Who is the Whore of babylon

[Pilgrimer]

I've been told multiple times that the whore of babylon from revelation is the Roman Catholic Church and the vatican yet I have read revelation 17 and 18 multiple times and a better match seems to be pagan rome which took place in the time revelation was written, why do people keep claiming that the whore of babylon is the catholic church when alot of the evidence suggests pagan rome

The idea that "Mystery Babylon" of the Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church was propounded by a rabidly anti-Catholic Scottish minister in the 1850's. He was not educated in ancient religions but set out to "prove" that the Roman Catholic Church was the Mystery Babylon of the Revelation by creating a multitude of false and quite often ludicrous but nevertheless somewhat convincing connections between the Roman Catholic Church and ancient pagan religions, particularly those of Mesopotamian regions. I'm sure if he were still alive today, he would be devastated to see how his fictional work has been used against all of Christendom to undermine and discredit not just the Roman Catholic Church, but all of Christianity and its history and practices. But then again, his hatred for the Catholic Church burned so deep he might consider it a small price to pay for the animus he has engineered against Catholicism.

But to answer the question, I understand the Mystery Babylon of the Revelation to be apostate Jerusalem of the latter 2nd Temple period which was supported by and then ultimately destroyed by the Roman Empire.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The idea that "Mystery Babylon" of the Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church was propounded by a rabidly anti-Catholic Scottish minister in the 1850's. He was not educated in ancient religions but set out to "prove" that the Roman Catholic Church was the Mystery Babylon of the Revelation by creating a multitude of false and quite often ludicrous but nevertheless somewhat convincing connections between the Roman Catholic Church and ancient pagan religions, particularly those of Mesopotamian regions. I'm sure if he were still alive today, he would be devastated to see how his fictional work has been used against all of Christendom to undermine and discredit not just the Roman Catholic Church, but all of Christianity and its history and practices. But then again, his hatred for the Catholic Church burned so deep he might consider it a small price to pay for the animus he has engineered against Catholicism.

But to answer the question, I understand the Mystery Babylon of the Revelation to be apostate Jerusalem of the latter 2nd Temple period which was supported by and then ultimately destroyed by the Roman Empire.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

When John was inspired to write revelation concerning the mystery of Babylon he was writing about future things which would be happening during the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ I believe, so I believe the whore of Babylon represents the world Empire of false religion which I do believe Christendom to be a part of. I honestly believe Christendom which is a religious organization that say they follow Jesus Christ, and most likely honestly believe they are, but I honestly don't think this religious organization is truly following Jesus Christ.

 

[Philip James]

If one wants to find babylon, they would do well to find all that the prophets say about it.

Habukuk is a good place to start:


For see, I am raising up Chaldea, that bitter and unruly people, That marches the breadth of the land to take dwellings not his own.

Terrible and dreadful is he, from himself derive his law and his majesty.

Swifter than leopards are his horses, and keener than wolves at evening. His horses prance, his horsemen come from afar: They fly like the eagle hastening to devour;

each comes for the rapine, Their combined onset is that of a stormwind that heaps up captives like sand.

He scoffs at kings, and princes are his laughingstock; He laughs at any fortress, heaps up a ramp, and conquers it.

Then he veers like the wind and is gone - this culprit who makes his own strength his god!


Peace!

 

[Pilgrimer]

When John was inspired to write revelation concerning the mystery of Babylon he was writing about future things which would be happening during the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ I believe, so I believe the whore of Babylon represents the world Empire of false religion which I do believe Christendom to be a part of. I honestly believe Christendom which is a religious organization that say they follow Jesus Christ, and most likely honestly believe they are, but I honestly don't think this religious organization is truly following Jesus Christ.

But there is only one entity in all of world history that has shed the blood of the apostles and prophets, and that was Jerusalem.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

P.S. Do you not believe that Jesus is present now?

 

[JohnPaul]

If the whore of babylon is pagan rome then the bible is wrong if the whore of babylon is the Roman Catholic Church then the bible is right

Is not the Babylon in the Mideast?

Then perhaps it’s Islam, why the Catholic Church, why any Christian churches?

 

[Ezra]

Is not the Babylon in the Mideast?

