Who, or what, is the dreaded bogey man of prophecy?

[Timtofly]

This analogy shows how recklessly inconsistent the Immortal Soul crowd treats Genesis 2:7 KJV:
Bulb + Electricity = Light comes into existence
Body + Breath of Life = Soul comes into existence

You come into existence.

I guess you are comfortable with the fact you can cease to exist, once your body does.

That some how you don't exist, but can start to exist later as if nothing happened.

You are the one with a reckless anology.

Your equation is not consistent with Scripture, that points to the fact that you cannot stop existing.

You cannot even explain how any one is inconsistent. God sustains the soul even without a body, nor the Holy Spirit. It was the body that needed to be sustained, not the soul.

In your analogy you are the light bulb created by God, and your soul ceases to exist. But somehow the body or "light bulb" can still exist without a soul.

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess you are comfortable with the fact you can cease to exist, once your body does.

When it comes to death, God's truth that souls die is good and the Serpent's "immortal soul" lie is bad:

• Jesus might not call me from the grave for 1,000 years but it'll seem i slept "scarce one minute".
• They can fight wars right on top my grave and I won't know a thing about it.
• We won't have to look down and see our kids under constant attack from Satan every moment.
• The wicked will suffer the Second Death - which is not eternal torment but eternal annihilation.

That some how you don't exist, but can start to exist later as if nothing happened.

12 miracle resurrections in Scripture and not a single word about what was going on while there were dead...because they passed out of existence until God resurrected them.

You are the one with a reckless anology.

I think it well demonstrates the fallacy of a never dying soul.

Your equation is not consistent with Scripture, that points to the fact that you cannot stop existing.

Light is produced when current is joined with the buib.
A Soul is produced when the Spirit is joined with the Body.

Does light continue to exist once the current is removed from the bulb?
Does the Soul continue to exist when the Spirit is removed from the Body?

You cannot even explain how any one is inconsistent. God sustains the soul even without a body, nor the Holy Spirit. It was the body that needed to be sustained, not the soul.

How can God "sustain the soul even without the body" when a Soul is the result of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life?

Your continued denial of the plain truth of Genesis 2:7 KJV - that the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union ofthe Body and the Breath of LIfe - is why you think as you do.

In your analogy you are the light bulb created by God, and your soul ceases to exist. But somehow the body or "light bulb" can still exist without a soul.

Can chocolate milk continue to exist if you remove every bit Hershey's syrup from the glass of milk?

Then why argue the Soul continues to exist when God removes the Breath of Life from the Body?

 

[BarneyFife]

You come into existence.

I guess you are comfortable with the fact you can cease to exist, once your body does.

That some how you don't exist, but can start to exist later as if nothing happened.

You are the one with a reckless anology.

Your equation is not consistent with Scripture, that points to the fact that you cannot stop existing.

You cannot even explain how any one is inconsistent. God sustains the soul even without a body, nor the Holy Spirit. It was the body that needed to be sustained, not the soul.

In your analogy you are the light bulb created by God, and your soul ceases to exist. But somehow the body or "light bulb" can still exist without a soul.

God makes and remakes the things that are seen from the things that are not seen. This is only inconsistent with the narrow view of human reasoning.

Hebrews 11:3 — Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

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[Timtofly]

Then why argue the Soul continues to exist when God removes the Breath of Life from the Body?

Because you cannot stop existing. You are not even part of the dead, once you have the second birth. You have been made alive and have past from death into life. Obviously you place yourself still among the dead.

If being the dead means they don't exist, that is your added definition to who John calls the dead.

 

[Timtofly]

remakes

Where is this point in any verse of the Bible?

 

[BarneyFife]

Where is this point in any verse of the Bible?

2 Corinthians 5:17 — Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is the very essence of righteousness by faith.

.

 

[Brakelite]

You are not even part of the dead, once you have the second birth.

Is your eternal life so secure that it comes without conditions?

 

[Timtofly]

2 Corinthians 5:17 — Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is the very essence of righteousness by faith.

.

That does not describe the soul made again after it ceases to exist. Making all things new is removing the old, and leaving only righteousness. Righteousness has not ceased to exist in the world.

 

[Timtofly]

Is your eternal life so secure that it comes without conditions?

Romans 8

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you plan on removing yourself from God's love, and the second birth?

 

[Brakelite]

Romans 8

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you plan on removing yourself from God's love, and the second birth?

Doesn't answer my question. Is your salvation (I am not suggesting God doesn't love you, but His love alone doesn't save you) workout conditions? Yes, God's love is unconditional, which means He still loves those who hate Him and are lost. But is your salvation unconditional? Is it secure if you fail to meet the conditions?

 

[BarneyFife]

That does not describe the soul made again after it ceases to exist. Making all things new is removing the old, and leaving only righteousness. Righteousness has not ceased to exist in the world.

"Leaving only righteousness?" What righteousness? Christ imputes and imparts His own righteousness to the soul that is dead in trespasses and sins.

Romans 3:10 — As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


According to your own claim:

You are not even part of the dead, once you have the second birth. You have been made alive and have past from death into life.

