the one who was born King of the Jews, which is Jesus, because everyone will believe in Christ with faith alone and be saved, that is guaranteed.

This scenario is not found in the Bible. There will be few who will enter the narrow gate and stay on the narrow way.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Maria Valtorta was shown by Jesus the scene of the Magi following the star, and at one point she sees and hears the eldest of the three describe their journey to Mary of Joseph, and she writes that she heard him say that each of them, unknown to each other, from three different points on the earth, studied and began to follow the star until meeting beyond the Dead Sea, then together following the star to Jerusalem. After leaving the Holy City and seeing the star reappear, they continued to follow it until it had "stopped over this house" (cf. Matt. 2:11), which was in Bethlehem of Judah and belonged to one of the twelve shepherds, Elias, who had adored the Messiah in a manger in a stable just outside the town nine to twelve months earlier (cf. Lk. 2:16). That night of the adoration of the shepherds was when Elias invited Joseph and Mary to live with him and his wife, Anne, where they remained until their escape to Egypt (cf. Matt. 2:13-15) (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I).

Maria Valtorta is not someone who has any influence outside of the Catholic Church.
The devil is a deceiver, so how do you know whether this woman was manipulated by satan to tell his lie instead of Bible truth?

The Bible is our only source of truth and it paints a completely different picture to the one promoted by an a church that promotes lies.

It's not stated in Matt. 2, or anywhere else in Scripture, that the Star was sent by satan. In fact, as you know, the Magi referred to the star as being the King of the Jew's star (Matt. 2:2).

Read Matt 2 and take note of the detail….

“After Jesus had been born in Bethlehem of Judea during the reign of King Herod, wise men traveled from the east and arrived in Jerusalem, inquiring, “Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw the rising of his star, and we have come to pay him homage.” (New Catholic Bible)

Who were those “wise men”?….they were Babylonian astrologers. They are called “magi” because magical arts were practiced by the Babylonians along with astrology which was banned under God law to his people. (Deut 18:9-12) They saw “the rising of his star”….something related to astrology. Who told them that this was “his star”….not God because the star led them to Jerusalem first, and to a murderous king….not Bethlehem where the child had been born.
How many “wise men” were there? The Bible does not give a number, only that there were three expensive gifts that they brought to pay homage to one born to be “King of the Jews”.

“On hearing about their inquiry, King Herod was greatly troubled, as was true of the whole of Jerusalem. . . . .Then Herod secretly summoned the wise men, and he ascertained from them the exact time of the star’s appearance, after which he sent them on to Bethlehem, saying: “Go forth and search diligently for the child. When you have found him, bring me word, so that I can go and pay him homage.” After receiving these instructions from the king, the wise men set out. And behold, the star that they had seen at its rising proceeded ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.“

The presence of the magi got the king and all Jerusalem in a troubled state of mind. Why? because the dynasty of kings in Herod’s line was to be passed onto his own sons, not to some obscure Jew born in Bethlehem. So he created a ruse in order to get the magi to betray his location….not to honor him, but to eliminate him from contention. This resulted in Herod’s command to murder of all the infants, two years of age and under. (V 16) But God was one step ahead of him, and relocated Joseph and Mary to Egypt.
After sending the magi out, the star did something amazing….it led them to the very house where Jesus was living with his parents, no longer at the stable but some time later.….it ”stopped” right above the house, proving that it was not sent by God, but by the devil in an attempt to have him killed. If God had sent the star it would have led them straight to Jesus.

So how accurate are those nativity scenes where the wise men are seen at the stable with the infant Jesus still in the manger…..? Lies!

“The sight of the star filled them with great joy, and when they entered the house they beheld the child with Mary his mother. Falling to their knees, they paid him homage. Then they opened their treasure chests and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. And since they had been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed for their own country by another route. (NCB)

It is obvious from this account that the Catholic church and most of Christendom has it all wrong…..do they know?…..do they even care that they are promoting lies? Yes, they do know, but they still promote them.

When was Jesus born? Did you know that the Bible gives no birth date…because Jews did not celebrate birthdays, as it was a pagan custom and they were warned not to adopt pagan practices. Birthdays had to do with horoscopes and the practice of astrology.

There is no much that you have been taught by your church that simply is not true.

 

[Nephesh]

The devil is a deceiver, so how do you know whether this woman was manipulated by satan to tell his lie instead of Bible truth?

Jesus has said that you shall know one by its fruit and that an evil tree cannot produce good fruit (Matt. 7:15-20). By God's Grace through faith, I believe that The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God, is an expansion of the four Gospels of Christ, further validated by the professionals who've analyzed Maria, as well as her literary works, concluding her to be credible from a spiritual, historical, mathematical, astronomical, geographical, agricultural, cartographical, etc., standpoint. Below are a few results of these studies:

(i) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

(ii) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

It seems that she has written down observations and facts that really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.

(iii) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.

(iv) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.

The Bible is our only source of truth...

God, not The Bible, is our only source of Truth, and He reveals it to whomever, whenever, wherever He wills.

Who were those “wise men”?….they were Babylonian astrologers.

How many “wise men” were there? The Bible does not give a number...

The reason why is that the four Gospels of Christ are incomplete. However, Jesus has expanded on scenes from those Gospels, such as this one, through His spokesperson Maria Valtorta. On February 28th, 1944, Jesus said that there were three Magi, each having set out from three different points on the earth, unknown to each other, "from the far away Indies," as in "meridional Asia, where Turkey, Afghanistan, and Persia are located in our geography" (cf. Matt. 2:2), and that then "the star guides them from the north, the east, and the south, and by a miracle of God, it proceeds for the three of them towards one point. And by another miracle of God, after many miles, it gathers them at that point, and by a further miracle, it anticipates the Pentecost Wisdom, bestowing on them the gift of understanding and making themselves understood, as it happens in Paradise, where only one language is spoken: God's." (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I)

Read Matt 2 and take note of the detail….

