Why is God So Mean?

[FHII]

Fellowship is being more than friendly, like hanging out together, marrying ...

"Come our from among them and be ye separate"

I must give Duckybill and Groundzero a big AMEN on their stance of the Bible! Groundzero put forth a good point in that its strange to quote the Bible in order to say you don't believe it is the Word of God. Another point along the same lines is that when Jesus was tempted by Satan, he didn't make up new sayings or point to himself -- though he could have -- he said, "IT IS WRITTEN" and quoted the Bible. If using the scriptures was good enough for Jesus to use on Satan (when he could've just killed him on the spot or called down angels to do it), it's good enough for me to know there is something special about the scriptures.

There is nothing special about the leather cover of my Bible, the paper or the ink of my Bible. Physically, no different than one of my history books I have. Except yes, physically I believed they are blessed to be the leather, paper and ink because it was chosen material for something more excellent! But the Bible is a tool which produces wonderful results!

Anyone remember what happened when Paul went to Berea? The Bereans joyfully heard the teaching and searched the scriptures to see if Paul was correct! It was Paul's preaching that saved them, but the scriptures validated what Paul had said.



Good show on this point Duckybill, Groundzero and anyone else who stands up for the Bible as the Book that contains the Word of God!

 

[Prentis]

I must give Duckybill and Groundzero a big AMEN on their stance of the Bible! Groundzero put forth a good point in that its strange to quote the Bible in order to say you don't believe it is the Word of God. Another point along the same lines is that when Jesus was tempted by Satan, he didn't make up new sayings or point to himself -- though he could have -- he said, "IT IS WRITTEN" and quoted the Bible. If using the scriptures was good enough for Jesus to use on Satan (when he could've just killed him on the spot or called down angels to do it), it's good enough for me to know there is something special about the scriptures.

There is nothing special about the leather cover of my Bible, the paper or the ink of my Bible. Physically, no different than one of my history books I have. Except yes, physically I believed they are blessed to be the leather, paper and ink because it was chosen material for something more excellent! But the Bible is a tool which produces wonderful results!

Anyone remember what happened when Paul went to Berea? The Bereans joyfully heard the teaching and searched the scriptures to see if Paul was correct! It was Paul's preaching that saved them, but the scriptures validated what Paul had said.



Good show on this point Duckybill, Groundzero and anyone else who stands up for the Bible as the Book that contains the Word of God!

Ok. Im gonna get into this one. I take these types of debates with a grain of salt, and hope you all do too ;) ... I hope you wont be bothered by my barging in although I wasn't involved before!

I do indeed think the Bible is wonderful. I think it is great to study and holds many wonders. BUT, my argument is as follows; is the Bible the key? I say no.

The Pharisees studied the scriptures. Jesus studied the scriptures. On it's own that seems to show that just studying the scriptures is not the key. The Lord is the one who opens our understanding. And that is what we need. The Bible says that if anyone is lacking wisdom, he should ask the Lord. Notice, it doesn't say he should 'study harder', read the scriptures more. It says to ask the Lord. A little knowledge puffs up, and as someone recently told me, only God can both give a man understanding and knowledge AND make him wise. The story of Paul is and the Bereans is very interesting. I find the Bible is most useful in confirming what the Lord is showing us or being USED by the Lord to show us something. In that way, it's an amazing tool. As you said, Paul's words were VALIDATED by scripture. But if Paul was walking as Jesus, as in Jesus was walking in him, then the words Paul spoke were life and they were spirit. And that is what really matters.

I agree with Robbie here. What we need is the life of Jesus Christ in us. The Bible is a great tool for him to teach us about that life if we will let him, but ultimately this book just points to that life.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Ok. Im gonna get into this one. I take these types of debates with a grain of salt, and hope you all do too ;) ... I hope you wont be bothered by my barging in although I wasn't involved before!

I do indeed think the Bible is wonderful. I think it is great to study and holds many wonders. BUT, my argument is as follows; is the Bible the key? I say no.

The Pharisees studied the scriptures. Jesus studied the scriptures. On it's own that seems to show that just studying the scriptures is not the key. The Lord is the one who opens our understanding. And that is what we need. The Bible says that if anyone is lacking wisdom, he should ask the Lord. Notice, it doesn't say he should 'study harder', read the scriptures more. It says to ask the Lord. A little knowledge puffs up, and as someone recently told me, only God can both give a man understanding and knowledge AND make him wise. The story of Paul is and the Bereans is very interesting. I find the Bible is most useful in confirming what the Lord is showing us or being USED by the Lord to show us something. In that way, it's an amazing tool. As you said, Paul's words were VALIDATED by scripture. But if Paul was walking as Jesus, as in Jesus was walking in him, then the words Paul spoke were life and they were spirit. And that is what really matters.

