Who makes the choice?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ernest,

May we take Romans first? What individual was not in one of the two groups (a jew or a gentile)? Do you believe it is unreasonable to say Paul could have known the group is made up of the individuals? Is there a way to separate the group from the individual?

I guess I also should ask: does this mean we need saved as the whole group (your reasoning for Romans 5) or can we come as individuals?

SL

A group is made up of individuals but Paul is not talking about individuals, he is giving an essay on justification in Rom 1-3. Before the law of Moses, the Gentiles as a whole, as a group could not be completely justified without the blood of Christ. It was not just specific individuals that could not be justiifed but the group Gentile. When it comes to Christ's NT gospel it is the group (Christian) that is justified and not a particular individual outside and apart from the group Christian. So the individual separate from the group cannot be justified/saved.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

A group is made up of individuals but Paul is not talking about individuals, he is giving an essay on justification in Rom 1-3. Before the law of Moses, the Gentiles as a whole, as a group could not be completely justified without the blood of Christ. It was not just specific individuals that could not be justiifed but the group Gentile. When it comes to Christ's NT gospel it is the group (Christian) that is justified and not a particular individual outside and apart from the group Christian. So the individual separate from the group cannot be justified/saved.

I understand what you are saying. We are going to continue to see that differently. I will not get into the other differences that we would have at this point because if we can not come together on that point, the rest is mute. Thank you for your patient explanation. I am very glad, whether we agree or not, that your arguments are at least made with/in scripture. We always have a baseline to go back to in the case of scripture, not feelings. We simply read it differently. I will keep reading and you keep reading, maybe one of us will change our mind someday.

SL

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I understand what you are saying. We are going to continue to see that differently. I will not get into the other differences that we would have at this point because if we can not come together on that point, the rest is mute. Thank you for your patient explanation. I am very glad, whether we agree or not, that your arguments are at least made with/in scripture. We always have a baseline to go back to in the case of scripture, not feelings. We simply read it differently. I will keep reading and you keep reading, maybe one of us will change our mind someday.

SL

I simply do not read in Rom 1-3 where Individuals are mentioned but groups/races Gentiles and Jews are the topic.