Then perhaps it’s Islam, why the Catholic Church, why any Christian churches?

this is a type spiritual Babylon. to say it's only the vatican or this or that.. its world religious system and its in operation today.. we can see results of it but can not pin point it

 

[JohnPaul]

this is a type spiritual Babylon. to say it's only the vatican or this or that.. its world religious system and its in operation today.. we can see results of it but can not pin point it

Thank you for answering.

 

[Ezra]

Thank you for answering.

i am not saying i am %100 correct but while back i did some looking into it, from everything i read.that seemed to be as logical answer as i could come up with .to me it makes sense.yes the vatican has a strong voice influence but so does islam and then you have all thee other guru beliefs out there

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But there is only one entity in all of world history that has shed the blood of the apostles and prophets, and that was Jerusalem.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

P.S. Do you not believe that Jesus is present now?

The Jerusalem you're speaking about is corrupt Jerusalem, doing the things Satan wants to be done therefore a part of false religion. Because of Jerusalem's continued unfaithfulness Jerusalem and it's temple were destroyed by the Babylonian Empire which started the, "times of the gentiles". What this means is that Israel no longer represented God's kingdom on earth. The gentiles nations have their false God's which don't actually exist. They're actually worshipping Satan although they won't actually believe that.These gentiles nations continue to have their day until the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, which yes I do believe we are living in the time period of Jesus second presence. So the time of the gentiles is over and Jesus is ruling in the midst of his enemies as King. If you remember that when Jesus was a man on earth Satan tempted him by showing him all the kingdom's of the world saying if he did an act of worshipping him he would give all these kingdom's to him. That means at this time Jerusalem belonged to Satan. Seeing how Israel treated Jesus we can see they were doing what Satan wanted them to do. Also the scriptures show that all the nation's belong to Satan and he represents all false religions worldwide. When Jesus was on earth several times when Jesus said some thing that the people loved they tried to make him their king but Jesus would not allow it because he represented Gods kingdom and if made king of Israel he would have been representing Satan. So Jerusalem simply is a part of the world Empire of false religion. All these things, killing the prophets of God and the Apostles Satan is the one who influenced people, which includes religious organizations and governments to do these things. Satan actually is the entity that caused all these things and he isn't working just through Jerusalem. Satan represents the world Empire of false religion.

 

[Pilgrimer]

The Jerusalem you're speaking about is corrupt Jerusalem, doing the things Satan wants to be done therefore a part of false religion.

I agree with some of what you say, but not all. While it is true that Satan was the power behind the corruption of Jerusalem (he is the source of all corruption), Satan is revealed in the Revelation as the dragon, not the whore, and not a city. The whore, the bloody city, apostate Jerusalem, was destroyed. Satan was not destroyed. After the conquest of Jesus at Calvary, Satan was cast down out of heaven and after a short time he was bound in the darkness and never again can he walk in the light among the sons of God and never again can he enter into God's presence and accuse the brethren of sin because now Christ our mediator stands in the presence of God a perpetual offering for atonement.

But Satan's time is not over. In the end of the world, just before Jesus Christ returns to claim the creation his blood has purchased, Satan will be loosed from the darkness and will go out into the world to deceive the nations and mount a final assault against God's church ...

And the rest will one day be history.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Base12]

But there is only one entity in all of world history that has shed the blood of the apostles and prophets, and that was Jerusalem.

^^^
This is really the bottom line... and the Smoking Gun evidence.

When combined, these two verses make a bullet proof case...

Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth"

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

When we add this next verse, it's Case Closed...

Revelation 11:8
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified"

Done and done.

 

[Base12]

There is more to the story however...

There is a reason why pinpointing who Mystery Babylon is can be such a daunting task for so many.

Mystery Babylon is actually two entities in one.

I can expand on this if anyone is interested.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I agree with some of what you say, but not all. While it is true that Satan was the power behind the corruption of Jerusalem (he is the source of all corruption), Satan is revealed in the Revelation as the dragon, not the whore, and not a city. The whore, the bloody city, apostate Jerusalem, was destroyed. Satan was not destroyed. After the conquest of Jesus at Calvary, Satan was cast down out of heaven and after a short time he was bound in the darkness and never again can he walk in the light among the sons of God and never again can he enter into God's presence and accuse the brethren of sin because now Christ our mediator stands in the presence of God a perpetual offering for atonement.

