Why Do Catholic’s worship the Pope.

[Ritajanice]

They seem to be posting their own understanding of God’s written word.

Yet have no understanding of God’s witness, His Living Holy Spirit?

Still waiting for them to explain?

If they post Gods written word...then please back up what is said...by Gods witness His Holy Spirit ,who witnesses Gods truth to our heart/ spirit?

How would the Holy Spirit be able to do that?

What in us must be Born Again?

Are they spiritual children of God?

Born Of The Spirit?

 

[Behold]

Every Catholic is born again when he/she is Baptized.

That is "baptismal regeneration", and that Catholic "doctrine of devils" ... is not true.

Everyone who is born again, is born again by the Holy Spirit, and water is not required...as water is just water.

 

[Behold]

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Yet they are all dead, and sinners are still sinning...
Who is forgiving them?

The Pope?
Mary?

The current Pope, is in the Vatican...having some more wine and his 6th nap of the day........he's not forgiving anyone in Montana, today, or in Iceland......for the last 40 yrs.

And if you think your ST Francis (Pope) can forgive your sin... then be sure you ask to see the nail prints in his wrists... and the scar in his side, before you trust in that one to FORGIVE YOU your SINS.


So, your VERSE, has nothing to do with your POPE or your "cult of the Virgin".

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Really, how would you know how to obey God and his commandments?

Just by reading the written word?

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Those being led by the Holy Spirit put what God has already said first place knowing the Spirit will never lead anyone to disobey what God has already said

 

[Augustin56]

@Augustin56 ..please explain..Born Again of incorruptible seed?

I’ve highlighted it twice for you.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God?

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

​

Which means what?​

​

1 Peter 1​

​

King James Version​

​

​

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

You are still missing the point, I suspect because you are taking things out of context of the whole of Scripture. Sacramental (water) Baptism is normatively necessary for salvation. Slight side point: strictly speaking, the Word of God is NOT a book (Bible). John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John is speaking of Jesus Christ here! Jesus is the Word of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Peter is addressing a crowd in Jerusalem after Pentecost and indicting them for their part in the death of the Messiah. The crowd, “cut to the heart” asks what they should do (Acts 2:37). In response, Peter tells them they should repent and be baptized in order to receive the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. This shows baptism is necessary for salvation.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus is speaking to a Jewish leader named Nicodemus who has begun to accept Jesus’ authority to speak on behalf of God. When Jesus says that one must be “born anew” or “born from above” to see the kingdom of God, Nicodemus asks how one can be “born again.” Jesus answers him with this unmistakable reference to baptism.

This reference becomes clearer in the context of the passage, since Jesus and his disciples go and baptize people after this encounter. The Church Fathers (first Christians) unanimously agreed this verse referred to baptismal regeneration.

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In this passage, Peter describes how in God’s patience “a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water” when Noah built the ark (3:20). Peter clarifies that just as the waters of the Flood saved the ark’s occupants from a wicked generation, the waters of baptism save us. They don’t do this by removing external dirt but as a means for God to give a clear conscience, or the removal of interior sin. This verse clearly ascribes salvation to the act of baptism.

 

[Ritajanice]

Every Catholic is born again when he/she is Baptized

Then if you are Born Again.

Why can’t you explain what it means to be Born Again of incorruptible seed ?

They mean the same thing do they not?

 

[Augustin56]

This is Catholic style nonsense you are posting..
This is the typical.. "Let Catholics reinterpret the verse so that we can keep on doing what we do".

That VERSE, does not say that the church is built on PETER.......The verse says that the REVELATION that Peter had, regarding Jesus being the Messiah, the Son of God, is the CORNERSTONE of the Church.

"And that ROCK.. IS CHRIST".

So, the "cult of mary" decided that it's Peter and not Jesus The LORD who is the foundation of the Church., the "Body of CHRIST".

Behold, it only seems like nonsense because you have strayed so far away from Christ's Church and the original message He gave. You are not very educated in the faith, although you are trying, and have allowed your prejudices to shade your understanding. The Rock issue isn't an either/or, but an and/both. Simon's name was changed to Peter, unless you disagree with Scripture.

