Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[mjrhealth]

Do you ever actually R*E*A*D the posts and follow the conversation?
I didn't think so . . .

Yep but they where your own words and right to teh point. I know so.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yep but they where your own words and right to teh point. I know so.

???
Speaking in misspelled riddles again?

 

[Helen]

I dont believe you will find that is true for all of them, as for any religion created by men, hating religion is not hating the people, no matter how some twist it. And what is one to do, when our Lords young lambs come prancing around, enjoying the new freedom the found in Christ, only to recognize the wolf, for who he is, than when the call out, "hey wolf, i see you", and before they can turn and run, he has them and there legs are ripped off, and that lovey life that was in them is snuffed out.

I care not for teh wolf, he has chosen to be what he is, but we should care for our Lords young lambs and His sheep, for they belong to Him alone, and no man will ever own them. But woe be to that wolf who slays our Lords sheep,

Mat_18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

The bible tells us to,"resist teh devil and he will flee", seems sometimes he just fights harder.

Well , all I can say is "we shall see".
Persecution is on the rise for all Christians that name the name of Christ..be they JW, Mormon's, RCC etc etc each of us has blood that is red.
The persecutor's won't care one bit what name is on the banner that fly's over us. But, I am not out to convince anyone else.

I just see no fruit in the constant arguing. The power is always in the Spirit, not in hot angry words... it gives you something to do, but like a rocking chair, it actually gets you nowhere.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well , all I can say is "we shall see".
Persecution is on the rise for all Christians that name the name of Christ..be they JW, Mormon's, RCC etc etc each of us has blood that is red.
The persecutor's won't care one bit what name is on the banner that fly's over us. But, I am not out to convince anyone else.

I just see no fruit in the constant arguing. The power is always in the Spirit, not in hot angry words... it gives you something to do, but like a rocking chair, it actually gets you nowhere.

As i said before, dont do it for Him, and there is a reason why teh bible says,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

and

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

We can only serve one master, it Christ or men, cant serve both.

Just remember who it is who is persecuting our Lord and His Ecclesia, even today, it is mens religions and his churches.

Remember Saul.

Act_9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

its still happening today.

 

[Helen]

Act_9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

its still happening today.

But we ain't seen nothing yet....and I am not as convinced as you are, as to where it comes from...

Time will tell which of us has the truth on that point! :)

 

[mjrhealth]

But we ain't seen nothing yet....and I am not as convinced as you are, as to where it comes from...

Time will tell which of us has the truth on that point! :)

Yep its going to get a lot worse. we havnt even begun to see the evil in mens hearts.

 

[mjrhealth]

But we ain't seen nothing yet....and I am not as convinced as you are, as to where it comes from...

Time will tell which of us has the truth on that point! :)

But your right, time to move on, they want teh devil they can have him. Im tired of standing up. I might just sit down a while. A very long while.

 

[Helen]

But your right, time to move on, they want teh devil they can have him. Im tired of standing up. I might just sit down a while. A very long while.

We all do that from time to time. :)

 

[brakelite]

Look - as long as you condemn my posts without condemning the lies, myths and falsehoods that I am responding to - then your position is nothing but a giant hypocrisy. Sorry if the truth hurts.

This has nothing do to with having a penchant for creating problems where "none" exist.
ANY time somebody falsely attacks somebody or something - they have created a problem.

Don't shoot the messenger for exposing those lie. Instead, expose the lies . . .

First...I was not condemning your posts...another example of you raising a problem where there isn't one. My criticism, and I'm saying this for the third or fourth time, is solely directed at the manner which you use in "exposing the lies". I am NOT criticising you for exposing them.
Second...I am not joining you in your exposition. For one reason.
I don't know them to be lies. I will not criticise anyone on a subject for which I have no or only limited knowledge.

