ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
We'll agree to disagree.It was not "foreordained" as much as it was "foreknown" by an Omniscient God who has the ability to know the future as he knows the past.
A lot of prophesy recorded long before it happened, was predicted by God, rather than being caused by him, (because of God's foreknowledge.) God did not plan what his free willed children would do, but he could know it so as to warn his servants in advance of the outcome of any course of action that was against his laws or principles. Like James states.....
"Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, 3 knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith produces endurance. 4 But let endurance complete its work, so that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything."
Trials are character building, so we have the opportunity to benefit from the past experiences of others which are recorded in scripture.
Judas knew what Christ taught about honesty and greed, but given the responsibility of looking after the group's finances brought out the worst traits in Judas.....and he became a thief.
James went on to say....
"13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile,* gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death."
This was Judas' path, followed to the letter.
Because of prophesy, Jesus knew that one of his close associates would betray him, but in the beginning, he did not know who it was going to be. It wasn't until Judas began to manifest the traits of greed for financial gain, that Jesus was made aware of what would be his undoing. Luke says that satan emboldened Judas to carry out his betrayal. (Luke 22:3-6)
Matt 10:1
In context it says...
"While he was still speaking, look! a crowd, and the man called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them, and he approached Jesus to kiss him. 48 But Jesus said to him: “Judas, are you betraying the Son of man with a kiss?” 49 When those around him saw what was going to happen, they said: “Lord, should we strike with the sword?” 50 One of them even struck the slave of the high priest, taking off his right ear. 51 But in reply Jesus said: “That is enough.” And he touched the ear and healed him. 52 Jesus then said to the chief priests and captains of the temple and elders who had come there for him: “Did you come out with swords and clubs as against a robber? 53 While I was with you in the temple day after day, you did not lay your hands on me. But this is your hour and the authority of darkness.”
That "hour" of their "authority of darkness" was addressed to the chief priests and the elders and others whom Judas led to identify their target. It all fulfilled prophesy.
Judas cannot be forgiven because he sinned against the holy spirit....
Matt 10:1...."So he summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity."
He participated in acts under the power of holy spirit, and so betrayed more that just Jesus. He is "the son of perdition" (John 17:12)...."perdition" or "destruction" is "apōleia" which Strongs defines as...."actively, a destroying, utter destruction." Judas will never be seen again, and his suicide proves that he knew he was unforgivable.
Jesus knew what Judas was going to do and gave him leave to do it. Why? Because Jesus was born to die and seal with his blood the new covenant.
There was no other way for Jesus to become cursed under the law, carrying the sins of the world upon himself, than to be hanged, crucified on a tree.
He was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. And Judas was the bridge.
I don't see Judas as the son of perdition. Satan is.
Perdition=destruction?
John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
And I think the cursed betrayer is the Sadducee Caiaphas, who had Jesus arrested and wanted him put to death for blasphemy.
While Judas served God's purpose.
Think not? As popular and public as Jesus was, why did Caiaphas need Judas to identify Jesus?
How would Jesus have died on a tree otherwise were it not for Judas pointing him out for arrest? So the Sadducees could kill him before Passover using the Romans as executioners.
Jesus told the Disciples one among them would turn on him.
When Peter carried a sword to Gethsemane and that was how he cut the ear from the head of the temple guard later, do we really think Judas would have made it out of that upper room?
After Jesus told them one of them, turns out it was Judas, was going to turn him over to his enemies?
And remember too, Peter likely wasn't the only disciple who had a sword.
Jesus had told them to buy one. Sell what they had to if necessary.
When Peter later cut the ear from that guard do we think he'd have let Judas leave the upper room? After Jesus had told them what was going to happen? One among them was going to turn him over to his enemies. And then almost immediately Jesus commands Judas to go and do what he must do.
Caiaphas - New World Encyclopedia

Judas cursed himself by hanging himself from a tree. Before Jesus forgave them, all involved in his crucifixion, because they knew not what they did.
Judas did not know he was going to serve the Sadducees agenda to murder Jesus. He did not know what he was doing in that regard.
Which is why he returned to Caiaphas the 30 pieces of silver and then killed himself.
Interestingly, the "bride price" a father would charge her rapist,any man who laid with a virgin before marriage, so that the man who knew her before marriage could marry her was higher than what the Sadducees paid Judas. They knew this.
30 pieces of silver. Exodus 21:32.
30 shekles of silver was the price for a dead slave.
How old was Jesus when he began his ministry immediately after his baptism?
30.
Crucified 3 years later at 33.
Mark 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”