Why I'm Not a Theist Anymore

[amigo de christo]

Oh boy …seeing Willies photo was like a kick in the gut.

He’s been gone so long now…it was our great loss, but heavens blessing.

Willie missed all this Covid thing …lucky chap…can’t wait to see him again…

I guess i dont know who ol willie is . I think i remember .
But i will say this , ANY LAMB that is now WITH JESUS is in a far , far better place . And that my dear friend is a solid fact .
To depart and be with JESUS , as paul says , IS FAR GREATER .
TILL then , let us point to JESUS and stay planted in our bibles and in prayer and doing the things of our LORD .

 

[Truth OT]

You are familiar with the many accounts that do mention Jesus, many which are hostile to Christianity:

Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny the Younger, are all accounts I am very familiar with. None verify his deity, miracles, or even provide accounts of his activities. Extra-Biblical accounts of Jesus are just lacking.

Chapter and verse please.

_Please provide your evidence for this claim.

Just a couple to start with.

1. Scriptural Contradictions
- Jesus' birth year
Who's account is most accurate, Luke or Matthew?
Facts: The Census of Quirinius was a census of Judea taken by Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, Roman governor of Syria, in 6CE. According to Luke 2:1-5, Jesus was born when Quirinius was governor of Syria but according to Matthew in chapter 2, Jesus was born when during Herod's reign and Herod died in 4 BC, nearly 10 years earlier! Both can't be right......
- Has anyone ever seen God?
No (1 John 4:12, 1 Timothy 6:16)
Yes (Genesis 2, Exodus 33:11, Genesis 18:1)
- Do Children bear the sins of their fathers?
No (Ezekiel 18:20)
Yes (Exodus 20:5, Numbers 14:18)
2. Matthew's Misapplications
- Isaiah 7:14 was lifted from its context and errantly applied to Jesus by Matthew. The alleged virgin conception is a miraculous fulfillment of a non-existent prophecy. Isaiah’s words have nothing to do with the conception of Jesus whatsoever but rather, about an event in Isaiah’s own time! Read the context of Isaiah 14 for yourself.
- Hosea 11:1-2 was quoted by Matthew as Messianic in Matthew 2:15 when it clearly is not as the "son" referenced in Hosea is described as follows: "the more they were called, the more they went away from me." Doesn't sound much like Jesus, does it????

 

[Truth OT]

Your real problem, I suspect, is that in your Christian phase you assumed the unbiblical teaching that if you repent and believe the Gospel, then the Holy Spirit automatically dwells within you.

Sort of. I was convinced that I had received the gift of the Holy Spirit after believing the gospel, repenting, and being baptized into Christ per Acts 2:38. Do you object to what the texts declares about the receipt of the HG?

(1) How can Jesus' resurrection be confidently linked to eyewitness testimony?

It hasn't been.

(2) What is the evidence for Jesus' status as healer?

Biblical narrative written almost a generation or more after said events.

(3) How could your prior spiritual quest presume inspired biblical inerrancy when:
(a) the Bible never even claims to be inerrant

Good question. II Timothy 3:16 is the best answer I can give.

(b) the NT claims about biblical inspiration apply only to the OT because the NT did not even exist as an agreed upon collection of books until around 200 AD.

Makes sense to me.

 

[2bme]

I guess some back story is necessary so here goes. I was raised in a God-fearing home in a community of neighbors that were all believers as well. I spend my preteen years as a member of the neighborhood Missionary Baptist Church where I was very active in service. I was in the choir, led the Jr. Devotionals, and was pegged by the pastor as a future successor to him because i would often imitate him. Around the age of 11 I began to question whether the church I was a part of was actually the church mentioned in the New Testament. After much prayer, study, and influence from non-immediate family members, I concluded that my church was in error and I needed to join a congregation that valued the Lord's will above man's traditions. I was then baptized for the second time in my life on March 3rd, 1991 and subsequently placed my membership in a local Church of Christ congregation. My parents initially flipped out and refused to let me attend, but after a couple months of my zeal and conviction still being unwavored, they relented and each Sunday morning and Wednesday I'd catch a ride to service with on of the Elders and his family.

Any specific reason your parents flipped out?

 

[Windmill Charge]

1. Scriptural Contradictions
- Jesus' birth year
Who's account is most accurate, Luke or Matthew?
Facts: The Census of Quirinius was a census of Judea taken by Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, Roman governor of Syria, in 6CE. According to Luke 2:1-5, Jesus was born when Quirinius was governor of Syria but according to Matthew in chapter 2, Jesus was born when during Herod's reign and Herod died in 4 BC, nearly 10 years earlier! Both can't be right......