That said, I do have a certain knowledge and understanding of Catholicism. Having been raised in that faith...an altar boy in my youth...all my education from Catholic brothers or priests 42 years of study and reading since my conversion to Jesus in 1976 has given me a wealth of experience and knowledge from sources both Catholic, Protestant, and secular. I would NOT describe myself as an expert...but nor am I ignorant of the Catholic mindset, nor the history of the Roman papacy.
I love the Catholic people. Many have a wonderful zeal for the church, and a true heart for Jesus, and a great reverence for the sacred. But I also know many to be superstitious, steeped in error, bound up in many wicked addictions, particularly alcohol, gambling and tobacco, and relying on ritual and works to gain heaven. I also know that not many, but most Catholics are completely in the dark when it comes to discussing their church's history. They operate from an auto-immune system that defaults to a "protect Mother" at all costs mode, irregardless of truth. I get that. I understand that. The dark skeletons in the papal closets are not a pretty sight. And there are lots of them. It is not an easy thing to front up to and admit to. It means being vulnerable...transparent. And the same skeletons lurk in many Protestant closets as well. But no-one is asking you to take responsibility for the past. We must deal with the present, and prepare for tomorrow. My second biggest beef with the Vatican is that during the dark ages, they allowed canons and teachings to be written into their legislative books that in their warped corrupted minds, justified wholesale murder of those whom disagreed with them over theology and authority, and then empowered and encouraged the state to hand out and commit executions on behalf of the church. I said that was my second biggest beef. My biggest beef is that those very canons and laws which recommended corporal punishment for so called heresy, are still on those books, despite the so-called apologies for the past, and may...no....will be used in the future when the Vatican once again has the political power and popular mandate to implement them again. Prophecy clearly tells us this. And this may come as a surprise to you, but Protestants will assist Rome in the coming persecutions of these last days. The coming religious wars will not be Islam against Christianity or Russia against Israel or the Arabs against Israel, or America against North Korea, China, Russia, or the Cook Islands.
The final battle, Armageddon, between humans on this planet, and to which prophecy points and to which current events are leading, on one side are a combined religious composite occult counterfeit Christian global union of church and state headed by the Roman pontiff (known as 'all the nations' of Matt. 24:9 that hate and the scarlet whore riding the state beast of Revelation 17 along with her apostate Protestant daughters as well as Islam, Hindus and every other imaginable false faith on the planet)against a small totally outnumbered remnant of faithful true believers who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus (known as the 'you' in Matt 24:9 and whose names are written in the Lamb's book in Revel. 13:8, and mentioned in Revel. 12:17 and Revel. 14:12.)
I am simply doing my duty as a watchman on the walls of Zion. I see a danger looming that is soon to take the world by storm. It is not coming from over the horizon in the form of a future antichrist individual who parks himself in some future Jewish temple; a myth created by the Jesuits in the 16th century. The real and present danger is leaning over the back fence of most people on the planet inviting everyone to her coming barbecue. She is a smiling monolithic power-hungry monster pretending to be Christian and sucking in formerly Protestant ministers and denominations through the lie that she is no longer the vicious cruel killing machine she once was. She's a lying whore committing spiritual adultery with the kings of the earth and about to jump from a great height upon all who love the Truth. But as Revelation 14:6-12 succinctly points out...she is fallen, fallen. And soon praise God she will be destroyed at the second coming and millions of martyrs who died at her hands will finally be vindicated for their stand for truth and justice.
My counsel to you my friend is to seek the truth as for lost treasure and stop being offended at everything others tell you.

 

[Helen]

@brakelite

Amen ...for I like 'the spirit' in which you posted. It has the heart of caring, rather than condemnation.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
Melchizedek was God's high priest in Abraham's day. (Gen 14:18-20, Heb 5:10)

Mel, along with Abraham, existed prior to the curses listed in the covenanted
law that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

● Deut 5:2-4 . .Yhvh our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Yhvh did
not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us
alive here today.

This is a very, very important detail to note seeing as how the covenant's
law wasn't set up to be enforced ex post facto; i.e. it isn't retroactive.

● Gal 3:17. . The law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward,
does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the
promise.

Enacting the Jews' covenant after their paterfamilias' time, instead of before
him or with him, was done to protect Abraham's covenant from his
posterity's curse-worthy failures to comply with their own covenant. In other
words; no matter how many times, nor in how many ways, Abraham's
posterity breaks the laws of their own covenant, they cannot endanger the
fulfillment of their father's covenant; which is a really good thing because
otherwise neither Christ nor his believing followers would benefit from one of
the promises God made in Abraham's covenant.

