Why is God So Mean?

[Duckybill]

I never charged God with contradictions... I said the bible has contradictions...

Same thing.

 

[Robbie]

You left out the part where I said God isn't a book... and no it's not the same thing... because the bible isn't God... and the bible testifies to both the old and the New... the foundation of those opposing states being that according to the old we are condemned to death... and under the new we are given eternal life... if you can't see that as two opposing and yes contradictory states for humanity you're blind... you want to quit having to ignore contradictions while having to make up excuses for them just make your foundation Jesus and then you'll realize why those contradictions exist...

Because before Christ we were dead in our sins... and with Christ we are alive and forgiven... it's then that you'll truly thank Jesus for the bible contradicting itself when you see the old that contradicts the new because without Christ humanity was cursed to death... and under the new the curse is lifted to everlasting life...

And yes... cursed to death... and free from the curse and everlasting life is contradicting states for humanity to be in... thanks to Jesus Christ for making everything new... the old is done away with for those who believe...

 

[Duckybill]

You left out the part where I said God isn't a book... and no it's not the same thing... because the bible isn't God...

The Bible is God's Word. You are charging God with contradictions.

and the bible testifies to both the old and the New... the foundation of those opposing states being that according to the old we are condemned to death... and under the new we are given eternal life...

We are only guaranteed eternal life if we obey the New Covenant, the NT.

if you can't see that as two opposing and yes contradictory states for humanity you're blind... you want to quit having to ignore contradictions while having to make up excuses for them just make your foundation Jesus and then you'll realize why those contradictions exist...

God is wiser than us. No contradictions in the Bible.

Because before Christ we were dead in our sins... and with Christ we are alive and forgiven...

According to whom? The Bible that you charge erroneous???

it's then that you'll truly thank Jesus for the bible contradicting itself when you see the old that contradicts the new because without Christ humanity was cursed to death... and under the new the curse is lifted to everlasting life...

Thank God for errors in the Bible? Oh my.

And yes... cursed to death... and free from the curse and everlasting life is contradicting states for humanity to be in... thanks to Jesus Christ for making everything new... the old is done away with for those who believe...

Where are you getting this??? From the 'book of contradictions'???

 

[Robbie]

Jesus is God's Word... not a book... the foundation you've built on is why you can't hear or see... because without Christ in you... you don't have God's Word in you... no matter how much you read the scriptures... as Jesus told the Pharisees...

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus is God's Word... not a book... the foundation you've built on is why you can't hear or see... because without Christ in you... you don't have God's Word in you... no matter how much you read the scriptures... as Jesus told the Pharisees...

Then why do you quote from a book of contradictions, over and over???

 

[Robbie]

Because the contradictions are created by Christ changing everything on the cross... by removing the veil... by bringing a perfect revelation of the Father... by death being swallowed up by life... by the curse being lifted... so I don't trip on the contradictions between the old and the New... I celebrate the New while giving all glory and thanks to Jesus Christ... who is the Foundation I build on... and not a book...

I give thanks that life with Christ contradicts death without Christ... thank you Jesus for making all things new!!!

Good night Ducky...

 

[Duckybill]

Because the contradictions are created by Christ changing everything on the cross... by removing the veil... by bringing a perfect revelation of the Father... by death being swallowed up by life... by the curse being lifted... so I don't trip on the contradictions between the old and the New... I celebrate the New while giving all glory and thanks to Jesus Christ... who is the Foundation I build on... and not a book...

I give thanks that life with Christ contradicts death without Christ... thank you Jesus for making all things new!!!

Good night Ducky...

Don't you wonder why you keep citing a book of contradictions?

GN Robbie.

 

[Groundzero]

I never charged God with contradictions... I said the bible has contradictions... contrary to your beliefs... God is not a book... so you're mistaken...

God inspired the Bible.

 

[Rach1370]

Robbie, I do see where you are coming from, but truly...there are no contradictions in scripture. The whole OT points to the need for Christ, it shows again and again that God, in His wisdom and love, was steering human history towards what Jesus did on the cross for us. What Christ did does not make the OT and NT contradictory, it is merely the beginning of the story, and the end of it...a continuation. This is one of the very reasons why we say the Bible is so important and wonderful...it shows us this, shows us how God has again and again, in every generation, despite our rebellion, moved us closer to Jesus and the salvation we can have through Him.

 

[Robbie]

Come on Rach... we have God telling people to kill their enemies in the old testament... and then we have Christ telling people to love their enemies in the New... you seriously gonna tell me those aren't two contradicting ideas?

You have scriptures saying an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth in the old testament and then you have Christ in the New telling us that we've heard an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but instead to bless those that curse us and to do good to those that hate us ... you seriously gonna tell me those aren't two contradicting ideas?

You're not being real Rach... you're in denial...

The thing is for me... I have no problem with Christ not agreeing with the old... I don't believe in Jesus because the bible has no contradictions with Him... I believe Jesus because the Spirit has revealed to me that He is the Word of God... the perfect revelation of the Father... and as the Father commanded I hear Him alone... Moses and Elijah have vanished... and it's only Christ...

