Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

[Grailhunter]

What is "obvious" by her pregnancy? She was sleeping with a man other than Joseph. You and I both know this to be untrue. We believe the scriptures. We both believe that Mary was innocent of adultery and that she slept with no other man. But if we were restricted to what is "obvious" we would be compelled to conclude a story other than what is recorded in the gospels.

First off I do not think anyone is talking about sleeping.
Secondly that is why the angel had to explain things to Joseph still describing it as a sexual act.
....an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
conceive is not a miracle manifestation.

 

[charity]

Genesis 6:1-8
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Many people believe that the sons of God were fallen angels who fornicated and had children with female human beings thus making the world so evil that God decided to destroy civilization. Could this really be? Could spiritual being really fornicate with human beings even though Paul taught us that heavenly bodies have a different splendor than human bodies in 1 Corinthians 15? Would God really allow this to happen? I believe not

I believe that the sons of God were the faithful line of God and that the daughters of men were the daughters of the unfaithful line of Cain.

In the previous chapters of Genesis we see that the descendants of Seth were faithful to God while the descendants of Cain were not. All we hear about the descendants of Cain is the great accomplishments they made but Seth's descendants were great men of God. The earth seamed quite peaceful up until this time so what changed?

God constantly warns the faithful to not dwell with the unfaithful throughout the Old Testament and there is a reason for this which is to keep the faithful from being corrupted. We read that the sons of God were only attracted to the daughters of men because they are beautiful not because they loved them so the reason why they fornicated with them was for lust not love.

Over time while dwelling with the unfaithful the faithful conformed to the ways of the unfaithful until the faithful came down to just one man Noah. The ways of the Lord was lost and the offspring of these people lived for themselves not for the Lord as the whole world became filled with wickedness and this was the reason that God decided to destroy almost all of the human race with the great flood.

God protected the line of the faithful and continued to do so throughout the bible. I believe that this kind of serves as warning to the church and will be the same reason that God will destroy the human race in the future by fire as the church is slowly conforming to the ways of the world.

'And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.'
(Gen 6:1-2)

Hello there, @Marty fox,

I believe that the wording of Genesis 6:1-2 when measured against what you say in your OP, proves what you say to be untrue. For the words, 'men' and 'sons of God' are set in contrast. If they were all of mankind, then there would be no need for this distinction to be made.

This is the first usage of the term 'sons of God': When it is used elsewhere in the Old Testament it is used of spiritual beings other than mankind:-

'There were giants in the earth in those days;
and also after that,
when the sons of God came in
unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men
which were of old, men of renown.'
(Gen. 6:4 )

'Now there was a day when the sons of God
came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them.'
(Job 1:6 )

'Again there was a day when the sons of God
came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them
to present himself before the LORD.'
(Job 2:1)

'When the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'
(Job 38:7)

* These spiritual beings, are called 'sons' of God because created by Him. As, wonderfully, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are called, 'sons of God' in the New Testament, because they are a new creation in Christ Jesus, created by God, in Him:-

'But as many as received Him,
to them gave He power
to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His name:'
(John 1:12)

'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God.'
(Rom. 8:14)

'For the earnest expectation of the creature
waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.'
(Rom. 8:19)

'That ye may be blameless and harmless,
the sons of God, without rebuke,
in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,
among whom ye shine as lights in the world;'
(Php. 2:15)

'Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,
that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew Him not.'
(1Jn.3:1)

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when He shall appear,
we shall be like Him;
for we shall see Him as He is.'
(1Jn. 3:2)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Timtofly]

The flood wasn't to kill angels...but their half human children...literal giants. The angels were cast into hades and chained and will go to the LOF eventually.

The Flood was not for angels, because no angel ever made it to the earth. They were chained immediately after only getting so far. You are adding to Scripture when you say they were allowed time on earth doing something that is impossible in the first place. Angels cannot procreate. Besides those angels never appeared as humans, because God did not send them to earth, but God placed them in chains of darkness immediately.