How can one "pass from death unto life" if they are not dead?

Ephesians 2:1 — And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

The confusion is owing entirely to the misunderstanding of what constitutes a soul:

Genesis 2:7 — And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I know that it is wildly popular to teach that a soul is a supernatural, ethereal, everlasting entity and to use the word interchangeably with "spirit" when convenient, but it is also just as erroneous as it is popular.

The belief that souls are unconditionally immortal is part of a discipline known as Spiritualism, and is the basis of countless deceptions.

If you live to see the 2nd coming of Jesus, expect to witness demons appearing as disembodied "souls," advising people to ignore the specific language of the 4th commandment.

You will also witness a large number of folk who have decided to honor a day that God never blessed, not to honor Him, but to save their own hides from the calamity that virtually everyone innately knows is coming upon the earth.

This is how you will know who is honoring God and who is trying to make an end-run around Him.

Those who love Him will be doing as He has asked and commanded; those who love themselves will be doing what the "experts" advise and, in fact, command on pain of death.

It is very simple, actually. There will be one group of people who are going about doing good toward God in Christ, and man. And there will be another who are desperate to preserve their own honor, health, and property instead of trusting those things with God. It will be easy to see which day of the week God has blessed. You won't even have to open a Bible. Selflessness vs selfishness.

Deuteronomy 5:29 — O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Notice the early yearning and appeal from God to impart New Covenant righteousness to His people.

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[Phoneman777]

Because you cannot stop existing.

My Bible says "God alone hath immortality" so, are you saying I'm God?

See, Satan wanted to be God - so, in Eden, he introduced two false ideas that form the basis for every single false system of religion on the planet:

"thou shalt not surely die"
"thou shalt be as God".

You are not even part of the dead, once you have the second birth. You have been made alive and have past from death into life.

Spiritually speaking, yes.

Obviously you place yourself still among the dead.

If being the dead means they don't exist, that is your added definition to who John calls the dead.

Not added...just unknown by you who've been brainwashed since birth about how death affects the soul. If you simply accept that Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly says the Soul comes into eixstence as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life, everything else makes sense:

>Jesus said, "I say unto you today, shalt thou..." - not "I say unto you, today shalt thou..."
>Paul preferred to be absent from body, skip "unclothed" dead in the grave, and just be clothed in his glorified body by Jesus.
>Paul wanted to "depart and be with Christ" because the "dead know not anything" including the passage of time in a grave.
>The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable Jesus explains to the Syrophoenician woman that's nothing to do with the afterlife.

If there's any other objections, me and my KJV can resolve them.

 

[Brakelite]

God alone hath immortality"

How do people get around ignoring the plain declarations of Truth from the word of God? How clearer can it be? Which is easier to believe? The word from Satan... you shalt not surely die, or the word from the prophet, the soul that sins shall die?
 Do they realisethat who they believe, is the one they have faith in?

 

[Phoneman777]

How do people get around ignoring the plain declarations of Truth from the word of God? How clearer can it be? Which is easier to believe? The word from Satan... you shalt not surely die, or the word from the prophet, the soul that sins shall die?
 Do they realisethat who they believe, is the one they have faith in?

They love satanic lies over hard truth...God forbid, they discover the truth and have to make "changes" to their comfortable, sinful Christianity.

 

[ReChoired]

You come into existence.

I guess you are comfortable with the fact you can cease to exist, once your body does.

That some how you don't exist, but can start to exist later as if nothing happened.

You are the one with a reckless anology.

Your equation is not consistent with Scripture, that points to the fact that you cannot stop existing.

You cannot even explain how any one is inconsistent. God sustains the soul even without a body, nor the Holy Spirit. It was the body that needed to be sustained, not the soul.

In your analogy you are the light bulb created by God, and your soul ceases to exist. But somehow the body or "light bulb" can still exist without a soul.

Perhaps this analogy may be of assistance:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

[1] dust of the gorund + (and) [2] the breath of life, breathed into the nostrils = (became) a living soul/being/creature.

A “soul” (H5315, G5590; Leviticus 22:11; Hebrews 4:12) is a “life” (Genesis 9:5; Matthew 6:25; Luke 9:56; Acts 15:26, 27:10; 1 John 3:16; Revelation 12:11, &c.), “person/s” (Genesis 14:21; Numbers 5:6, &c.), “creature” (Genesis 1:21,24; Leviticus 11:46, &c.), or “beast” (Leviticus 24:18). It can also be defined as a “being”.

So, here is the modern analogy, a modern PC:

​

[1] frame made of mechanical parts with centralized hard drive, with CPU (Intel-ligence Inside), RAM (short term memory) and storage (long term memory) unit with basic software installed (body, bones, flesh, brain, automatic systems (breathing, blinking, heart beat, etc))​

​

+​

​

[2] electricity (power, energy)​

​

=​

​

[3] Powered PC System, Operating with Base Core programming (OS, Original Service), that is able to be filled with new information on the Hard Drive. It comes with automatica uploading to the Cloud (Heaven) server, where all men's lives are recorded in the books of heaven, down to the last detail. Additionally, the original Builder knows of all the systems and updates and info the PC receives.​

If [1], or [2] gets destroyed or removed then [3] ceases to function as a PC. It is in 'sleep (off) mode'. However, all the newest info, data, experiences that the Hard drive obtained since coming off the factory floor, has been moment by moment uploaded to the Cloud (3rd Heaven, like a Blu-Ray Disc, a storage device that is not on, just sits there), where is written on the books of Heaven, the exact character in case the PC is ever damaged, or ceases to function. The Builder also has a perfect memory of everything installed and that the machine had been through up to the time of cease of operation.