The question of the census was answered bt Sir William Micaheal Ramsay. Quirinus was serving in syria at that time and would havehad the authority and role to order such a cencus.
- Has anyone ever seen God?
No (1 John 4:12, 1 Timothy 6:16)
Yes (Genesis 2, Exodus 33:11, Genesis 18:1)
Both answers are correct. No one has seen God the Father, but in what is cal a theophany Jesus has appeared to men as God. He is after al God the Son.
- Do Children bear the sins of their fathers?
No (Ezekiel 18:20)
Yes (Exodus 20:5, Numbers 14:18)

Look at who is talking. I Exodus it is Moses addressing God, not God speaking.
Numbers it is part of a legal code, the ten commandments, and yes God says children will pay to the third or forth generation for there fathers sins, interestingly you ignore the promise of blessings to a thousand generations.
As God is not unjust or biased in how he applies justice clearly there is a responcibility for each child/generation to obey God, the blessing is for those who obey so it follows that those who do not wil also suffer Gods wrath.

2. Matthew's Misapplications
- Isaiah 7:14 was lifted from its context and errantly applied to Jesus by Matthew. The alleged virgin conception is a miraculous fulfillment of a non-existent prophecy. Isaiah’s words have nothing to do with the conception of Jesus whatsoever but rather, about an event in Isaiah’s own time! Read the context of Isaiah 14 for yourself.
- Hosea 11:1-2 was quoted by Matthew as Messianic in Matthew 2:15 when it clearly is not as the "son" referenced in Hosea is described as follows: "the more they were called, the more they went away from me."
This was proclaimed to a jewish audience who were familier with the talmud and would have picked up on any discrepencies.
Doesn't sound much like Jesus, does it???

These are very petty reasons for rejecting Christianity, may I suggest you check out William lain Craig's website reasonablefaith, a link:-
Independent Sources of the Empty Tomb | Reasonable Faith

Where he tackles objections to the empty tomb.

 

[Brakelite]

While Christianity as a theory, and the Bible as a book, may be intellectually argued, defended, critiqued, and denied, refused, or believed, to which thus far this thread has limited it's discussion.
What we have not heard is testimony to Christ operating personally and intimately in the life of the believer. History is riddled with personal testimony from individuals at all levels of society, from the academic to the simple, how God has, quote,
KJV Hebrews 11:32-40
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

... And all that before Paul testified. The last 2000 years has revealed infinitely more testimony and eye witness evidence of God's faithfulness, care and love.
I couldn't help but notice that such was missing from your story. I find that sad. I don't know why it's missing, but it isn't missing because God doesn't exist. That you haven't met Him is something only you can answer.

 

[Truth OT]

What we have not heard is testimony to Christ operating personally and intimately in the life of the believer.

Personal anecdotal testimonies are of little value when searching for truth as they lend to perception subjectivity and personal biases. I was a prime example of someone with such a bias as I KNEW in my heart I had a personal relationship with the Lord for years. Such a belief turned out to be no more than, a belief.

 

[Truth OT]

These are very petty reasons for rejecting Christianity

We disagree. The foundation of Christianity is the gospel of the Christ and the gospel is laid out in the scriptures. If the scriptures aren't FULLY trustworthy then the message therein becomes doubtful, especially when supernatural claims are asserted.

 

[Truth OT]

Any specific reason your parents flipped out?

They thought the church I joined was a cult.

 

[Brakelite]

Personal anecdotal testimonies are of little value when searching for truth as they lend to perception subjectivity and personal biases. I was a prime example of someone with such a bias as I KNEW in my heart I had a personal relationship with the Lord for years. Such a belief turned out to be no more than, a belief.

For you obviously just a belief. I believe you have a mother and father. You know you do. But then your testimony is of little value because of personal biases.

 

[2bme]

They thought the church I joined was a cult.

What is the Church of Christ? Churches of Christ?

 

[Windmill Charge]

We disagree. The foundation of Christianity is the gospel of the Christ and the gospel is laid out in the scriptures. If the scriptures aren't FULLY trustworthy then the message therein becomes doubtful, especially when supernatural claims are asserted.

Yes we do because a Christian only has to provide an answer that is reasonable, that is something I have done.