● Gal 3:8 . . Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the
Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, “Through you
shall all the nations be blessed.” (cf. Gen 12:3)

Continuing:

● Rom 4:15 . .The law produces wrath; but where there is no law, neither is
there violation.

In other words: where there is no law, there is no law to break. However;
it's not saying that things like dishonesty weren't sins back in those days
because they were.

● Rom 5:13a . . Up to the time of the law, sin was in the world,

Rom 4:15 is only saying that seeing as how God hadn't as yet enacted a law
in Abraham's day that pronounces a curse upon dishonesty, then whenever
Abraham lied; God didn't write him up for it.

● Rom 5:13b . . . Sin is not accounted when there is no law.

The koiné Greek word translated "accounted" is ellogeo (el-log-eh'-o) which
essentially speaks of keeping records.

Now, according to CCC 1858; it is a grave matter for Catholics to break any
one of the Ten Commandments. In other words; it is hell-worthy.

There's a fatal flaw in that rule. Know what it is? Well; the Ten
Commandments weren't covenanted law in Melchizedek's day; nor were
there any covenanted curses for breaking them; i.e. breaking the Ten
Commandments within the scope of Mel's priesthood wasn't hell-worthy. So
then, seeing as how Christ's priesthood is patterned after Mel's (Ps 110:4,
Heb 5:1-7:28), then breaking the Ten Commandments isn't hell-worthy
within the scope of Christ's priesthood either.

Bottom line: When a religion such as Roman Catholicism makes its
followers' safety from hell dependent upon compliance with the Ten
commandments, they have shunned Christ's priesthood and placed their
followers within the scope of Aaron's priesthood-- i.e. within the jurisdiction
of the curses listed in the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God
as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; a covenant that
condemns people to hell quicker, and with more efficiency, than anything I
can think of.

/

 

[bbyrd009]

breaking the Ten
Commandments within the scope of Mel's priesthood wasn't hell-worthy. So
then, seeing as how Christ's priesthood is patterned after Mel's (Ps 110:4,
Heb 5:1-7:28), then breaking the Ten Commandments isn't hell-worthy
within the scope of Christ's priesthood either.

yikes

 

[BreadOfLife]

First...I was not condemning your posts...another example of you raising a problem where there isn't one. My criticism, and I'm saying this for the third or fourth time, is solely directed at the manner which you use in "exposing the lies". I am NOT criticising you for exposing them.
Second...I am not joining you in your exposition. For one reason.
I don't know them to be lies. I will not criticise anyone on a subject for which I have no or only limited knowledge.