I agree with Robbie here. What we need is the life of Jesus Christ in us. The Bible is a great tool for him to teach us about that life if we will let him, but ultimately this book just points to that life.

This is an interesting point.

I had a fascinating conversation with another Believer the other day. The following was included...

Satan, and his demons, know the Bible. Demons fear God. Satan, and his demons, believe in God. Satan goes before the throne of God. Satan, and his demons believe in Jesus. Obviously Satan, and his demons, are not Christian. What makes a Christian uniquely Christian?

 

[Prentis]

This is an interesting point.

I had a fascinating conversation with another Believer the other day. The following was included...

Satan, and his demons, know the Bible. Demons fear God. Satan, and his demons, believe in God. Satan goes before the throne of God. Satan, and his demons believe in Jesus. Obviously Satan, and his demons, are not Christian. What makes a Christian uniquely Christian?

That is also an interesting point.

I think what makes us Christian is that we rely on the life of Christ. We look to him. When we look to the Lord in all things, we are transformed into his image. It's something I experienced to a certain degree. Then I looked away and I became the worst thing one could be. Just so empty of his life. The devil believes in God, he goes before God, but he acts for his own purpose, uses his own power, and all that for his own glory. We can easily do the same. But we must learn to look to him in all things and seek his will, life, and give our life up for his glory. I think that is what makes us different from the devil.

I think we can fool ourselves into thinking we are christian by believing certain things and saying certain things, but if we do it for ourselves, and to promote ourselves, we are like the devil (we walk according to the same rule). That is why Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil. They claimed God, but walked for their own glory and in their own way. A christian can be just like that today!

 

[THE Gypsy]

That is also an interesting point.

I think what makes us Christian is that we rely on the life of Christ. We look to him. When we look to the Lord in all things, we are transformed into his image. It's something I experienced to a certain degree. Then I looked away and I became the worst thing one could be. Just so empty of his life. The devil believes in God, he goes before God, but he acts for his own purpose, uses his own power, and all that for his own glory. We can easily do the same. But we must learn to look to him in all things and seek his will, life, and give our life up for his glory. I think that is what makes us different from the devil.

I think we can fool ourselves into thinking we are christian by believing certain things and saying certain things, but if we do it for ourselves, and to promote ourselves, we are like the devil (we walk according to the same rule). That is why Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil. They claimed God, but walked for their own glory and in their own way. A christian can be just like that today!

That is one of the BEST delineations I have heard/seen.

 

[Robbie]

Ok grounzero... your behavior is getting kind of typical and predictable... this is a public forum so when I lay my foundation as Jesus alone and you continue to insist I have no foundation because I won't agree with your religion that is publicly slandering me... it is also baring false witness... I've said time and time again that Jesus alone is my foundation... if you knew what your book said you'd understand I'm in agreement with it... since no foundation can be laid other than Christ... the scriptures are not the foundation... Christ is... so then after insisting you're not slandering me you go on to say that everyone with a sound mind will think I'm an absolute idiot... I mean.. do you even realize the pattern you're following? Can you even hear or see your hypocrisy?

As far as the bible being the only place that proclaims Jesus died on the cross... are you serious? Jesus was being proclaimed before the bible was ever compiled... people were receiving testimony to the Word before Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John were ever written... and even today all kinds of people receive Jesus by believing a spoken testimony to Jesus before ever reading the bible... so you are greatly mistaken...

Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are just documented personal accounts... personal accounts came before the Mathew, Mark, Luke or John were ever written... never mind the bible being compiled...

When I first believed Jesus it wasn't because I had read the bible... or that someone had quoted scripture at me... it was through personal testimony of Jesus from people who I knew loved me and that I trusted... if you insist that the only way the message is reliable is if it's printed on paper with ink you must not believe in the Holy Spirit or the testimony of the believers... we believe through a passed on word that testifies to the Word... whether that's written with paper and ink or spoken by the mouth of a witness doesn't make it any more or less reliable. It's God calling us to Himself that gives us the revelation that the message is true. Not religion saying, "You can only trust it if it's in this book"

So at first I felt a little angry when you said the whole thing about me being an absolute idiot and knowing the manipulative way religious people act you'll probably say, "I didn't say you were an absolute idiot but that everyone will think you're an absolute idiot" but either way it's insinuating that I'm an absolute idiot. So I'd rather not continue talking to you. I understand the sentence you've passed on me... that I'm an absolute idiot and I have no foundation because I disagree with your religion... I will now shake the dust of my feet so to speak and walk away from this conversation. Never the less know this... the Kingdom of God has come near to you... I know you won't take that as credible because my words aren't written in a book... but my Lord didn't tell me to write my testimony to Him in a book... He just told me to proclaim it... so that's what I do.