There is only one valid reason for rejecting Christianity and that is because one can demonstrate that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

 

[2bme]

Yes we do because a Christian only has to provide an answer that is reasonable, that is something I have done.

There is only one valid reason for rejecting Christianity and that is because one can demonstrate that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Can you prove that Jesus resurrection did actually happen?

(Except you must provide historical evidence for such an account outside of the Biblical texts themselves)

I challenge you and all Christian's this.

 

[JohnPaul]

I guess some back story is necessary so here goes. I was raised in a God-fearing home in a community of neighbors that were all believers as well. I spend my preteen years as a member of the neighborhood Missionary Baptist Church where I was very active in service. I was in the choir, led the Jr. Devotionals, and was pegged by the pastor as a future successor to him because i would often imitate him. Around the age of 11 I began to question whether the church I was a part of was actually the church mentioned in the New Testament. After much prayer, study, and influence from non-immediate family members, I concluded that my church was in error and I needed to join a congregation that valued the Lord's will above man's traditions. I was then baptized for the second time in my life on March 3rd, 1991 and subsequently placed my membership in a local Church of Christ congregation. My parents initially flipped out and refused to let me attend, but after a couple months of my zeal and conviction still being unwavored, they relented and each Sunday morning and Wednesday I'd catch a ride to service with on of the Elders and his family.

I don't go to Church anymore, If I were to choose a Church it would have to be one were the Pastor didn't differentiate from the Bible and twisted things his own way, and it would have to be strictly against allowing homosexuals, transgenders, Bisexuals and transsexuals and anything that falls under the LGTB banner in attending the church, no Rainbow flags hanging from the building, nothing, it would have to adhere to the true word of God written in both the Old Testament and New Testament.

They are so hard to find, if you allow a Rainbow flag to hang from your house of worship and allow the above deviants into your house of worship, unless they are seeking repentance and remain celibate from their deviant acts, then you are not a real Church, but a house of Satan.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Can you prove that Jesus resurrection did actually happen?

(Except you must provide historical evidence for such an account outside of the Biblical texts themselves)

I challenge you and all Christian's this.

I don't have to prove it.
Historians, including atheist historians have already done so.
read:-
https://winteryknight.com/2021/10/2...-that-1-corinthians-15-is-reliable-history-4/

By the way historian accept the authority and accuracy of many NT books.

 

[JohnPaul]

I don't have to prove it.
Historians, including atheist historians have already done so.
read:-
https://winteryknight.com/2021/10/2...-that-1-corinthians-15-is-reliable-history-4/

By the way historian accept the authority and accuracy of many NT books.

No proof is needed for the Lord has risen and is with us, for those who do not believe so, believe in aliens and science fiction and Darwinism.

Don't waste your time with this person, for he or she is here to create havoc.

 

[Windmill Charge]

No proof is needed for the Lord has risen and is with us, for those who do not believe so, believe in aliens and science fiction and Darwinism.

Don't waste your time with this person, for he or she is here to create havoc.

We are commanded to Always be ready to give a REASON for our faith.

equally we can expect those we are talking to to give a reason for what they believe.

Faith whether in Jesus, or in unbelief has to be based on reason otherwise it is unreasonable to believe it.

 

[JohnPaul]

We are commanded to Always be ready to give a REASON for our faith.

equally we can expect those we are talking to to give a reason for what they believe.

Faith whether in Jesus, or in unbelief has to be based on reason otherwise it is unreasonable to believe it.

I simply blindly believe in my Lord Savior and the Father God Almighty, I choose not to argue with people who don't believe.

You have the energy to do so, good for you then brother and God bless you, there is no convincing these people, I tried once and the person drained my energy in trying to prove to him, till I said to him, believe what you want and I'm free to believe in the truth, yet this person believed in aliens and that we descended from monkeys.

 

[bbyrd009]

Personal anecdotal testimonies are of little value when searching for truth as they lend to perception subjectivity and personal biases. I was a prime example of someone with such a bias as I KNEW in my heart I had a personal relationship with the Lord for years. Such a belief turned out to be no more than, a belief.

so…i would contemplate the similarity in “no longer a theist” and wrestling with God, likely the same thing?

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you prove that Jesus resurrection did actually happen?

(Except you must provide historical evidence for such an account outside of the Biblical texts themselves)

I challenge you and all Christian's this.

hmm, what if those were never meant to be taken literally though