That said, I do have a certain knowledge and understanding of Catholicism. Having been raised in that faith...an altar boy in my youth...all my education from Catholic brothers or priests 42 years of study and reading since my conversion to Jesus in 1976 has given me a wealth of experience and knowledge from sources both Catholic, Protestant, and secular. I would NOT describe myself as an expert...but nor am I ignorant of the Catholic mindset, nor the history of the Roman papacy.
I love the Catholic people. Many have a wonderful zeal for the church, and a true heart for Jesus, and a great reverence for the sacred. But I also know many to be superstitious, steeped in error, bound up in many wicked addictions, particularly alcohol, gambling and tobacco, and relying on ritual and works to gain heaven. I also know that not many, but most Catholics are completely in the dark when it comes to discussing their church's history. They operate from an auto-immune system that defaults to a "protect Mother" at all costs mode, irregardless of truth. I get that. I understand that. The dark skeletons in the papal closets are not a pretty sight. And there are lots of them. It is not an easy thing to front up to and admit to. It means being vulnerable...transparent. And the same skeletons lurk in many Protestant closets as well. But no-one is asking you to take responsibility for the past. We must deal with the present, and prepare for tomorrow. My second biggest beef with the Vatican is that during the dark ages, they allowed canons and teachings to be written into their legislative books that in their warped corrupted minds, justified wholesale murder of those whom disagreed with them over theology and authority, and then empowered and encouraged the state to hand out and commit executions on behalf of the church. I said that was my second biggest beef. My biggest beef is that those very canons and laws which recommended corporal punishment for so called heresy, are still on those books, despite the so-called apologies for the past, and may...no....will be used in the future when the Vatican once again has the political power and popular mandate to implement them again. Prophecy clearly tells us this. And this may come as a surprise to you, but Protestants will assist Rome in the coming persecutions of these last days. The coming religious wars will not be Islam against Christianity or Russia against Israel or the Arabs against Israel, or America against North Korea, China, Russia, or the Cook Islands.
The final battle, Armageddon, between humans on this planet, and to which prophecy points and to which current events are leading, on one side are a combined religious composite occult counterfeit Christian global union of church and state headed by the Roman pontiff (known as 'all the nations' of Matt. 24:9 that hate and the scarlet whore riding the state beast of Revelation 17 along with her apostate Protestant daughters as well as Islam, Hindus and every other imaginable false faith on the planet)against a small totally outnumbered remnant of faithful true believers who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus (known as the 'you' in Matt 24:9 and whose names are written in the Lamb's book in Revel. 13:8, and mentioned in Revel. 12:17 and Revel. 14:12.)
I am simply doing my duty as a watchman on the walls of Zion. I see a danger looming that is soon to take the world by storm. It is not coming from over the horizon in the form of a future antichrist individual who parks himself in some future Jewish temple; a myth created by the Jesuits in the 16th century. The real and present danger is leaning over the back fence of most people on the planet inviting everyone to her coming barbecue. She is a smiling monolithic power-hungry monster pretending to be Christian and sucking in formerly Protestant ministers and denominations through the lie that she is no longer the vicious cruel killing machine she once was. She's a lying whore committing spiritual adultery with the kings of the earth and about to jump from a great height upon all who love the Truth. But as Revelation 14:6-12 succinctly points out...she is fallen, fallen. And soon praise God she will be destroyed at the second coming and millions of martyrs who died at her hands will finally be vindicated for their stand for truth and justice.
My counsel to you my friend is to seek the truth as for lost treasure and stop being offended at everything others tell you.

Okay - first of all, you claim to have been a Catholic at some time in your past - yet you ALSO claim that you do NOT know the lies I have exposed to be lies.

So - you agree with people here who say that:
The Catholic Church teaches us to "worship" Mary.
The Catholic Church killed "tens of millions of" people in the Inquisitions.
The Catholic Church was started in the 4th century by Constantine.
The Catholic Church teaches the "worship" of idols.
And the list goes on . . .

Now - if you have the "wealth of knowledge" about the Church as you claim to - and you do NOT condemns these statements as lies - then you are as guilty of lying as those who are spreading them. And, yes - you HAVE condemned my posts because I simply will not allow people to spread lies about the Body of Christ.

As to your claims about heretics and punishment - do you even know what a "heretic" is??
My guess is that you don't.

As to the "wicked addictions" that plague some Catholics - look in your OWN back yard before pointing fingers (Matt. 7:3-5).
Or, do I need to remind you about the Jim Bakkers and Ted Haggards and Jimmy Swaggarts of the world - along with MANY other Protestants whose lived have been laid waste by the very SAME addictions you accuse Catholics of.

Finally - your eschatology is severely flawed if you believe the things you do about the coming Tribulations.
There are many anti-Catholic scholars who have long-abandoned this tripe about the Church being the "Whore of Babylon", etc., because it simply doesn't line up with Scripture, despite their bias.

 

[brakelite]

So - you agree with people here who say that:
The Catholic Church teaches us to "worship" Mary.
The Catholic Church killed "tens of millions of" people in the Inquisitions.
The Catholic Church was started in the 4th century by Constantine.
The Catholic Church teaches the "worship" of idols.
And the list goes on . . .

