Maria Valtorta is no longer alive. And, the quote in post #6 is Jesus's answer to the question in post #1 which you don't want to discuss.
Who is the apostle Jesus loved the most?
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Maria Valtorta is no longer alive. And, the quote in post #6 is Jesus's answer to the question in post #1 which you don't want to discuss.
If you agree that God, not a book, is the final word, and that He speaks whenever, wherever, to whomever and about whatever He wills, and that what He says doesn't contradict His words that we read in Scripture, then read the quote in post #6. It's believed to be the words of Jesus dictated to Maria Valtorta on May 16th, 1947. If you think it disagrees with Scripture, then show how.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Deuteronomy 4:2 - You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Revelation 22:18-19 - For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Do you know what those verses mean? I ask because you agree that God speaks whenever, wherever, to whomever and about whatever He wills. So, lets say what Jesus dictated to Maria Valtorta (see post #6) was dictated to you instead. What would you do?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit will not tell me or anyone else something that cannot be verified by scripture. He will tell you the future of what will happen, and it will happen. But not embellish past history. Why would someone get a revelation from the past. Revelations, visions, and dreams are about you and what is to happen.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
That wouldn't stop her from voting in Chicago; why should it prevent her from posting here?
The Holy Spirit will not tell you or anyone else something that cannot be verified by Scripture? Firstly, where's that statement verified in Scripture? Secondly, that statement goes against what you said I'm right about, which is that God speaks whenever, wherever, to whomever and about whatever He wills. Thirdly, say the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit revealed to you, for example, in-depth details surrounding the creation of the angels, the rebellion of Lucifer and other angels, the creation of the universe, as well as the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Or, how about Jesus's discourses in full, not the summarizations of them in Scripture. The list can go on. All details that aren't found in any of the scriptural books. How would you verify those details using the scriptural books? You get around that by saying the following:
"He will tell you the future of what will happen, and it will happen. But not embellish past history."
Where's that statement verified in Scripture?
The following are definitions of the word "revelation":
There's nothing about revelations being strictly about what's to come. So, now what?
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Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
John 16:13 - However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
See, the Holy Spirit will tell you what's going to happen, not what happened in the Past.
I will say with absolute certainty that it was not the Holy Spirit that told you that. A commentary is a sermon, but in writing. I hate to say this but you have a strange view of the HS. You are either lazy or ignorant of the fundamentals of Bible doctrine.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
shepherdsword
Active Member
What makes you think he loved any of them more than the others? Catholics will say Peter. Gnostics will say Mary Magdalene or Judas. What if he loved them all the same because he saw each one as a member of the collective called his "bride"?
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit will not tell you or anyone else something that cannot be verified by Scripture? Firstly, where's that statement verified in Scripture?
Firstly, you said revelations are solely about what is to come, but it's not. See below.
Secondly, Jesus telling the apostles that the Holy Spirit will declare to them things that are coming isn't the same as telling them that neither He, nor the Father and the Son will never reveal anything other than future events.
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I'm a Catholic and my answer isn't Peter, but Judas Iscariot because that's who Jesus said He loved the most. You should read Jesus's quote in post #6 because in it He said He loved the other apostles in the same ways that He loved Judas, but that it was out of justice that He loved the others. Regarding Judas, its not that He loved him out of justice, but rather loved him just as much and in the same ways as the others, despite knowing that he couldn't be saved.
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shepherdsword
Active Member
You actually take that as the Lord speaking?
Jesus didn't speak that. If he really loved Judas the most then he would have saved him regardless of his betrayal. After all, he saved Peter after he denied him three times.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Wholeheartedly!
Judas didn't repent because he didn't feel remorse. He didn't want to be saved. If he had, Jesus would've forgave him. Do you really think Jesus should've done violence to Judas's free will by saving him when he didn't want to be?
shepherdsword
Active Member
Then you are deceived my friend.
Judas didn't repent because he did not receive the grace to do so. Surely if he was loved about the others God would not allowed satan to enter into him and harden his heart.
In your view at the present time, but that could change. God is far more interactive with His creation than you realize.
God gave people free will. Judas wanted to betray Jesus, and so he chose to do so, and Jesus said that he didn't feel remorse about it, which is why he didn't ask for forgiveness. If he repented, which means if he felt remorse, and if he asked for forgiveness, then Jesus would've forgiven him.
Good answer!
This was spoken about at my church on Sunday. My pastor believes it was Lazarus but is not certain.
I wonder which definition of "loved" is used here. Think I'll look it up.
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