But Satan's time is not over. In the end of the world, just before Jesus Christ returns to claim the creation his blood has purchased, Satan will be loosed from the darkness and will go out into the world to deceive the nations and mount a final assault against God's church ...

And the rest will one day be history.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

I believe Jerusalem of old has a modern-day counterpart in the organized religion of Christendom. This religious organization claims to worship the God of the Bible, but, instead, it has made itself part of the world empire of false religion. The prophecy identifies that empire as “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.”—Revelation 17:5. Satan is the one who brought all false religion into existence and is one of his main tools of deceiving mankind. This world Empire of false religion is what will be destroyed just before armmageddon. I didn't say at any time that Satan would be destroyed out of existence when Armageddon happens. I said Satan would be destroyed out of existence when he and all who side with him are thrown into the lake of fire which I believe doesn't happen until after Armageddon. I believe the 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ will start after Armmageddon and the first thing that will be done is Satan and his demons will be thrown into the Abyss and bound so that during that 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ Satan and his demons can't influence mankind then when this 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ is over Satan is loosed for a short period of time and able to mislead many so that they surround God's servants then at the schedule time by the True God a fire comes and destroys them all and it's then that Satan and his demons and those humans who chose to agree with Satan are thrown into the lake of fire destroying them completely out of existence.
Unlike you I don't believe Satan was thrown out of heaven until Jesus Christ second presence, which I do believe we are living in today. So Satan isn't able to persecute the sons of God in heaven today, but he can persecute the anointed of God and God's servants on Earth.

Seven heads of the dragon. The “dragon” seen in heaven in the apostle John’s vision had seven heads. It is identified as the Devil. (Re 12:3, 9) Additionally, the “wild beast” on earth, which receives its power from the dragon, and also the “scarlet-colored wild beast” are both depicted as having seven heads, and these heads are clearly used to represent world powers. (Re 13:1;17:3, 9, 10; compare Da 2:32, 37, 38, where King Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty is called a “head.”) Hence, the seven diademed heads of the Dragon would evidently point to Satan’s headship over the seven world powers of Bible prophecy.—Eph 6:12; ]

 

[eik]

believe the 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ will start after Armmageddon and the first thing that will be done is Satan and his demons will be thrown into the Abyss and bound so that during that 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ Satan and his demons can't influence mankind then when this 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ is over

Yes but you're overlooking some fundamental points, which is that the kingdom of God is "from another place." John 18:36. That doesn't point to any reign of Christ on earth other than the current reign, for he reigns from heaven "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:26. I know you're echoing the premillennial tradition, but I can't agree with it as I do not believe it is attested by scripture.

I believe the whore of babylon is the city of Rome, and specifically the Vatican, and its worldwide web of interests, as distinct from the religion of Roman Catholicism practised by its adherents. There is no doubt that it or she is very rich, when the distribution of the whole Catholic church is taken into account worldwide, and far more so than any other church. It has the blood of many saints on its hands, and it sits in the city of seven hills. One shouldn't restrict the whore to the current Vatican however as it can include any number of daughter denominations that historically owe their existence to Rome. One must also consider that the Vatican is a shadow of what it once was, where it used to rule supreme in many lands by aligning itself with the temporal powers.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes but you're overlooking some fundamental points, which is that the kingdom of God is "from another place." John 18:36. That doesn't point to any reign of Christ on earth other than the current reign, for he reigns from heaven "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:26. I know you're echoing the premillennial tradition, but I can't agree with it as I do not believe it is attested by scripture.

I believe the whore of babylon is the city of Rome, and specifically the Vatican, and its worldwide web of interests, as distinct from the religion of Roman Catholicism practised by its adherents. There is no doubt that it or she is very rich, when the distribution of the whole Catholic church is taken into account worldwide, and far more so than any other church. It has the blood of many saints on its hands, and it sits in the city of seven hills. One shouldn't restrict the whore to the current Vatican however as it can include any number of daughter denominations that historically owe their existence to Rome. One must also consider that the Vatican is a shadow of what it once was, where it used to rule supreme in many lands by aligning itself with the temporal powers.