Anything in life we hold more dear to us than God is an idol. And as such, our devotion to said idol is worship. Mary, regardless of whether the church teaches this or not (perhaps one could argue that 'mediatrix' is a teaching) is most certainly placed in a more exalted position that Jesus in the hearts and minds of her faithful devotees. As such, she is worshipped.
Neither I nor anyone else knows for certain how many were executed for being conscientiously devoted to God above the authority and demands of the Roman church. The problem as I mentioned before, is not just the inquisitions of Spain, Goa, and others. If it were solely the inquisitions, then they would pale into insignificance compared to persecutions and deaths by other authorities on the planet. Oh if that were but the case! But alas, no. Since the time of the Arian invasions when the papacy colluded with state and oversaw the destruction of 3 entire Arian nations around the 5th century because they had a different view of the Godhead to the last century when religious wars in Bosnia, Serbia, Hertzogovenia, Vietnam, and two world wars, and the countless wars in between including the wars against the Albigenses, the Waldenses, the Hussites, the Lollards, and numerous others on numerous continents, then the numbers add up to not just tens of millions, but hundreds of millions.
I agree. The Catholic church did not start in the 4th century by Constantine. She gained final prominence and political and religious union (the hallmark of all pagan nation/states is the union of church and state which the modern Vatican is the penultimate example prior to the coming whore/beast global union) in the 6th century under the approval of the emperor Justinian and his successors who appointed the popes for over 100 years. The pope in 538 gained civil authority for the first time in Rome without Gothic influence. Thus began the medieval papal tyranny which ran for 1260 years until 1798 when Napoleon's general Berthier took the pope captive. Until 1929 and the Lateran treaty, the civil power of the papacy was broken. The beast, however, today is well and truly healed.
Whatever excuse and human reasoning are used for the arbitrary removal of the second commandment in Catholic catechisms making way for the assumed legality of the making of statues and busts so common in Catholic circles to my mind cannot negate the command "thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them". Immediately after the injunction "thou shalt have no other gods before me", removing that second commandment is blatant in your face thumbing of the nose and hypocritical "stuff you" to God. I remember well my young days growing up and every Sunday morning with my parents entering the church and seeing the crucifix center place, Joseph on the left and Mary on the right in their own little grottos adorned with flowers and candles and before whom most of the congregation gathered. I always had a very uneasy feeling that all was not right with that picture. If God was so loving, why did we need to pray to and give honor and praise to anyone else? That Mary is dead and in her grave, along with her husband and all the other saints, makes the practice of praying to such nothing more than necromancy.

As to the "wicked addictions" that plague some Catholics - look in your OWN back yard before pointing fingers (Matt. 7:3-5).
Or, do I need to remind you about the Jim Bakkers and Ted Haggards and Jimmy Swaggarts of the world - along with MANY other Protestants whose lived have been laid waste by the very SAME addictions you accuse Catholics of.

Please don't place those folk in my backyard. And those addictions I was alluding to? My local pub as a young man was a hotel adjacent to the local railway station, was known city-wide as the 'Catholic' pub and was the unofficial headquarters of the Marist Rugby club for whom I played. One could knock on the back-door of this establishment at 3am and be greeted by the owner, an Irishman such as myself, be cordially invited in and be welcomed and greeted by several priests and friends smoking, drinking, and gambling. The hotel was only 100 yards from the presbytery and the main church in town where I attended and was altar boy when younger. These are the addictions I was meaning, because I grew up as an eye-witness to them, even the alcoholism in my own Irish horse-training family for over 4 generations. You may notice I did not mention those other even more unpleasant habits of priests so often in the news recently.

Finally - your eschatology is severely flawed if you believe the things you do about the coming Tribulations.
There are many anti-Catholic scholars who have long-abandoned this tripe about the Church being the "Whore of Babylon", etc., because it simply doesn't line up with Scripture, despite their bias.

They have abandoned them, that is very true. But not because the eschatology is false, but because Protestants have abdicated their rightful place as watchmen on the walls of Zion and have apostatized from the truth and from the Lord they once worshipped. Modern Protestantism has been deceived by the Jesuits of your own church who created futurism in the 16 century to divert the Biblically correct description of Antichrist by the reformers away from the papacy toward an imaginary future individual. The counter-reformation in this regard has had remarkable success. But I for one am not buying it.

 

[brakelite]

@brakelite

Amen ...for I like 'the spirit' in which you posted. It has the heart of caring, rather than condemnation.

Thank you Grace. Appreciate you recognize that.

 

[brakelite]

-
Melchizedek was God's high priest in Abraham's day. (Gen 14:18-20, Heb 5:10)

Mel, along with Abraham, existed prior to the curses listed in the covenanted
law that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

● Deut 5:2-4 . .Yhvh our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Yhvh did
not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us
alive here today.