And then it's like Groundzero said in that other post about how it's OK that Solomon contradicted what Jesus made possible when those who had died did see the sun again when Solomon said that wouldn't happen because Solomon was speaking from a carnal mind... I mean isn't that a contradiction in itself? I mean if the whole bible is God's Word then how can anything in it be from a carnal mind when we know the carnal mind is at war with God? Yet even Paul Himself says in one of his letters that He's speaking as a man...

So I disagree and here's the deal... I have no desire to defend religion... my only desire is to make Christ known... and even though I would maybe use the bible to do so... I don't need the bible to make Him known... because I know Him personally and if someone removes the book from my hand... they don't remove Christ from my heart... and I'm not going to deny the contradictions in the bible because once that person reads the bible for themselves and sees God in the old telling people to kill their enemies and Christ in the new telling people to love them... they're gonna look at me as someone who isn't trustworthy... because yes... that is a contradiction...

I'd rather acknowledge those contradictions and help them to understand that we don't know God through the old dead covenant when men's hearts were hard... we know God through Christ alone... and it's only in Him alone that the veil is removed... and we can clearly see that God is love...

 

[FHII]

Now I'm going to go back and see just where and what I originally started! lol

Groundzero,

As far as I can tell, you can go back to post #19 in this topic, in which on August 11th, 2:40 AM, Robbie stated:

"I personally can relate to you because I've had many of those some accusations against God pop into my own head... and I to see that the bible contradicts itself... but Jesus to me is a perfect picture of Love... and He's my foundation... if I built my relationship with God on the bible... or christianity... or anything other than knowing Jesus I would have written God off long ago..."

It was you who replied (and I agree with your reply) that Robbie was wrong; that the Bible doesn't contradict itself and if it does, we are all lost because we can't rely on it. Aspen came along and wanted to know if the Bible was crucified (have no idea why he asked such a silly question). From there that snowball just got bigger and bigger.

Interesting thing is that Robbie said the Bible contradicts himself in this post, but in his last post he says Jesus doesn't contradict himself. Obviously he doesn't appear to believe the Bible was divinely inspired, much less the word of God.

 

[Robbie]

Where did I say Jesus contradicts Himself?

And we aren't lost without the scriptures... we are lost without Jesus... the Pharisees had the scriptures... and still rejected Jesus... and even though they searched for life in the scriptures Jesus told them they didn't have God's Word in them... He also said they couldn't find life in the scriptures but only in Him... and if the scriptures are God's Word how could the Pharisees be searching the scriptures and yet Jesus said they didn't have His Word in them?

You are mistaken FHII...

 

[FHII]

What I find truly remarkable is that this thread started with a question: "Why is God mean?" According to some, it appears the answer is "God isn't mean, the Bible is mean!" and thus, the Bible gets the blame. Never mind God who believes in rebukes, punishment and correction, and never mind disobediant man who kindles any wrath God may have.... It's the Bible to blame!

 

[Prentis]

What I find truly remarkable is that this thread started with a question: "Why is God mean?" According to some, it appears the answer is "God isn't mean, the Bible is mean!" and thus, the Bible gets the blame. Never mind God who believes in rebukes, punishment and correction, and never mind disobediant man who kindles any wrath God may have.... It's the Bible to blame!

Im sorry, but I've been following this thread quite closely and I don't believe that's what anyone said. It has nothing to do with the OP anymore :)

As for what many say, I see some twisting what Robbie is saying to try and accuse him, I also see some that misunderstand what he says.

The Bible is full of contradictions.

Romans 13:[sup]1[/sup] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. [sup]2[/sup] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

Acts 5:[sup]29[/sup] But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

So tell me, which one applies when and how?

When you arrive at a traffic, do you always drive right thru... Or do you always stop... Or does it depend on what color it has?

You must follow the Spirit. Otherwise you will not know when to revile a fool according to his folly, and when not to. We try to turn the words of God into a rule instead of understanding that there is a time for everything. Are we always joyous? Are we always mourning?

In one place the Bible says "it is BETTER to be in the house of mourning than the house of rejoicing". Then Paul says 'Rejoice ALWAYS in the Lord, I say it again, Rejoice!"

Which one applies when?

There is a time for everything, and if we do not follow the Spirit, we will not discern the times. Many times people try to kill Jesus, and he escapes. Then when the time has come, he lets them do with him as they please. Many times Paul is rescued by the Lord... Out of prison, from a poisonous snake... Then one day it's time for him to seal his testimony.

 

[THE Gypsy]

A seemingly "contradiction" (In this case OT v. NT.)


contradiction

a proposition, statement, or phrase that asserts or implies both the truth and falsity of something

a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions are inconsistent or contrary to one another

http://www.merriam-w...y/contradiction


Is NOT the same thing as "fulfillment" (In this case - of the law)

fulfillment

the act or process of fulfilling

http://www.merriam-w...=0&t=1313506025


IF a person is a serious follower of Christ and student of the Bible, I can guarantee you that, other than a commitment to Christ, in 5, 10, 15, 20 years they will not hold the same convictions that they do today. Is that because what they hold today is wrong? Not necessarily. It's called growth. Do you believe the exact same thing today that you did when you were 5 years old? Of course not. Why?