Why did they have to be bound in darkness if they were in human form? The chains of darkness means they were still bright lights radiating light and heat. In order to be placed in the pit in sheol, they had to be bound in darkness to mitigate who they still were.

When they are loosed from the pit in the 5th Trumpet, they are not in human form either.

 

[Timtofly]

“At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens,
and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.

The verse does not say we become stars.

"will shine like the"

"shine like the stars"

Putting on the spirit makes us a bright light, but still human, still a son of God, never a star/angel.

In the symbolism of Revelation 6, in the 5th Seal, the entire church in the air will be given back their spirit. John calls it putting on the robes of white. What is white other than a bright light in the context of both Daniel and Revelation? Paul calls it this mortal putting on immortality. We shed death to put on God's image. GOD is light.

 

[David in NJ]

The verse does not say we become stars.

"will shine like the"

"shine like the stars"

Putting on the spirit makes us a bright light, but still human, still a son of God, never a star/angel.

In the symbolism of Revelation 6, in the 5th Seal, the entire church in the air will be given back their spirit. John calls it putting on the robes of white. What is white other than a bright light in the context of both Daniel and Revelation? Paul calls it this mortal putting on immortality. We shed death to put on God's image. GOD is light.

Of course we do not become literal stars.
The point that God is making is clear and HE likens it to the stars for it speaks of Glorification.

 

[David in NJ]

The Flood was not for angels, because no angel ever made it to the earth. They were chained immediately after only getting so far. You are adding to Scripture when you say they were allowed time on earth doing something that is impossible in the first place. Angels cannot procreate. Besides those angels never appeared as humans, because God did not send them to earth, but God placed them in chains of darkness immediately.

Why did they have to be bound in darkness if they were in human form? The chains of darkness means they were still bright lights radiating light and heat. In order to be placed in the pit in sheol, they had to be bound in darkness to mitigate who they still were.

When they are loosed from the pit in the 5th Trumpet, they are not in human form either.

You said: "The Flood was not for angels, because no angel ever made it to the earth."

You are opposing God's words and under unbelief and error.

#1 God's words = "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

#2 God's words = "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;"

 

[Timtofly]

Fallen angels left their place of habitation and had sexual relations with daughters of Adam.

This is not Scripture. This is the lazy man's unbiblical theology. This is Satan's deception and lie. This is Satan getting humans to change God's Word in Genesis just as much as introducing evolution, and a billion year old universe.

Satan uses Scripture, but changes and adds to Scripture to turn it into lies and deception.

No verse in Scripture states this human reasoning. This is an addition to Scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

Jude clearly document the fallen angels held in chains and darkness, cross reference, gospel of Peter. Fallen angels left their place of habitation and had sexual relations with daughters of Adam. The fallen angels and satan are going into lake of fire. Luke chapter 21, Matthew chapter 24, the fallen angels are coming back, 6th trump. Satan as antichrist is thier leader. They will do same thing as in Noah's time. Jesus warned in Matthew chapter 24 about this. God is using satan and fallen angels to test people near future. Many people are biblically illiterate. Listening to misguided preachers or too lazy to study the bible. What's the consequences of worship antichrist??. Trip to sheol. Its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. Luke chapter 16, Richman and Lazarus. There's two sides of the gulf. Paradise and sheol. Get the picture. Study the bible.

100% True

No, they cannot SEE the Picture God painted because of unbelief.......

 

[CadyandZoe]

First off I do not think anyone is talking about sleeping.
Secondly that is why the angel had to explain things to Joseph still describing it as a sexual act.
....an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
conceive is not a miracle manifestation.

Why not?

 

[Timtofly]

Of course we do not become literal stars.
The point that God is making is clear and HE likens it to the stars for it speaks of Glorification.

That is why only angels are called stars, because they are the literal stars in the firmament.

Stars don't have any sexual abilities. Not even when sent by God in human form. And definitely do not become sexual beings in rebellion. Only God can change physical attributes of His creation.