I recall Ronald Reagan, telling the Democrats, "The problem with you guys are that you have so many 'facts' that just aren't true." LOL

 

[Ritajanice]

You are still missing the point, I suspect because you are taking things out of context of the whole of Scripture. Sacramental (water) Baptism is normatively necessary for salvation. Slight side point: strictly speaking, the Word of God is NOT a book (Bible). John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John is speaking of Jesus Christ here! Jesus is the Word of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Peter is addressing a crowd in Jerusalem after Pentecost and indicting them for their part in the death of the Messiah. The crowd, “cut to the heart” asks what they should do (Acts 2:37). In response, Peter tells them they should repent and be baptized in order to receive the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. This shows baptism is necessary for salvation.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus is speaking to a Jewish leader named Nicodemus who has begun to accept Jesus’ authority to speak on behalf of God. When Jesus says that one must be “born anew” or “born from above” to see the kingdom of God, Nicodemus asks how one can be “born again.” Jesus answers him with this unmistakable reference to baptism.

This reference becomes clearer in the context of the passage, since Jesus and his disciples go and baptize people after this encounter. The Church Fathers (first Christians) unanimously agreed this verse referred to baptismal regeneration.

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In this passage, Peter describes how in God’s patience “a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water” when Noah built the ark (3:20). Peter clarifies that just as the waters of the Flood saved the ark’s occupants from a wicked generation, the waters of baptism save us. They don’t do this by removing external dirt but as a means for God to give a clear conscience, or the removal of interior sin. This verse clearly ascribes salvation to the act of baptism.

I am doing no such thing.

I ask you again.

What does it mean to be Born Again of incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever.

It means the same as being Born Again...so why aren’t you understanding being Born Again of incorruptible seed?

Where does this incorruptible seed liveth and abideth forever?

I have taken nothing out of context.

Who is Gods Living witness who leads our spirit into God’s truth?

How do you communicate with God?

Through the written word?

Or through His Living witness the Holy Spirit?

Who leads you through scripture?

Why aren’t you understanding Born Again of incorruptible seed..if you are Born Of The Spirit?

What in you was reborn?

 

[Augustin56]

I am doing no such thing.

I ask you again.

What does it mean to be Born Again of incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Where does this incorruptible seed liveth and abideth forever?

I have taken nothing out of context.

Who is Gods Living witness who leads our spirit into God’s truth?

How do you communicate with God?

Through the written word?

Or through His Living witness the Holy Spirit?

Who leads you through scripture?

Why aren’t you understanding Born Again of incorruptible seed..if you are Born Of The Spirit?

1 Peter 1:23, that you've highlighted, relates to 1 John 3:9

No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.

A habitual sinner is a child of the devil, while a child of God, who by definition is in fellowship with God, cannot sin. Seed: Christ or the Spirit who shares the nature of God with the Christian. We become children of God through Baptism.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

you have strayed so far away from Christ's Church

We know the catholics aren't part of God's true Church by all the false doctrine they teach

 

[Dan Clarkston]

A habitual sinner is a child of the devil

That's what the catholics are seeing they teach heresy

 

[Ritajanice]

1 Peter 1:23, that you've highlighted, relates to 1 John 3:9

No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.

A habitual sinner is a child of the devil, while a child of God, who by definition is in fellowship with God, cannot sin. Seed: Christ or the Spirit who shares the nature of God with the Christian. We become children of God through Baptism.

I will ask you again...what does it mean to be Born Again of incorruptible seed?

You need God’s witness the Living Holy Spirit to guide you through scripture?

Where does Gods seed remain in you that liveth and abideth forever?
please back up your scripture...by Gods witness the Living Holy Spirit?

 

[Behold]

Behold, it only seems like nonsense because you have strayed so far away from Christ's Church and the original message He gave.

"Christ's Church"?


You mean????

The Church at Corinth, (Corinthians) and the Church at Ephesus, (Ephesians) and the Church at Galatia, (Galatians) and the Church at Thessalonica, (Thessalonians...) that Paul started.......

"Paul". (The Apostle).

You falsely mean those as found in a NEW Testament that have no relationship to a "perpetual virgin" or being "saved by water".. /And who never claimed that Peter was anything but "another Apostle"?

Also, Paul wrote most of the NT Epistles. He was called to do that by JESUS, after Jesus was in Heaven.
Paul never wrote a sentence about "Popes", "Apostolic succession".. "Mary's Ascension", "Mary as co'author of Salvation"...

So your INFO< came from YOUR Catholic Doctrine Book, and that one is not a New Testament.

Your entire religious opera, is built on the original lie that Peter is something he's not, and then in comes the "Church Fathers" that wrote a lot of Catholic Literature, that is man made, and nothing less. and nothing more.