This is complete nonsense.

First of all – the Vatican doesn’t sit on 7 Hills. Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 Hills of Rome, which are:
Aventine Hill
Caelian Hill
Capitoline Hill
Esquiline Hill
Palatine Hill
Quirinal Hill
Viminal Hill.

The obvious answer is apostate Jerusalem, which DOES have the blood of the prophets and saints on its hands. Ummmmmmm, and it DOES sit on 7 Hills, which are:
Mount Scopus
Mount Olivet
Mount of Corruption
Mount Ophel
The original Mount Zion
The new Mount Zion
The hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

Jerusalem is ALSO called a “Harlot” (Isa. 1:21) that “kills the prophets” (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34).
Do your homework . . .

 

[eik]

This is complete nonsense.

First of all – the Vatican doesn’t sit on 7 Hills. Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 Hills of Rome, which are:
Aventine Hill
Caelian Hill
Capitoline Hill
Esquiline Hill
Palatine Hill
Quirinal Hill
Viminal Hill.

The obvious answer is apostate Jerusalem, which DOES have the blood of the prophets and saints on its hands. Ummmmmmm, and it DOES sit on 7 Hills, which are:
Mount Scopus
Mount Olivet
Mount of Corruption
Mount Ophel
The original Mount Zion
The new Mount Zion
The hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

Jerusalem is ALSO called a “Harlot” (Isa. 1:21) that “kills the prophets” (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34).
Do your homework . . .

I never said the Vatican Hill was one of the seven hills of Rome. When I deferred to the Vatican, I didn't especially mean the modern Vatican but the Vatican that literally ruled Rome from 756AD until 1870AD. Prior to that the Pope was influential in Rome's government. When Rome was the capital of the papal states, the Vatican was the seat of the papacy, but obviously many other buildings in Rome were occupied by the church too. Also the city must be Rome generally so it would include pagan Rome, indeed Rome as a continuum. Rome was destroyed on more than several occasions after Revelations.

There are issues with your interpretation too, but there are issues with mine. So one major issue is that the woman sits on the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The beast heads are commonly thought to represent empires, so it suggests that Babylon is being used as a generic term here for any number of antichristian empires: the traditional ones being Assyria, Eqypt, Babylon, Media, Persia, Greece, Rome etc. Anyone can look this up. Also seven may be generic, as denoting the complete set of satanic world empires, figuratively called Babylon. Yet Jerusalem was never construed to be amongst the antichristian world empires, although it was contemptuously labelled as Babylon, but never remotely on the same scale as Babylon. Also it can't be discounted that the city of seven hills is in fact denoting “mountains” only as a symbol for kingdoms that correspond to the kings. So it may not be a city of literally seven hills, and the whole prophecy may be more generic than at first appears, but on the other hand, if it is intended to infer a literal city of seven hills, then it is likely to be Rome over Jerusalem for the following reasons:

(a) Rev 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Although there were a few martyrdoms of Christian Jews in Jerusalem, such as Stephen and James the Just, the Jews at Jerusalem generally obeyed the law, and were not exterminated. So to defer to Jerusalem as "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" is only marginally correct, and a better fit is the persecutions of Christians by pagan Rome, and afterwards by the papal inquisitions and temporal agents of the papacy.
(b) Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." By the time of the writing of the book of Revelation (near the end of the 1st century AD) the destruction of Jerusalem (AD70) was in the past, and it wasn't rebuilt until AD130. All prophecy is future and so it couldn't apply to Jerusalem unless Revelation was written prior to AD70, which is not consistent with scholarship that says 95AD.
(c) Rev 17:18 "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Never could Jerusalem be described as the "great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth." That could only apply to Rome at the time the prophecy was written.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never said the Vatican Hill was one of the seven hills of Rome. When I deferred to the Vatican, I didn't especially mean the modern Vatican but the Vatican that literally ruled Rome from 756AD until 1870AD. Prior to that the Pope was influential in Rome's government. When Rome was the capital of the papal states, the Vatican was the seat of the papacy, but obviously many other buildings in Rome were occupied by the church too. Also the city must be Rome generally so it would include pagan Rome, indeed Rome as a continuum. Rome was destroyed on more than several occasions after Revelations.