The Builder, seeing that the machines parts are old and decayed, disconnects the power, and using the info stored to the cloud, in the future, simply builds a new machine, with new more modern superior parts, and downloads all the uploaded info, and plugs the PC back in, and gives it power, and the New Machine is good to go. The character is perfectly preserved into the New PC (Perfect Christian).

The wicked, or completely corrupt OS (Offending Sinners) are instead to be deleted from the Cloud, and the Builder chooses to not remember those systems, and they are not rebuilt into new PC's, nor ever again to be used, since they refused the Antivirus update in Christ Jesus. Instead, they are simply turned on, with their old parts reassembled, in their respective resurrection, and shown to be faulty, and sent to the burn pile, and eventually gone forever.

 

[BarneyFife]

They love satanic lies over hard truth...God forbid, they discover the truth and have to make "changes" to their comfortable, sinful Christianity.

I struggled with my decision to break away from popular orthodoxy and follow the truth of what the Bible actually says about certain, (in my view) widely misunderstood subjects.

But I don't recall anyone leveling this kind of "us-and-them" cynicism at me.

I wonder how such words would have affected my ability to choose freely.

"God forbid," in this context, seems like playing a bit fast-and-loose with the 3rd commandment. Perhaps I'm a little old-fashioned.

.

 

[Phoneman777]

​

I struggled with my decision to break away from popular orthodoxy and follow the truth of what the Bible actually says about certain, (in my view) widely misunderstood subjects.

But I don't recall anyone leveling this kind of "us-and-them" cynicism at me.

I wonder how such words would have affected my ability to choose freely.

"God forbid," in this context, seems like playing a bit fast-and-loose with the 3rd commandment. Perhaps I'm a little old-fashioned.

Have you read the Great Controversy? We can't escape the reality of "us vs. them" because that's exactly what's happening.

Pastor David Gates of Bolivia publicly preached that he knew an SDA physician that was contacted by a catholic church priest and asked if he was willing to treat a fellow catholic priest suffering from cancer or some other very serious disease I can't remember. What I do know is that the SDA agreed to treat him on condition that he be allowed to give the priest Bible studies. He agreed, and the treatments ended up being a success.

The appointed time came for the physician to visit the priest for the Bible studies and as he entered his house, the priest said to him, "Before we begin, I'd like to show you something" and took him into his personal library. There on the shelf stood every single one of EGW's books in hardback. To the astonished physician, the priest said, "See, you didn't know it, but I'm a Jesuit priest...and we know that EGW is a true prophet...and we believe everything written in those books is the truth...and it's our job to see to it that these books are kept from as many people as possible."

People need to be told - if they don't know already - where their anti-Present Truth ideas originated: in the "Roman dunghill of decretals".

BTW, Zwingle went to Scotland and preached Daniel 7's papal Little Horn Antichrist, as I and Brakelite preach it, and almost the whole of Scotland converted from catholicism to Protestantism.

 

[Brakelite]

But I don't recall anyone leveling this kind of "us-and-them" cynicism at me.

Have you ever been accused of dividing Christianity? I find it interesting that truth does divide. In fact, Babylon falls partly because it unites through error. We are called to diviide from her. Just as God divided the light from the darkness at creation. In context of our times, divided we stand. Divided from the world. Divided from Babylon. Divided from sin. Hard though to share that truth with those we consider "them" with that attitude without revealing a certain amount of arrogant aloofness and exclusivity. Nevertheless, that divisiveness is becoming more and more apparent as the crisis approaches.
The occult world is astir. Have you fellas heard of the "externalisation of the hierarchy"?

 

[Hobie]

Have you ever been accused of dividing Christianity? I find it interesting that truth does divide. In fact, Babylon falls partly because it unites through error. We are called to diviide from her. Just as God divided the light from the darkness at creation. In context of our times, divided we stand. Divided from the world. Divided from Babylon. Divided from sin. Hard though to share that truth with those we consider "them" with that attitude without revealing a certain amount of arrogant aloofness and exclusivity. Nevertheless, that divisiveness is becoming more and more apparent as the crisis approaches.
The occult world is astir. Have you fellas heard of the "externalisation of the hierarchy"?

2 Timothy 2:15 comes to mind...

 

[Timtofly]

Doesn't answer my question. Is your salvation (I am not suggesting God doesn't love you, but His love alone doesn't save you) workout conditions? Yes, God's love is unconditional, which means He still loves those who hate Him and are lost. But is your salvation unconditional? Is it secure if you fail to meet the conditions?

You have to accept the gift of salvation. God does not make that choice for you, nor against you.