I'll tell you a fact.
In this world, for the last 800 yrs, there have been thousands upon thousands of SHRINES built for the Virgin Mary.
However, in Heaven, there is not even one, as Mary, the saved sinner, the mother of other children.... is ashamed to be so elevated by the "cult of the Virgin", as she knows better.

 

[Augustin56]

"Christ's Church"?


You mean????

The Church at Corinth, (Corinthians) and the Church at Ephesus, (Ephesians) and the Church at Galatia, (Galatians) and the Church at Thessalonica, Thessalonians...

You falsely mean those as found in a NEW Testament that have no relationship to a "perpetual virgin" or being "saved by water".. /And who never claimed that Peter was anything but "another Apostle"?

Also, Paul wrote most of the NT Epistles. He was called to do that by JESUS, after Jesus was in Heaven.
Paul never wrote a sentence about "Popes", "Apostolic succession".. "Mary's Ascension", "Mary as co'author of Salvation"...

So your INFO< came from YOUR Catholic Doctrine Book, and that one is not a New Testament.

Your entire religious opera, is built on the original lie that Peter is something he's not, and then in comes the "Church Fathers" that wrote a lot of Catholic Literature, that is man made, and nothing less. and nothing more.

No, "Church of" refers to location, not the entity. Like, we refer to the "Church in America" or the "Church in Europe" not as a different Church, but a location of the Church.

The Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch ordained by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about. It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

Your beliefs came only lately in history. The Protestant Reformation began in the 16th century. So, IF there were any validity to Protestantism, there would be one Protestant denomination, with one set of doctrines, not tens of thousands (and counting).

Do you claim to be infallible in your beliefs and interpretations? If so, where do you get that authority? And don't say the Bible. Because you have almost as many personal interpretations of Scripture as you have individuals trying to personally interpret Scripture. So, the burdon on you, Johnny-come-lately, is to show me where you came up with a DIFFERENT interpretation of Scripture than was always believed from the beginning (Catholic doctrine). Did Jesus, Himself, come down and tell you? Or an angel (as the Mormon's seem to claim)? Where? Curious minds want to know.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Augustin56 do you actually know who Gods Living witness is?

Where does Gods Living witness witness Gods truth?

You should know if you are Born Again/ Born Again of incorruptible seed?

Is that a Living seed or a dead seed?

 

[Behold]

No, "Church of" refers to location, not the entity. Like, we refer to the "Church in America" or the "Church in Europe" not as a different Church, but a location of the Church.

The "body of Christ" is not a location, and every local church, is "the body of Christ".

The very people who are talking to you, @Augustin56 .... are in different locations, but all here who are born again, are the "Church".. = each of them, are the "body of Christ.""

The Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ.

The Body of Christ is all the believers, who have Trusted in Christ, since the Cross was Raised.

Try to understand that Jesus had to sacrifice his BODY,.. on The CROSS.... so that the "BODY of Christ" could become the "CHURCH".

The book of Acts in Chapter 2 , says that "3000" believers became CHRISTIANS, that day, and there was no "cult of the Virgin", and no POPE< and no "Catholic anything" found that day.

Your Religion, that uses this title "Catholic", is man made, and you will keep proving it.

Do you claim to be infallible in your beliefs and interpretations?

That is your POPE who claims that for Himself. = nonsense.

Here is the "authority"..

The Holy Spirit and the BIBLE, that is the word of God.
And in the NT, the THEOLOGY for the "Church"..., is the doctrine of Paul...as Jesus called HIM, not your POPE.

So, Paul's Doctrine, is the NEW Testament "body of Christ" Doctrine, and your doctrine is your Religious Denominations..

IN fact the very person that your "cult of the virgin" claims is "our 1st Pontiff", .... Said that Paul's LETTERS are "scripture".

You should inform your Pope about that one.
Its in 2nd Peter.

 

[Augustin56]

@Augustin56 do you actually know who Gods Living witness is?

Where does Gods Living witness witness Gods truth?

You should know if you are Born Again/ Born Again of incorruptible seed?

Is that a Living seed or a dead seed?

God's living witness is His Mystical Body, the Church, which preceded the New Testament, wrote the New Testament, and set the canon for Scripture (in the late 4th century). It is by the authority of Christ's Church that you even have a Bible. If you accept the Bible, you accept the authority by which it came. Why wouldn't you accept the interpretation of this same Church?

 

[Augustin56]

The "body of Christ" is not a location, and every local church, is "the body of Christ".