This is a very, very important detail to note seeing as how the covenant's
law wasn't set up to be enforced ex post facto; i.e. it isn't retroactive.

● Gal 3:17. . The law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward,
does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the
promise.

Enacting the Jews' covenant after their paterfamilias' time, instead of before
him or with him, was done to protect Abraham's covenant from his
posterity's curse-worthy failures to comply with their own covenant. In other
words; no matter how many times, nor in how many ways, Abraham's
posterity breaks the laws of their own covenant, they cannot endanger the
fulfillment of their father's covenant; which is a really good thing because
otherwise neither Christ nor his believing followers would benefit from one of
the promises God made in Abraham's covenant.

● Gal 3:8 . . Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the
Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, “Through you
shall all the nations be blessed.” (cf. Gen 12:3)

Continuing:

● Rom 4:15 . .The law produces wrath; but where there is no law, neither is
there violation.

In other words: where there is no law, there is no law to break. However;
it's not saying that things like dishonesty weren't sins back in those days
because they were.

● Rom 5:13a . . Up to the time of the law, sin was in the world,

Rom 4:15 is only saying that seeing as how God hadn't as yet enacted a law
in Abraham's day that pronounces a curse upon dishonesty, then whenever
Abraham lied; God didn't write him up for it.

● Rom 5:13b . . . Sin is not accounted when there is no law.

The koiné Greek word translated "accounted" is ellogeo (el-log-eh'-o) which
essentially speaks of keeping records.

Now, according to CCC 1858; it is a grave matter for Catholics to break any
one of the Ten Commandments. In other words; it is hell-worthy.

There's a fatal flaw in that rule. Know what it is? Well; the Ten
Commandments weren't covenanted law in Melchizedek's day; nor were
there any covenanted curses for breaking them; i.e. breaking the Ten
Commandments within the scope of Mel's priesthood wasn't hell-worthy. So
then, seeing as how Christ's priesthood is patterned after Mel's (Ps 110:4,
Heb 5:1-7:28), then breaking the Ten Commandments isn't hell-worthy
within the scope of Christ's priesthood either.

Bottom line: When a religion such as Roman Catholicism makes its
followers' safety from hell dependent upon compliance with the Ten
commandments, they have shunned Christ's priesthood and placed their
followers within the scope of Aaron's priesthood-- i.e. within the jurisdiction
of the curses listed in the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God
as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; a covenant that
condemns people to hell quicker, and with more efficiency, than anything I
can think of.

/

Revelation 22:14-15

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



1 John 2:3-4

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
The apostle Paul expended quite a bit of time, energy, and writer's ink trying
to convince people that it's impossible to obtain heaven by means of
compliance with the Ten Commandments. He didn't succeed; not with
everyone. People still refused to believe him even though he claimed to have
obtained his information straight from the horse's mouth.

● Gal 1:11-13 . . For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel
which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it
from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus
Christ.

However, though it is impossible to obtain heaven by means of compliance
with the Ten Commandments, it is essential to comply with them in order to
stay in heaven; not just the Ten only, but all of God's commandments. And
one's compliance cannot be spotty, it has to be flawless.

So; what's the secret to this apparent Catch-22?

The secret is found in a promise that God made to His people back in the Old
Testament.

● Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you:
I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart;
and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and
faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school
classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to
indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as
gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer
emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in
Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest bit of pity for climbers who lose
their grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever
happened; silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate,
and unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to proper compliance with the
Ten Commandments; then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive
would be shut out of heaven forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts
aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey
is spot-on.

● John 3:3 . . I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they
can never see the Kingdom of God.

● John 3:7 . . Don't be surprised at my statement that the unkind must
undergo a birth performed by the hand of God.

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke, isn't
optional; it's a must.