Who were those “wise men”?….they were Babylonian astrologers. They are called “magi” because magical arts were practiced by the Babylonians along with astrology which was banned under God law to his people. (Deut 18:9-12) They saw “the rising of his star”….something related to astrology. Who told them that this was “his star”….not God because the star led them to Jerusalem first, and to a murderous king….not Bethlehem where the child had been born.

After sending the magi out, the star ... led them to the very house where Jesus was living with his parents, no longer at the stable but some time later.….it ”stopped” right above the house, proving that it was not sent by God, but by the devil in an attempt to have him killed. If God had sent the star it would have led them straight to Jesus.

So how accurate are those nativity scenes where the wise men are seen at the stable with the infant Jesus still in the manger…..? Lies!

The Magi went to Jerusalem to ask King Herod where they could find the King of the Jews because they had come to worship Him, so Herod called for the chief priests and teachers of the law to answer, and they replied, "In Bethlehem of Judah, for this is what the prophets have written" (Matt. 2:1-2). Prior to the Magi departing for Bethlehem, Herod tells them to return with the King of the Jew's exact location, lying to them that it's so he may worship Him as well (Matt. 2:7). After departing Jerusalem, the star reappeared, and the Magi continued following it until it "stopped over the place where the Child was," which was a house in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:9-11). This corresponds with Maria Valtorta's firsthand account as a modern-day witness to this part of Jesus's life. She saw the Magi following the star, and at one point she saw and heard the eldest of them describe their journey to Mary of Joseph, and she wrote that she heard him say that each of them, unknown to each other, from three different points on the earth, studied and began to follow the star until meeting beyond the Dead Sea, then together following the star to Jerusalem. After departing Jerusalem, the star reappeared and they continued to follow it until it stopped over a house in Bethlehem (cf. Matt. 2:11), which belonged to one of the twelve shepherds, Elias, who had adored the Messiah in a manger in a stable just outside the town nine to twelve months earlier (cf. Lk. 2:16). That night of the adoration of the shepherds was when Elias invited Joseph and Mary to live with him and his wife, Anne, where they remained until their escape to Egypt (cf. Matt. 2:13-15). (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I)

In summary, three Magi began following the star—which they called "His Star" as in "King of the Jews" (Matt. 2:2)—when the Messiah was born, and they continued until it led them to a house in Bethlehem where they worshiped Him (Matt. 2:9-11) which by that time had been many months after His birth in a manger in a stable outside the town (Lk. 2:7). Additionally, this means that God, not satan, sent the star because it led them to where Jesus was, since you claimed, 'If God had sent the star, it would have led them straight to Jesus."

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus says that you shall know one by their fruits and that an evil tree cannot produce good fruit (Matt. 7:15-20). I know wholeheartedly
that Maria Valtorta was Jesus's spokesman from a spiritual, historical, mathematical, astronomical, geographical, agricultural, and cartographical standpoint, thanks to Him, further validated by the professionals in the aforementioned fields who have analyzed and tested the credibility of Maria Valtorta personally and her literary works.

Would it ever occur to you that the devil is the greatest con artist in existence, and that he was there to witness what took place throughout the whole of human history……he can give his agents (witting or unwitting) all the information he wants to, and pretends to be “an angel of light”.
How would you know?……What they claim will not be what the Scriptures teach…..the details will not mesh with what the rest of the scriptures teach. There is nothing in the Bible to verify a thing this woman said.
If God had wanted us to know the details, would he not have included them?

2 Cor 11:12-15….the apostle Paul wrote….
”And I shall continue to do just as I am doing at present in order to thwart the efforts of those who are seeking the opportunity to be regarded as my equals in the aspects they boast about. Such people are false apostles, dishonest workers who masquerade as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! Even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Therefore, it should not be considered unusual that his servants also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness. Their end will be appropriate to their deeds.” (NCB)

Its Satan’s ministers who can disguise themselves as “ministers of righteousness”.

The information relayed to Maria Valtorta might well be an accurate depiction of the times, but what if the message was skewed, using the scant details provided in scripture, to embellish them and present a completely different story……one not in accord with what that scripture says, as her account is not In line with Matthew’s account, which was provided by the holy spirit, I do not believer her, even a little.

The whole of Christendom has swallowed this lie, and given credence to a few duped astrologers who were clueless as to Satan’s attempt to use them to put the Christ child to death. The star that satan used is honored on the top of Christmas trees…yet it was the devil’s instrument of deception and death.
How can you be so gullible? Ask yourself if Christ ever celebrated his own birthday…..Jews didn’t. Jesus lived and died a Jew.

To whom did God reveal the birth of Christ? Not to the magi, but to Jewish shepherds who went to Bethlehem as they instructed them to do. It was the shepherds at the stable, not the magi.

The magi did not worship Jesus but as the New Catholic Bible says..”they paid him homage”.

 

[Pearl]

@Nephesh - What you have said has nothing at all to do with Christianity. It isn't in the bible. Jesus does not need a 'spokesperson' he is quite good at communicating through his Holy Spirit. I don't know what sort of cult or sect you must belong to to believe such stuff but it definitely is a false gospel. And we are warned about those.