Why do they hate being called Christians

[Heb 13:8]

Noah and his family were NOT taken away - they were Left Behind to repopulate the earth.
No matter how much you try to put a spin on this - these are the Biblical facts . . .

The word "loipos" in 1 Thess 5:6, Rev 12:17, Rev 20:5 says the "left behind" are those who are asleep, tribulation saints left after rapture and nonbelievers that are dead and in the grave.

 

[OzSpen]

I prefer Believer, which leaves it open to ask me what I believe and why.

I am more Messianic than some Christians, but less so than Messianic Jews, and no one knows exactly what was being taught in the first century, so we have to go with Sola Scritpura, and wing it...including with what we call ourself.

I worry about the time when Ecumenicalism and Chrislam will be considered 'Christian', and when people will want me to say 'Allahu Akbar', when I can only say Alahu LO akbar, and YHVH akbar...which then makes me a Yahwist!

But the details only matter to denominations, and I don't belong to any.

Questor,

Ecumenism, Chrislam and other compromises of biblical Christianity will gain a hearing in any culture if evangelical Christians remain silent. I'd recommend a read of R Albert Mohler Jr's book, We Cannot Be Silent (2015 Nelson Books).

While it particularly addresses the issues of 'speaking truth to a culture redefining sex, marriage, & the very meaning of right & wrong' (sub-title of book), it has much broader application to our culture.

Oz

 

[BreadOfLife]

The word "loipos" in 1 Thess 5:6, Rev 12:17, Rev 20:5 says the "left behind" are those who are asleep, tribulation saints left after rapture and nonbelievers that are dead and in the grave.

And the entire false teaching of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" is a man made invention that is only about 180 years old.
Look up "John Nelson Darby" to find out where your false doctrine came from.

This was never taught in the 1800 years of Christianity before Darby . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

And the entire false teaching of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" is a man made invention that is only about 180 years old.
Look up "John Nelson Darby" to find out where your false doctrine came from.

This was never taught in the 1800 years of Christianity before Darby . . .

It actually was and is taught in scripture. Also notice the word "teknon" in Rev 12 verse 4 and 5. If the church wasn't raptured, the red dragon would devour them..

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It actually was and is taught in scripture. Also notice the word "teknon" in Rev 12 verse 4 and 5. If the church wasn't raptured, the red dragon would devour them..

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

1 Thess 4:13-17 is talking about the 2nd Coming - at the END.
The "child" in Rev. 12:1-5 who will "rule all nations" with an iron sceptre is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The Church doesn't "rule all nations", Einstein . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

1 Thess 4:13-17 is talking about the 2nd Coming - at the END.

How could that be? The 70th week is 7 years of darkness, and the children of God are of the light and of the day. God would be in contradiction..

Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

The restrainer (the daily sacrifice) being taken out of the way is the Holy Spirit inside believers.. HEAVENLY SIGN 2017

Dan 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice (believers in Christ) is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Rom 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

The "child" in Rev. 12:1-5 who will "rule all nations" with an iron sceptre is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Church doesn't "rule all nations", Einstein . . .

Actually, the church will also rule with Christ..

Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.

Notice how John is connecting the head with the body through rapture by using "huios" and "teknon". In many passages huios is always used singularly, and teknon is always used to describe a group of people.. (the body of Christ).

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

 

[BreadOfLife]

How could that be? The 70th week is 7 years of darkness, and the children of God are of the light and of the day. God would be in contradiction..

Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

The restrainer (the daily sacrifice) being taken out of the way is the Holy Spirit inside believers.. HEAVENLY SIGN 2017

Dan 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice (believers in Christ) is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Rom 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.
Actually, the church will also rule with Christ..

Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.

Notice how John is connecting the head with the body through rapture by using "huios" and "teknon". In many passages huios is always used singularly, and teknon is always used to describe a group of people.. (the body of Christ).

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Uhhhh . . . yeah.