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1Corn 13:11.


If Christians cannot listen to what the other is saying, ask kindly for clarification if they don't fully understand the position of the other, how on earth is the "Army of God" going to be fit to participate effectively in the great commission?

 

[Robbie]

I personally don't really care how people want to rationalize it...

The bottom line is anyone who hasn't already made up in their mind that the bible doesn't contradict itself to the point of an unwillingness to acknowledge reality is going to say such things as Loving your enemies and killing your enemies are a contradiction.

And because I'm more interested in sharing Christ than defending the bible... I'm going to acknowledge that contradiction... and then go on to acknowledge that God can seem mean in the old and that God in the old is hard to understand which is why it's pointless to try and know God through the old as it's an unclear and veiled revelation of God... then I will share with them my beliefs that we can only see God perfectly through the unveiled revelation Who is Jesus Christ... and how it is in Christ alone that we truly understand that God is Love...

Scripture is not the only way to the Father... Jesus Christ is... He is the Living Word of God... not a book...

 

[Prentis]

Amen...

Only when we give up on our own human understanding, and look to God, in humilty and brokenness, for his eyes is the veil ripped from before our hearts. Then we can know him! :)

 

[Robbie]

Amen... and it's at that moment that we don't only have a unveiled revelation of the Father... but also the ruler of this world is judged... because when we see the Father clearly through Christ... we stop blaming Him for the evil that isn't from Him... and it's in that moment that we truly realize how important it is for our desire and prayer to be for His Kingdom to come and His will to be done on Earth as it is in Heaven... and that we desperately need Him to deliver us from the evil one... His is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever...

 

[FHII]

Im sorry, but I've been following this thread quite closely and I don't believe that's what anyone said. It has nothing to do with the OP anymore :)

As for what many say, I see some twisting what Robbie is saying to try and accuse him, I also see some that misunderstand what he says.

The Bible is full of contradictions.

Romans 13:[sup]1[/sup] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. [sup]2[/sup] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

Acts 5:[sup]29[/sup] But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

So tell me, which one applies when and how?

LOL!!!! The Holy Spirit tells me they are saying the same thing!!!!!

 

[Groundzero]

Im sorry, but I've been following this thread quite closely and I don't believe that's what anyone said. It has nothing to do with the OP anymore :)

As for what many say, I see some twisting what Robbie is saying to try and accuse him, I also see some that misunderstand what he says.

The Bible is full of contradictions.

Romans 13:[sup]1[/sup] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. [sup]2[/sup] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

Acts 5:[sup]29[/sup] But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.

So tell me, which one applies when and how?

When you arrive at a traffic, do you always drive right thru... Or do you always stop... Or does it depend on what color it has?

You must follow the Spirit. Otherwise you will not know when to revile a fool according to his folly, and when not to. We try to turn the words of God into a rule instead of understanding that there is a time for everything. Are we always joyous? Are we always mourning?

In one place the Bible says "it is BETTER to be in the house of mourning than the house of rejoicing". Then Paul says 'Rejoice ALWAYS in the Lord, I say it again, Rejoice!"

Which one applies when?

There is a time for everything, and if we do not follow the Spirit, we will not discern the times. Many times people try to kill Jesus, and he escapes. Then when the time has come, he lets them do with him as they please. Many times Paul is rescued by the Lord... Out of prison, from a poisonous snake... Then one day it's time for him to seal his testimony.

I am exiting here. Like FHII has said, this thing has snowballed. I have stated a view that gives the only reason why we must go to Scripture. If others are not interested, fine.

The 'contradiction', is it really contradicting? The apostles were faced with two choices. To obey man and disobey God, or disobey man and obey God. WHO DO YOU THINK WAS RIGHT?! I am going to say, obey God! Your example of the traffic lights doesn't really click. Does it disobey God if you stop at traffic lights? NO!!!! The apostles were faced with a situation where the delegated authority had stepped out into opposition against the ultimate authority. Who do you think should take priority? the ultimate. If the delegated authority is in line, however, with the ultimate authority, then there is no reason to disobey.

As to the rejoicing. What book are we looking at? Ecclesiastes. There is a truth in that book. Tell me, who is generally the one who sees what is coming? The one who is making merry or the one who is serious? Where do we find repentance? In tears or laughter? Paul is correct at the same time, Christians shouldn't be dull if they truly know Jesus, because they have something beyond compare that is out of this world! Isn't that something to be joyful about!?

I know take a sideline view.

LOL!!!! The Holy Spirit tells me they are saying the same thing!!!!!

True! That verse says that the only authority is from God! God told the disciples to preach, and that's exactly what they did, even though the rulers of the day didn't agree.