/

 

[brakelite]

True that we cannot enter heaven through our obedience, yet God also makes it clear we will not enter heaven while in a state of disobedience. Murderers, liars, adulterers, whether they claim Christ or not, will be left out. Jesus is returning for a bride spotless and without blemish. That wedding garment that she is required to wear is the righteousness of Christ. It isn't something she puts on after the groom has come. It isn't something she buys from another, nor something she devises and sews up on her own, as Adam and Eve attempted to do.
That righteousness is something we are required to hunger and thirst for. Matt. 5:6 It is something that Jesus said we should seek for on equal priority as the very kingdom to which we were desiring entrance to. Matt. 6:33. That righteousness is synonymous with His law. Psalm 119:172.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So the Galatians were thinking that they could be justified by following the law, but Paul says it must be by faith. And he equates justification with righteousness. The cross, the shedding of blood, justifies us. Throughout Biblical history the sacrifice of the animal and the shedding of blood removed sin from being as impediment in the relationship and a wall between God and man. We are ‘accounted’ righteous in the sight of a holy God, and we then have free access to the throne of grace.

But did God desire that Israel continually sin because they had a “get out of jail free card” grazing in the back paddock? Not at all. In fact several times God showed His great displeasure in the rivers of blood that constantly flowed from the temple altar.
Isaiah 1:10 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

What is going on here? It was in Eden that God Himself set up the sacrificial system. And a whole range of various sabbaths and holy days and services and sacrifices for the express purpose of gaining forgiveness, yet here is God saying He wants them to stop? What’s missing? Isaiah in the next few verses gives the answer. And after, John the Baptist confirms this.

16 ¶ Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Matthew 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Righteousness is holiness; likeness to God, and God is love. (1 John 4:16) It is conformity to the law of God, for “all Thy commandments are righteousness” Psalm 119:72, and “love is the fulfilling of the law”. Rom. 13:10
Righteousness is love, and love is the true light and life of God. The righteousness of God is embodied in Christ, and we receive righteousness by receiving Him.

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

It has been said that we take but two things to heaven with us from this world. The souls we have have helped save through our witness, and our characters. Eternity is dependant upon what characters we develop now, whether Christ’s or the prince of this world.
Eph.4:17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,….22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Thus righteousness is both imputed, (justification) and imparted (sanctification.) Both are essential, both are Christ’s, and both can be ours if we have but faith.
Rom.5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit…4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
The Ten Commandments are part of a covenanted law (Ex 34:28, Deut
4:13, Deut 10:4)

That's very serious because the covenanted law is enforced by a curse for
non compliance. (Deut 27:26, Gal 3:10)

Now; according to Deut 4:2, Deut 5:29-30, Deut 27:26, and Jas 2:10; the
covenanted law can't be cherry-picked; viz: it's all or nothing at all

This means religions teaching that compliance with the Ten Commandments
is essential to obtain heaven, have placed their followers under the
jurisdiction of the covenanted law and of course subject to the law's
covenanted curse for non compliance.

The exhilarating news is: Christ's believing followers are not covenanted with
God to comply with the Ten Commandments; nor is He obligated by
covenant to whack them with a curse for non compliance.

The tragic news is: every Roman Catholic who sincerely believes they have
to comply with the Ten Commandments in order to obtain heaven are in
very grave danger of missing out. Note the grammatical tense of the
verbiage in the passages below.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying
them out." (Deut 27:26)

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:
Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the
book of the law." (Gal 3:10)

The grammatical tense of "cursed is" is present tense rather than future,
indicating that the very moment a Roman Catholic breaks one of the
Ten Commandments; they are instantly slammed with a curse-- no delay,
and no waiting period.

/

 

[BreadOfLife]

Anything in life we hold more dear to us than God is an idol. And as such, our devotion to said idol is worship. Mary, regardless of whether the church teaches this or not (perhaps one could argue that 'mediatrix' is a teaching) is most certainly placed in a more exalted position that Jesus in the hearts and minds of her faithful devotees. As such, she is worshipped.

