Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven

[Behold]

So the question was, IS JB saved, BECAUSE he Believed?
The Answer is No.
Believing does not mean Saved.

If you deny that God only accepts faith, as you doing ?????????, then you are in contradiction against the Gospel that teaches that faith alone is counted as righteousness. "justification by faith".

There is NO OTHER WAY to be accepted by God, then for you to BELIEVE.
God requires this so that by this Faith, God gives you Salvation, that is the GIFT Of God that is given to all who believe.

 

[Taken]

it is funny he sits there and tells us what sinners we are. While he continually day after day breaks the command "you shalt not bear false witness"

Typical pharisee

Well he did say...

I would sooner have dinner with unrighteous sinners of the world, who do not name the name of Christ.

Maybe he is picking up tips from his preferred dinner mates.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

There is a thread about

Christians have A rep (reputation) for taking one verse of the BIBLE and running people over with it.

This thread to some proves the point of that thread.

Because some here are very good at taking one or two verses out of the bible and running people over with them.
NO MATTER how out of context those verses can be proven to be being used in they bulldoze everything.
While alluding to the context takers of be being .......... dirty sinners
The very people that the Pharisees of Jesus's day accused Jesus of corrupting himself for being near.

Paul one of Writers of scriptures writes about still being imperfect.

But if nothing else this thread proves that at least some
Christians take one verse and run people over with it!
It also proves that those that do it deny the damsge they do with their little clipped out version of the Bible.

REPUTATION no it is fact!

Thankfully I can avoid the people even the places where these clipped Bible people hangout.

Why the Holy Spirit has made like a bull dog on this thread ?
Is I lived through a church lead by a clipped bible pastor. He preached his clipped bible verses very well. Used those to get the church to do things that many questioned. Used them to hurt several people out right. It was long after the Holy Spirit called me out of that church and sister church that was nearly as bad. That some of the sins if the clipped bible pastor were revealed. The revealed sins were not the little sins that even Jesus's love and my soul trying to return that love have never prevented. The revealed sins were great in your face sins hidden behind a vail of clipped bible verses, with a measure of we're all Christians here it isn't what it seems.
What made the hurt of being in this church of clipped Bibles worse was the friends some close friends that turned against me for questioning, what is going on here, why was I questioning anything God is in control through, well Phil.
After the truth, the sins were revealed I have reached out to those once friends. I have even heard mumbling of "I guess you heard you were right," barely audible mumbles before the scurry away and hide.
I pray.

Lord help us all.


Blessed by the spirt

Alfredthefifth

 

[Wrangler]

Peter was not saved when he denied Christ (who hadn’t been crucified yet).

There was no death, no burial, and no resurrection yet. Without these there is no salvation.

Some sort of mysticism? There is no salvation without believing in Christ. Peter believed this before denying Christ.

You position is that accepting Jesus as your lord and Savior means nothing, only that your acting along a time dependent funciton. If a person nowadays accepts Jesus as their lord and Savior (is saved, is born again) and sins again?
A. They sinned after being saved, after being born again.
B. Ex post facto, they were not "reall" saved and born again to begin with.

Ergo, "truly" born again, saved Christians are mystically made perfect and are now incapable of sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

…some here are very good at taking one or two verses out of the bible and running people over with them.

That’s quite an over the top take.

So then why don’t you use scripture and attempt to defend your doctrine? If it’s true my posts wouldn’t be a source of provocation.

Would you be equally offended if I ran you over with posts proclaiming that 2+2=6?

But there’s something about those warning passages that gets you guys out of sorts and turn you into unreasonable debaters.

 

[Wrangler]

Conversion.

Conversion from WHAT to WHAT?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You position is that accepting Jesus as your lord and Savior means nothing, only that your acting along a time dependent funciton.

“…if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:17)

Sins were not taken away until Christ was resurrected. Without the resurrection your faith is vain.

 

[Wrangler]

Everyone BORN, becomes the unconverted sinner.

"ALL have fallen short". "ALL Have sinned".

That means you, and me, and ALL people, humans...

It's so funny how you arbritarily apply your time dependent function. @Michiah-Imla quoted 3 Bible verses. All you do is ignore the meat and go back to your kindergarten doctrine, as he puts it.

@Behold

The righteousness of the unconverted sinner are as filthy rages. Isaiah 64:6

The righteousness of the converted saint are pleasing to God and brings glory to Him. 1 Peter 2:12; Matthew 5:16

Go read your Bible. It’s the only thing that can help you if you listen to it and unlearn the lies.

You are stuck in your kindergarten doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

There is a verse where Paul commands, not fleshy people, but those who accept Jesus as their lord to take all thoughts in obedience to Christ.

There is only one logical reason to say this. He knows those who have been saved by Christ could give into temptation to sin.

Notice how the OSAS folks just ignore Scripture and logic that doesn't fit with their doctrine?

 

[Wrangler]

“…if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:17)

Sins were not taken away until Christ was resurrected. Without the resurrection your faith is vain.