The very people who are talking to you, @Augustin56 .... are in different locations, but all here who are born again, are the "Church".. = each of them, are the "body of Christ.



The Body of Christ is all the believers, who have Trusted in Christ, since the Cross was Raised.

The book of Acts, says that "3000" of them became CHRISTIANS, that day, and there was no "cult of the Virgin", and no POPE< and no "Catholic anything" found that day.

Your Religion, that uses this title "Catholic", is man made, and you will keep proving it.



That is your POPE that claims that for Himself. = nonsense.

Here is the "authority"..

The Holy Spirit and the BIBLE, that is the word of God.
And in the NT, the authority, is the doctrine of Paul...as Jesus called HIM, not your POPE.

So, Paul's Doctrine, is "body of Christ" Doctrine, and your doctrine is your Religious Denominations..

You're confusing Church with church. I agree that the "body of believers" comprise the Church. The Church is not a building, although we usually refer to the building in which the Church worships as a church.

Catholics are the original Christians. The word Catholic comes from the Greek katholikos, the combination of two words, kata (concerning), and holos (whole). According to the Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, the word catholic comes from a Greek word meaning “regarding the whole,” or, more simply, “universal” or “general.” The word church comes from the Greek ecclesia, which means “those called out,” as in those summoned out of the world at large to form a distinct society. So the Catholic Church is made up of those called out and gathered into the universal society founded by Christ.

 

[Behold]

You're confusing Church with church. I agree that the "body of believers" comprise the Church.

I have not "confused" anything.
You were confused when you spoke about locations.......

The Church is LOCATED on Earth......as every single born again Believer who has become "THE Temple of the HOLY Spirit".

The Church is also "seated in heavenly places" "In Christ".

Catholics are the original Christians.

Jews are the "original Christians", as Peter the JEW, preached to 3000 JEWS (obo) on "pentecost" who all BELIEVED in a Dead JEW.... and were born again, as "Christians".

Your church Doctrine, has a core issue.
The issue is that its Theologically "rotten to the Core".

The word Catholic comes from the Greek katholikos

The original title of your religious man made system, is "The CULT of the VIRGIN"..

This title.."Catholic" was the later rebranding.. the latest edition.

 

[Augustin56]

The "body of Christ" is not a location, and every local church, is "the body of Christ".

The very people who are talking to you, @Augustin56 .... are in different locations, but all here who are born again, are the "Church".. = each of them, are the "body of Christ.""



The Body of Christ is all the believers, who have Trusted in Christ, since the Cross was Raised.

Try to understand that Jesus had to sacrifice his BODY,.. on The CROSS.... so that the "BODY of Christ" could become the "CHURCH".

The book of Acts in Chapter 2 , says that "3000" believers became CHRISTIANS, that day, and there was no "cult of the Virgin", and no POPE< and no "Catholic anything" found that day.

Your Religion, that uses this title "Catholic", is man made, and you will keep proving it.



That is your POPE who claims that for Himself. = nonsense.

Here is the "authority"..

The Holy Spirit and the BIBLE, that is the word of God.
And in the NT, the THEOLOGY for the "Church"..., is the doctrine of Paul...as Jesus called HIM, not your POPE.

So, Paul's Doctrine, is the NEW Testament "body of Christ" Doctrine, and your doctrine is your Religious Denominations..

IN fact the very person that your "cult of the virgin" claims is "our 1st Pontiff", .... Said that Paul's LETTERS are "scripture".

You should inform your Pope about that one.
Its in 2nd Peter.

All tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting Protestant denominations CLAIM that their interpretation of Scripture is through the Holy Spirit's inspiration. However the Holy Spirit is not the spirit of contradiction, and the truth never contradicts itself.

For example, the Baptists insist that infant Baptism is invalid. They Lutherans claim it is valid. Both cannot be correct, since they are claiming the opposites. Both groups claim to be led in their interpretation of Scripture by the Holy Spirit. And, yet, we have literally tens of thousands of different denominations doing the same thing. They splinter into more and more and more denominations because they are positive that their personal interpretation of Scripture is led by the Holy Spirit!

You really have no certitude of anything if all you rely on is yourself. Jesus didn't write a book to be self-interpeted to spread His truths. He founded a (ONE) Church to do that. A book would have excluded the vast majority of humanity since until the last 100 years or so, there was no interest in universal literacy. Historically, there is only ONE Church that can historically traced by to Jesus. And that is the Catholic Church. It was, by a long, long shot, first. Even the Protestant Early Church historian, J.N.D. Kelly claims such.