Neither I nor anyone else knows for certain how many were executed for being conscientiously devoted to God above the authority and demands of the Roman church. The problem as I mentioned before, is not just the inquisitions of Spain, Goa, and others. If it were solely the inquisitions, then they would pale into insignificance compared to persecutions and deaths by other authorities on the planet. Oh if that were but the case! But alas, no. Since the time of the Arian invasions when the papacy colluded with state and oversaw the destruction of 3 entire Arian nations around the 5th century because they had a different view of the Godhead to the last century when religious wars in Bosnia, Serbia, Hertzogovenia, Vietnam, and two world wars, and the countless wars in between including the wars against the Albigenses, the Waldenses, the Hussites, the Lollards, and numerous others on numerous continents, then the numbers add up to not just tens of millions, but hundreds of millions.
I agree. The Catholic church did not start in the 4th century by Constantine. She gained final prominence and political and religious union (the hallmark of all pagan nation/states is the union of church and state which the modern Vatican is the penultimate example prior to the coming whore/beast global union) in the 6th century under the approval of the emperor Justinian and his successors who appointed the popes for over 100 years. The pope in 538 gained civil authority for the first time in Rome without Gothic influence. Thus began the medieval papal tyranny which ran for 1260 years until 1798 when Napoleon's general Berthier took the pope captive. Until 1929 and the Lateran treaty, the civil power of the papacy was broken. The beast, however, today is well and truly healed.
Whatever excuse and human reasoning are used for the arbitrary removal of the second commandment in Catholic catechisms making way for the assumed legality of the making of statues and busts so common in Catholic circles to my mind cannot negate the command "thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them". Immediately after the injunction "thou shalt have no other gods before me", removing that second commandment is blatant in your face thumbing of the nose and hypocritical "stuff you" to God. I remember well my young days growing up and every Sunday morning with my parents entering the church and seeing the crucifix center place, Joseph on the left and Mary on the right in their own little grottos adorned with flowers and candles and before whom most of the congregation gathered. I always had a very uneasy feeling that all was not right with that picture. If God was so loving, why did we need to pray to and give honor and praise to anyone else? That Mary is dead and in her grave, along with her husband and all the other saints, makes the practice of praying to such nothing more than necromancy.

Please don't place those folk in my backyard. And those addictions I was alluding to? My local pub as a young man was a hotel adjacent to the local railway station, was known city-wide as the 'Catholic' pub and was the unofficial headquarters of the Marist Rugby club for whom I played. One could knock on the back-door of this establishment at 3am and be greeted by the owner, an Irishman such as myself, be cordially invited in and be welcomed and greeted by several priests and friends smoking, drinking, and gambling. The hotel was only 100 yards from the presbytery and the main church in town where I attended and was altar boy when younger. These are the addictions I was meaning, because I grew up as an eye-witness to them, even the alcoholism in my own Irish horse-training family for over 4 generations. You may notice I did not mention those other even more unpleasant habits of priests so often in the news recently.

They have abandoned them, that is very true. But not because the eschatology is false, but because Protestants have abdicated their rightful place as watchmen on the walls of Zion and have apostatized from the truth and from the Lord they once worshipped. Modern Protestantism has been deceived by the Jesuits of your own church who created futurism in the 16 century to divert the Biblically correct description of Antichrist by the reformers away from the papacy toward an imaginary future individual. The counter-reformation in this regard has had remarkable success. But I for one am not buying it.

First of all - the Catholic Church condemns worship of anybody or anything other than God Himself - so there's your first lie.

Secondly, as to your second remark in RED - nobody was ever executed for simply "disagreeing" with the Church. It was in teaching and promoting heresy. Your moronic assertion that "hundreds of millions" were executed is nothing short of stupid. In the areas where Inquisitions took place - there weren't even "tens of millions" of people - let alone HUNDREDS of million.

This kind of abject ignorance of history is comical, if not so tragic. There wouldn't have been anybody left to fight wars, build nations or discover new lands. Hundreds of millions, indeed.
What a joke . . .

As to your ridiculous charge of "necromancy" - do you even know what necromancy means??
It is the practice of seeking oracles from the dead. We simply ask them to pray FOR us because they are members of the Body of Christ. Who gave YOU the Authority to kick them out of the Body??

Finally - regarding your preposterous comments about your local pub being a "Catholic" hangout. How is this the fault or the responsibility of the Catholic Church and Catholic doctrine?? As I pointed out to your before - there are bad apples in EVERY group - including YOURS.

I know PLENTY of anti-Catholic Protestants who do their fair share of drinking and smoking and partying and gambling - so your hypocritical sanctimonious attitude is wasted on me . . .


PS - Those "even more unpleasant habits of priests" that you mentioned are going on FAR more often in Protestant churches . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Sexual Abuse of Minors in Protestant Churches | Fox News

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’ - NY Times