No they are the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king who administers the kingdom in place of the king!
isa 22:21-22
and
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?
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isa 22:21-22
and
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!
Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23
The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!
Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!
Matt 18:17 must hear the church!
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!
Christ and his church are the source of truth, the rule of faith for Christians!
acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles!
Apostolic succession.
Apostle means one sent. There are only 12 that can claim that they are apostles of Jesus Christ.
Rev 12:14King James Bible
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb"
I have no doubt that the Catholic church has apostles, but those are apostles of the Catholic Church, not of Jesus.
Apostle means one sent. There are only 12 that can claim that they are apostles of Jesus Christ.
Rev 12:14King James Bible
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb"
I have no doubt that the Catholic church has apostles, but those are apostles of the Catholic Church, not of Jesus.
I agree to the latter, there is doubt since the death of Pius 12
apostolic succession is true and very biblical
Matt 29:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) till the end
So the apostles remain until the end
Without apostles there is no faith
No sacraments
No church
So possibility of salvation
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
Successors of Jesus Christ!
Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18
Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples
Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3
Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)
The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19
(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
Successors of Moses!
Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?
The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!
Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!
mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
apostolic succession!
explicit and implicit in scripture
Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Matthias succeeded him as apostle
acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom
Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Isa 22 21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18
Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18
Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples
Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3
Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)
The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19
(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
Successors of Moses!
Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?
The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!
Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!
mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
apostolic succession!
explicit and implicit in scripture
Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Matthias succeeded him as apostle
acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom
Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Isa 22 21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Except your own Catholic History demonstrates that it's all a silly LIE. I suggest you do a little study of the REALITIES of your phony "Apostolic Succession".
Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!
Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23
The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!
Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!
the rock the church is built on by Christ is Peter
Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22
Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
large c church of all believers is a condemned hereby the authority of Christ thru his apostles
there is only one true church the physical body of Christ Jn 10:16 it does have spiritual and mystical and supernatural aspects though
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!
that’s only the original twelve with Mathias acts 1:26 replacing judas what about Paul?
the apostles have the same authority as Christ to make and send apostles so the continue until the end matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) until the end
without the apostles there can be
No church
No grace
No sacraments
No salvation!
now what does behooved have to do with the calvery?
think think think not emote!
example of brilliant thinker
politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, usually for the same reason! Mark Twain
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Born again Christians that do not know that the Bible tells them to assemble? Like I said my term of "Church of One" is about sarcasm and humor. I am not that against the Church of Ones....Some people cannot get out of their house.....TV Church? And a Church is not necessarily a building....it is a congregation....but it is not one person. Ergo the funny of the Church of One. It is good for Christians to "hang" with Christians....house churches....friends get together....play some music.....eat....and praise the Lord....that was great.
Then on the "One True Church" thing. There are people that if you were to promote the formation of the one true church, they would think you were the AntiChrist. LOL Like Christ intended for there to be 30,000 renditions of His teachings. The cat is kinda out of the bag on that one, looks more like a can of worms!....you got people preaching that you can sin all you want and still go to heaven.....That God made us as fleshy robots under his control and that Christ was just a man......but they will not go to hell for saying that.....because they do not believe in hell either. LOL Ya got to have a sense of humor for these things.
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Were you born again as an adult and baptised as an adult and did you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit? You don't have to be a brilliant thinker to become a Christian and often brilliant thinkers think more about the scriptures and what they mean rather than focusing on Jesus -
the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy that was set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2
then you’re premise that Constantine founded the church is false!
to call a council is to gather the bishops (the successors of the apostles)
so they must have already been existing!!!!!
you’re spiritual pride causes you’re spiritual blindness!
The great fundamentalist lie!
Masquerading as Faith & truth!
The Great rebellion against Christ and His holy church and apostles!
Reject all of sacred and apostolic Tradition who have the authority of Christ! (The holy apostles)
But accept, obey and submit to the tradition of men like those who translated the KJV Bible (and rejected many books and chapters) and the excommunicated heretic luther who invented the five heretical Solas!
Saul
The Jew
Pride
Hatred for Christ and Christians
Heretic
Fundamentalist
Paul
Humble
Saint
Faithful Christian
Love of Christ and Christians
Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously
Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Then the risen Christ appeared!
The blinding light of truth prevailed!
Fundamentalism is faith without reason!
So be it with all those who sit in the error of rigorous puritanical fundamentalism!
Including Protestants!
Pure spiritual blindness, thick black scales!
Spiritual anarchy and chaos!
God establishes “peace and order” thru obedience to hierarchical jurisdictional authority!
Peter matt 16:18
The apostles Matt 18:18
Jn 29:21-23 eph 2:20 eph 5:24 eph 5:32
Jn 15:1-5
Apostolic succession acts 1:26
Personifies saul:
A fundamentalist going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4
Not scripture plus private judgement
But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!
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