Explain why the Church never taught about the ridiculous idea of a Premillennial "Rapture" for almost 2000 years until John Nelson Darby began to teach it in the 1830's.
Explain to me why this was not only NOT taught by the Catholic Church but by the Fathers of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Uhhhh . . . yeah.

Explain why the Church never taught about the ridiculous idea of a Premillennial "Rapture" for almost 2000 years until John Nelson Darby began to teach it in the 1830's.
Explain to me why this was not only NOT taught by the Catholic Church but by the Fathers of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

That's actually not true. Paul and John both teach rapture.

The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's actually not true. Paul and John both teach rapture.

The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

No - the Premillennial "Rapture" believe is a perversion of what Paul and John wrote.
If you do a rudimentary study on this false doctrine - you will see that it was never taught by ANY arm of Christianity until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

 

[Heb 13:8]

No - the Premillennial "Rapture" believe is a perversion of what Paul and John wrote.
If you do a rudimentary study on this false doctrine - you will see that it was never taught by ANY arm of Christianity until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

Then what does harpazo mean in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then what does harpazo mean in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5.

First of all - you never answered my question:
Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

Secondly - where does 1 Thess. 4:17 speak of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture."
This is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

I did answer your question. It's a matter of unbelief at this point. Only God can change your heart.

Secondly - where does 1 Thess. 4:17 speak of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture." This is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Rapture and the second coming of Christ are 7 years apart BOL. 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5 both have the word harpazo. Since we are still in the Grace period Rev 12:1-5 is literally coming to pass this September, which gives us pre-trib rapture before the 70th week. Are you saved?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did answer your question. It's a matter of unbelief at this point. Only God can change your heart.

Uhhh, no, you didn't answer my question. Here it is again:
Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

I'll word it differently, to make it easier:
After the Bible was written - why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

Rapture and the second coming of Christ are 7 years apart BOL. 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5 both have the word harpazo. Since we are still in the Grace period Rev 12:1-5 is literally coming to pass this September, which gives us pre-trib rapture before the 70th week. Are you saved?

You're obviously FAR too polluted with Darby-ism to have a rational discussion about this topic.
All I can say is, pray for clarity . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

After the Bible was written - why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

Because God doesn't change, only man does and his delusions.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You're obviously FAR too polluted with Darby-ism to have a rational discussion about this topic. All I can say is, pray for clarity . . .

and while you keep blowing more hot air, planet x and the rev 12 sign is getting closer and closer and closer...

 

[BreadOfLife]

I hope so..
I can't wait to see my Lord - and His mother . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because God doesn't change, only man does and his delusions.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

In other words - you have absolutely no explanation why this fallacy wasn't taught for 1800 years.
Pretty much what I thought.

You're a Darby-ist.
Good luck with that . . .

 

[eldios]

This bit

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Ce, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

and yet here it is plane as teh nose on ones face to see (unless you are blind)

One says im a Jw another an SD another a Orthodx another a protestant, why do they not call them selves Christians (left oen out to not offend im sure you get the picture)

Do you not know that where I man joins He becomes a part of, t obecome a JW you must accept there doctrines wrong or right as for any other denomination, which is why it says

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

This bit

Isa_30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

And so men and teh devil has divided teh "body" .

all Christians are given teh Holy Spirit, the seed of God, if Jesus is not enough than you relgion wil lonly kill you.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

worst of all

Tit_1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

I hope you can see

Most people don't know that Jesus wasn't talking about his body when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He was talking about the spirit of man and God called the word of God.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The spirit of God is the way, the truth and the life, not a visible body named Jesus.

 

[Heb 13:8]

In other words - you have absolutely no explanation why this fallacy wasn't taught for 1800 years.
Pretty much what I thought.

You're a Darby-ist.
Good luck with that . . .

The word harpazo is in the Word of God. Wake up!!

 

[epostle1]

The word harpazo is in the Word of God. Wake up!!

The Rapture was never thought of before 1830. What John Darby did was squeeze the rapture doctrine out of a few passages with his own private interpretation which you take as "biblical". Then came the post-trib rapture. The rapturites became divided.
History and Development of Rapture Theories