And yes Duckybill... I am being consistent... Christ alone is my foundation... that will never change... there is no other foundation...

 

[Prentis]

I agree with you brother. Our foundation is to be Christ! We are to walk in his life!

It is not the readers of the word... (fill in the blank) ;)

 

[Duckybill]

And yes Duckybill... I am being consistent... Christ alone is my foundation... that will never change... there is no other foundation...

You charge the Bible with errors and then say you believe the Bible. Make up your mind.

 

[TeamJesus]

Praise the LORD we no longer live in the OLD testament, and that the LAW is fulfilled in CHRIST! HE is the ONLY one that is PERFECT! for we all have fallen SHORT of God's GLORY! THank you LORD that I am NOT perfect but a sinner who is SAVED by YOUR GRACE! Thank you LORD! that you LORD for this TRUTH! that in your EYES i am LOVED! thank you LORD that you DIED FOR THE WORLD! thank you Lord you died for the murder's! thank you LORD you DIED for the THEIF's! Thank you LORD you Died for the Adulterer's! Thank you Lord you DIED for ALL SIN! THANK YOU LORD you DIED for those WHO read THIS! Bless them LORD!

 

[aspen]

Ok. Im gonna get into this one. I take these types of debates with a grain of salt, and hope you all do too

... I hope you wont be bothered by my barging in although I wasn't involved before!

I do indeed think the Bible is wonderful. I think it is great to study and holds many wonders. BUT, my argument is as follows; is the Bible the key? I say no.

The Pharisees studied the scriptures. Jesus studied the scriptures. On it's own that seems to show that just studying the scriptures is not the key. The Lord is the one who opens our understanding. And that is what we need. The Bible says that if anyone is lacking wisdom, he should ask the Lord. Notice, it doesn't say he should 'study harder', read the scriptures more. It says to ask the Lord. A little knowledge puffs up, and as someone recently told me, only God can both give a man understanding and knowledge AND make him wise. The story of Paul is and the Bereans is very interesting. I find the Bible is most useful in confirming what the Lord is showing us or being USED by the Lord to show us something. In that way, it's an amazing tool. As you said, Paul's words were VALIDATED by scripture. But if Paul was walking as Jesus, as in Jesus was walking in him, then the words Paul spoke were life and they were spirit. And that is what really matters.

I agree with Robbie here. What we need is the life of Jesus Christ in us. The Bible is a great tool for him to teach us about that life if we will let him, but ultimately this book just points to that life.

I think I acciddently reported you Prentis - I just meant to respond - oops!

I think you make an important point in your post. The fact is, the Holy Spirit is the key to understanding the scriptures. Also, for centuries, the majority of Christians were illiterate! They relied on the Church to read the scriptures to them. There is nothing magical about opening the Bible and reading it for yourself - it is nice, but not a supernatural act that is somehow going to make you gain special knowledge.

 

[Prentis]

Yes. We like making idols of the tools or experiences God gives us instead of attaching ourselves to God himself.

We like creating beliefs and doctrines, which put us in control if they don't remain in the realm of faith. We need to walk in faith, and faith puts us in a place where we are not in control and we rely on God.

It says of Stephen that he saw the Father and Jesus at his right hand. He did not read about it or imagine it, he truly experienced it. And that is what we need, to experience the things of God.

We are so stuck on WWJD (what would Jesus do) or what Jesus did, but we need to look at what Jesus IS doing. Right now. Present tense. We need to find the Lord in the here and now and experience Him. We need to get with the Lord's will in the present and walk in his life. There is no other way to make the Kingdom a reality on this earth.

 

[aspen]

Yes. We like making idols of the tools or experiences God gives us instead of attaching ourselves to God himself.

We like creating beliefs and doctrines, which put us in control if they don't remain in the realm of faith. We need to walk in faith, and faith puts us in a place where we are not in control and we rely on God.

It says of Stephen that he saw the Father and Jesus at his right hand. He did not read about it or imagine it, he truly experienced it. And that is what we need, to experience the things of God.

We are so stuck on WWJD (what would Jesus do) or what Jesus did, but we need to look at what Jesus IS doing. Right now. Present tense. We need to find the Lord in the here and now and experience Him. We need to get with the Lord's will in the present and walk in his life. There is no other way to make the Kingdom a reality on this earth.