There are issues with your interpretation too, but there are issues with mine. So one major issue is that the woman sits on the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The beast heads are commonly thought to represent empires, so it suggests that Babylon is being used as a generic term here for any number of antichristian empires: the traditional ones being Assyria, Eqypt, Babylon, Media, Persia, Greece, Rome etc. Anyone can look this up. Also seven may be generic, as denoting the complete set of satanic world empires, figuratively called Babylon. Yet Jerusalem was never construed to be amongst the antichristian world empires, although it was contemptuously labelled as Babylon, but never remotely on the same scale as Babylon. Also it can't be discounted that the city of seven hills is in fact denoting “mountains” only as a symbol for kingdoms that correspond to the kings. So it may not be a city of literally seven hills, and the whole prophecy may be more generic than at first appears, but on the other hand, if it is intended to infer a literal city of seven hills, then it is likely to be Rome over Jerusalem for the following reasons:

(a) Rev 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Although there were a few martyrdoms of Christian Jews in Jerusalem, such as Stephen and James the Just, the Jews at Jerusalem generally obeyed the law, and were not exterminated. So to defer to Jerusalem as "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" is only marginally correct, and a better fit is the persecutions of Christians by pagan Rome, and afterwards by the papal inquisitions and temporal agents of the papacy.
(b) Rev 17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." By the time of the writing of the book of Revelation (near the end of the 1st century AD) the destruction of Jerusalem (AD70) was in the past, and it wasn't rebuilt until AD130. All prophecy is future and so it couldn't apply to Jerusalem unless Revelation was written prior to AD70, which is not consistent with scholarship that says 95AD.
(c) Rev 17:18 "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Never could Jerusalem be described as the "great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth." That could only apply to Rome at the time the prophecy was written.

Stephen and James weren’t the “only” ones killed by the Jews. Paul himself admitted to doing this regularly (Acts 8:3, Gal. 1:13) – and this is just ONE guy. Apostate Jerusalem cooperated with pagan Rome in arresting and killing Christians. They ALSO had the blood of Prophets on their hands (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34). They were ALSO called “The Harlot” (Isa. 1:21).

Remember what they told Pilate:
“We have no king but Caesar” (John 19:15).

Finally – Rev. 11:7-8 tells us that the Beast will kill the Two Witnesses of God “. . . in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.”

Ummmmmm, according to MY Bible – that’s Jerusalem.

 

[101G]

But there is only one entity in all of world history that has shed the blood of the apostles and prophets, and that was Jerusalem.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

P.S. Do you not believe that Jesus is present now?

This is correct, so many can drop the "Roman catholic church" as the great whore escape goat. yes, it's Jerusalem, and not Rome. the book of Revelation clearly tells us who the whore is.

Revelation 14:8 "And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication". (so Babylon is the "GREAT" City, keep that in thought).

Revelation 17:1 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters". (the "GREAT" whore is the GREAT City)

NOW LET THE WRITER PUT IT ALL TOGETER FOR US,
Revelation 17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 17:17 "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Revelation 17:18 "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

so the whore of Babylon is that "GREAT CITY". and who is that GREAT City? THE ANSWER, Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified".

BINGO, Jerusalem, not Rome.

for Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt Spiritually, which is another word Rahab.
Isaiah 1:10 "Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah".

Isaiah 51:9 "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

PICJAG.

 

[prism]

I've been told multiple times that the whore of babylon from revelation is the Roman Catholic Church and the vatican yet I have read revelation 17 and 18 multiple times and a better match seems to be pagan rome which took place in the time revelation was written, why do people keep claiming that the whore of babylon is the catholic church when alot of the evidence suggests pagan rome

Who is the Whore ofbabylon?

All forms of the Ecumenical movement. It's a whore by definition. Rome seems to be leading it up but many 'Protestant' bodies are just as involved.

 

[aspen]

I am not always the whore of Babylon, but when I am subbing for Trump when he is on the golf course.....I am all in