Context. This statement was about defending the gospel of the risen Savior, not OSAS doctrine's time dependent function.

 

[Wrangler]

Not going to debate Scripture with you ... Well known NONE of Jesus disciples BECAME effectively “Converted, saved, born again”, until AFTER Jesus ascended up to Heaven.

I understand you are not going to debate Scripture because you cannot. All you can do is assert your doctrine, cherry pick Scripture and ignore verses and logic that don't fit.

Hebrews 10:26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.​

Hebrews 10:26 only makes logical sense IF people who <follow Christ/recevied knowledge/are saved/are born again> are capable of sinning AFTER.

Otherwise you are parsing what the Bible does not, the synonymns inside <>. NOTE: Hebrews 10:26 does not say Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, you did not receive the knowledge in the first place.

 

[Taken]

If you deny that God only accepts faith, as you doing ?????????, then you are in contradiction against the Gospel that teaches that faith alone is counted as righteousness. "justification by faith".

There is NO OTHER WAY to be accepted by God, then for you to BELIEVE.
God requires this so that by this Faith, God gives you Salvation, that is the GIFT Of God that is given to all who believe.

Belief is ONE thing. Lots of people Believe.
And “IF” they can manage to “BELIEVE” to the Day they DIE...
***** THEY SHALL BE SAVED *****

It’s the “managing” to continue Believing to the Day they DIE.
**WARNINGS galore***
* everyone in this world is Subject to:
* Wicked conniving men!
* Evil roaming spirits!

DC continually broadcasts, wags their finger at Foreign Nations...
OF HOW WICKED, HOW corrupt, HOW oppressive, other Nations governance OVER the people is.
WHILE...
DC continually, DOES the same. However they wear their “corruption” as a Badge of Honor, “oppressing the people for the good, peace, safety and equality of all people” LOL, pfff.

Faith....is Gods gift to any man FOR HEARING the WORD of God.
Belief...is the mans FREEWILL, to Believe what he HEARS, or not.
A man freely choosing to BELIEVE Gods Word...IS A MANS “WORKS”.

A man WHO (despite the wicked men of the world and roaming evil spirits....consistently trying to SWAY THAT MAN AWAY from BELIEVING), IS that mans CONSTANT battle...
* BE SWAYED.....OR continue BELIEVING....and FACE the NEGATIVE Consequences...
(We are in sneak preview days...
Don’t trust, believe, go along with WICKED oppressive governing men, and WHAT? What is their “persecutions”? Fear mongering 24-7, Lose your job? Lose your home, because you have lost your job? Families argue over Losses? Turmoil within the families? Families split? Have a little money to buy? Oops Goods not available. The snowball effect is happening NOW, world wide.)

HOW LONG, of BEING daily bombarded with wicked men’s OPPRESSIVE Tactics, will it Take....BEFORE the man WILL “STOP doing the WORKS of God...TO BELIEVE IN HIM...
* And instead jump on board, believing IN MEN, to keep them safe, to keep them healthy, to keep peace, keep them housed and fed...by doling out scraps (they have stolen from others)?
Oh, Oh....yeah, yeah...the governing authorities, “the Saviors”... letting a man keep his home, pay him to not work, feed his family, paying them to tattle on others having family gatherings, going to church gatherings, freebie poison injections, busy themselves making more crisis’ and wars, more prohibitions, need for your sons to war DIE to keep your meager freebie life feeling so thankful for their new master daddy, caretaker and “savior”, which that man trusts, exalts, yields to and supports with his YES at the ballot box...yes, yes, yes...Freebies for everyone...

Well getting to the POINT...
BELIEF can wiggle and vary and CHANGE.
Either God IS your SAVIOR, FOREVER, or Man IS your SAVIOR “until” they run out of other people’s money TO DOLE out Freebie Scraps...
OR...their wars, injected poisons, have ended your life.

I covered the Gift of Faith FOR Hearing.
I covered the FREEWILL of man TO Believe.
I covered the man FREELY Believing is a mans WORKS...
I covered men Electing to choose men to Save their flesh bodily life.

What I did not cover, WAS...men ELECTING God to SAVE the WHOLE of a man...body, soul, spirit.
Faith, is a gift FROM God.
Works, is a mans FREEWILL to believe Gods Word or not.

* ELECTING God, is a mans FREEWILL to...”COMMIT” TO God.
Give their Complete ONCE and FOREVER “YES” vote (so to speak),
OF the Lord God.

It’s a ONE TIME trip for a man to GO to the ELECTION Ballot box (so to speak)...
It requires NO “paperwork”, NO “signature”.
There is NO “oops”, changed my mind.
There is NO “repetitive” next year, in four years, blah, blah, ELECTION.

It is a ONE TIME...”SERVICE” of ONE individual man, Making his own FREE ELECTION of the Lord God.

The fact is; Many men hear, receive faith, believe what they hear...
BUT NEVER FREELY CHOOSE (so to speak) ‘TO go to the ballot box and cast their ONE TIME ELECTION” of the Lord God.