I love it! What is Jesus doing? Powerful!

 

[Fire-7]

That is also an interesting point.

I think what makes us Christian is that we rely on the life of Christ. We look to him. When we look to the Lord in all things, we are transformed into his image. It's something I experienced to a certain degree. Then I looked away and I became the worst thing one could be. Just so empty of his life. The devil believes in God, he goes before God, but he acts for his own purpose, uses his own power, and all that for his own glory. We can easily do the same. But we must learn to look to him in all things and seek his will, life, and give our life up for his glory. I think that is what makes us different from the devil.

I think we can fool ourselves into thinking we are christian by believing certain things and saying certain things, but if we do it for ourselves, and to promote ourselves, we are like the devil (we walk according to the same rule). That is why Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil. They claimed God, but walked for their own glory and in their own way. A christian can be just like that today!

You make so much sense here. I definitely bear witness with this.

 

[Duckybill]

The BIG problem is that Satan can act like Jesus to deceive. Without the Bible to uncover him we will certainly be deceived by Satan. Satan is a VERY religious fellow.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (ESV)
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

When you mock the Bible by calling it contradictions and myths you open the door to welcome Satan into your lives. He'll gladly act like Jesus for you.

 

[aspen]

The BIG problem is that Satan can act like Jesus to deceive. Without the Bible to uncover him we will certainly be deceived by Satan. Satan is a VERY religious fellow.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (ESV)
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

When you mock the Bible by calling it contradictions and myths you open the door to welcome Satan into your lives. He'll gladly act like Jesus for you.

I think the bigger problem, Ducky, is that your vision of God is cruel and vindictive - I can see why it would be difficult to distinguish God from Satan in your world. Seriously.

 

[Duckybill]

I think the bigger problem, Ducky, is that your vision of God is cruel and vindictive - I can see why it would be difficult to distinguish God from Satan in your world. Seriously.

It is YOUR problem Aspen. You have said that if God drowned everyone on earth but 8 then He is a monster.

Matthew 24:37-39 (NKJV)
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

You have called the God of the Bible a monster.

 

[TeamJesus]

cool since when did are we living under the law? whatever happened to GRACE?

duh

 

[aspen]

It is YOUR problem Aspen. You have said that if God drowned everyone on earth but 8 then He is a monster.

Matthew 24:37-39 (NKJV)
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

You have called the God of the Bible a monster.

You like to quote me out of context, so I will have to ask for a quote.

In any case, as you know, I refuse to worship a god that demands a higher moral standard from his creation than he is willing to adhere to. It would be immoral to do so.

If you really want to worship a god that uses death and destruction and evil to punish his creation for committing acts of death, destruction and evil; knock yourself out. I will continue to worship the true Triune God.

If I saw your god in judgment over me - I would have to honestly say - 'allow me to depart from you - I never knew you'

 

[Duckybill]

You like to quote me out of context, so I will have to ask for a quote.

Are you denying that you said that? You certainly did.

In any case, as you know, I refuse to worship a god that demands a higher moral standard from his creation than he is willing to adhere to. It would be immoral to do so.

If you really want to worship a god that uses death and destruction and evil to punish his creation for committing acts of death, destruction and evil; knock yourself out. I will continue to worship the true Triune God.

If I saw your god in judgment over me - I would have to honestly say - 'allow me to depart from you - I never knew you'

It's truly YOUR choice to reject the God of the Bible. It's a very bad one though. He offers mercy, but on His terms, not ours.

 

[7angels]

fire 7
i have looked at this g craige lewis and this is what i have found. what he preachers about is in the bible but what he does is put in his own reasoning. he puts it into his own understanding which is unscriptural. he judges people which is unscriptural. you are to walk in love and love one another. craige lewis seems to love those that follow him and hate everyone else. the word teaches ithat out of the mouth the heart speaks. if you are looking for a Good preacher then i would suggest 1. you find someone that teaches the word and does not preach the word. knowing why the word says what it says will help you come to understand the word better. 2. most importantly you need to look for the moving of the spirit. i could be wrong but i saw no signs, miracles, and wonders working within his church. the word states that signs, miracles, and wonders will follow those that believe. don't get me wrong you can be saved and go to heaven and never see the supernatural workings. i have been blessed to have a church that allows the Holy Spirit free rein to do whatever he wants. i have seen multiple physical healings, Glory dust(gold dust), demons cast out, people freed from additions, freed from depression, and numerous other miracles. the word says where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
i need to go now so i will get back to you on your other questions. see you all later and God bless