Any man WHO believes, yet FAILS to FREELY MAKE their one time election of God.......ARE VULNERABLE, to the conniving tricks of wicked men and evil spirits OF the world.

IF...and that is a big IF a man manages to Believe AND keep believing until the DAY he DIES...THEN he WILL Become, by the Power of God...MADE SAV-eD.

SEE, the Requirement, to RECEIVE, Salvation?
A BODILY “DEATH”!!!

Now, turn your thoughts to the guy, WHO DOES, make that ONE TIME trip TO the (so to speak) Ballot Box...NAME His Lord God, Cast His ONE time ELECTION FOR his Lord God.

THEN WHAT? WHAT Happens IMMEDIATELY?
His sins for NOT having Believed, from his natural birth, and any time during his natural life-time...ARE FORGIVEN.
AND..AND..AND...the most important part???
.....CRUCIFIXION...!! BODILY DEATH of THAT man!!!

The REQUIREMENT of a BODILY DEATH, BeFORE receiving SALVATION, IS Satisfied, Accomplished.....According to Gods Order, Will, Way!

That man Accomplished the “enduring IF’, the Keep IN Belief, TO the DAY of his Bodily Death...AND THUS is Immediately SAV-ED.
Doesn’t matter...
* a man crucified WITH Jesus...
* a man believing until his body physically dies...
^ That is the crux of OSAS.

A man crucified with Jesus, A man believing to the day he physically dies.........NEITHER.......come back into their dead body’s so they can change their ELECTION!!!

The ballot (so to speak) Election was freely made by that man.
The bodily crucifixion was freely given by that man.
..IS God a LIAR, that He does not Faithfully KEEP His Word? God forbid!

ONCE a man IS saved.....IT IS FOREVER!
Believing Does NOT SAVE a man......ELECTION of KEEPING that Belief, saves a man.

@robert derrick

 

[Taken]

POST # 172

@marks
@ScottA
@Brakelite
@Eternally Grateful
@Alfredthefifth
@Wrangler
@Michiah-Imla
@devin553344
@robert derrick

 

[Taken]

Conversion from WHAT to WHAT?

Corrupt to uncorrupt.

 

[Wrangler]

Corrupt to uncorrupt.

Being uncorrupt does not mean ones is uncorruptable.

Being clean does not mean one can never get dirty again.

 

[Behold]

Belief is ONE thing. Lots of people Believe.
And “IF” they can manage to “BELIEVE” to the Day they DIE...
***** THEY SHALL BE SAVED *****

@robert derrick

You are not going to heaven because you "believe until you die".

You only go to heaven because God accepted your faith in Christ, to thereby give you forgiveness for all your sin, and then gave you the new birth.

its the BORN AGAIN, who are heading to God.
Just them.., and that is because they are already become "ONE WITH GOD".. "in Christ".

And water baptizm can't do that for you.

 

[Taken]

I understand you are not going to debate Scripture because you cannot. All you can do is assert your doctrine, cherry pick Scripture and ignore verses and logic that don't fit.

I do not choose to debate Scripture with you. (Choosing and Can’t Are not the same thing.)

I know which Scriptures apply to me, and which Scripture do not apply to me.

That knowledge and understanding is all tucked away in my heart.
That knowledge and understanding is OPEN for VIEW, to WE who have agreed upon that knowledge and understanding....expressly being...
The Lord God and myself.

You um...were not INCLUDED in that Agreement, nor were you given all the knowledge and understanding of that Agreement....

So, no...YOU “cherry picking” what Scriptures you would like to apply to me, discuss Logically......is completely irrelevant, moot, and has nothing to do with a Spiritual agreement made between the Lord God and myself.

​

 

[Taken]

Being uncorrupt does not mean ones is uncorruptable.

I don’t MAKE the change of Corrupt to un-Corrupted.
That is Gods Works. If you think Gods Works fail...You are welcome to have that conversation with God....maybe give Him some of your logical insight of how God Can improve His Works.

Being clean does not mean one can never get dirty again.

Again, you can have that conversation with God. Give Him some pointers on how His Cleansing of Dead Body’s Fails.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand you are not going to debate Scripture because you cannot. All you can do is assert your doctrine, cherry pick Scripture and ignore verses and logic that don't fit.

Hebrews 10:26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.​

Hebrews 10:26 only makes logical sense IF people who <follow Christ/recevied knowledge/are saved/are born again> are capable of sinning AFTER.

Otherwise you are parsing what the Bible does not, the synonymns inside <>. NOTE: Hebrews 10:26 does not say Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, you did not receive the knowledge in the first place.

this post makes no sense at all. what are you trying to say

 

[Eternally Grateful]

POST # 172

@marks
@ScottA
@Brakelite
@Eternally Grateful
@Alfredthefifth
@Wrangler
@Michiah-Imla
@devin553344
@robert derrick

I did not understand what he was trying to say