We see the same thing when humans rebel at the end of the Millennium. They follow Satan across the earth (left their estate, own houses). Before they can do anything, they are consumed by fire. When the stars attempted to leave the firmament, before they could do anything and get far, they were bound in chains of darkness still as stars. They could not change who they were, because it was an act of rebellion just leaving their post.

An erroneous interpretation of 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1 does not change the truth of God's Word. You can declare my interpretation is wrong and goes against human theology. That is the point. Human reasoning and theology is not always correct. Especially when such interpretation contradicts other Scripture. Those claiming any usage of sons of God in Scripture means angels are contradicting other Scripture in their human reasoning. Even if it were true, their reasoning should never contradict Scripture.

There is a plausible explanation that does not contradict Scripture. Unfortunately, human theology trumps God's Word in many cases. Humans have their minds made up by human education before they can read and study God's Word for their own knowledge and understanding. Even then, they are sometimes blinded by the bias of established theology.

This is not even a debate of who wins because they are right or wrong. It already happened, and today's belief systems won't change what happened.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why not?

Simply because it is not described that way.
Words like miracle...miraculous....not normal....manifestation.....materialize, are not in the description. People have to add that when they want to describe it other than what the scriptures actually say and imply. We have what the scriptures say and the rest of the Bible backing it up as procreation, begot, conception.....words like miracle...miraculous....not normal....manifestation.....materialize are never mentioned. Most of the reasons they imaginatively come up with other ideas and beliefs is because they have been taught that sex is dirty, nasty, sinful, and of the Devil...and women are a close second to that....sex and women being a necessary evil....I can quote Early Church Fathers on this. This is sad, twisted, and messed up.....maybe sacrilegious. God designed male and female attractions relationships and procreations. Most of Christianity treat it like it is of the Devil! And here it has to be anything but procreation because God thinks sex and women are dirty, nasty, and sinful, and designed by the Devil to tempt people....So God would never do anything like that! It does not matter what the scriptures say.

Then you have the anti-Christians that try to twist the words to try to get people to believe Yeshua was not the Son of Yahweh and He was not a God Himself.

People have their reasons put the scriptures say what they say and the storyline backs it up.

 

[Timtofly]

You said: "The Flood was not for angels, because no angel ever made it to the earth."

You are opposing God's words and under unbelief and error.

#1 God's words = "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

#2 God's words = "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;"

Exactly, no mention of angels procreating with humans can ever be found in Scripture. They never came to earth.

They went from the firmament to the pit in sheol. They never made it to the earth. They were cast from the firmament down into the pit. Earth was never mentioned, period. They were not cast down from the earth, but from heaven.

Besides, the angels could only rebel after the Sabbath, Day of the Lord. No one rebelled during the Sabbath. Many generations happened on earth between God creating, and then God planting the Garden of Eden. The angels rebelled about the time Adam was placed in the Garden or after Eve was removed from Adam. The serpent had conversations with Eve, so we know it was before that. This event in Genesis 6 did not happen until around the time Noah was born. Noah himself lived 500 years during that period of history. Noah was born hundreds of years after Seth. Seth was born at least 100 years after Adam and Eve left the Garden. There is no indication in Scripture that God let rebel angels live in rebellion for a thousand years, or more. The indication is that they were placed in the pit immediately. Even Adam lived over 900 years in sin. There was already history before Adam was placed in the Garden.

The sons of God created on the 6th day were not the ones enticed by sin. It was many generations later even after Adam lived for hundreds of years in sin.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Simply because it is not described that way.

That wasn't my question. I see no reason why a conception can't be miraculous.

 

[Marty fox]

'And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.'
(Gen 6:1-2)

Hello there, @Marty fox,

I believe that the wording of Genesis 6:1-2 when measured against what you say in your OP, proves what you say to be untrue. For the words, 'men' and 'sons of God' are set in contrast. If they were all of mankind, then there would be no need for this distinction to be made.

This is the first usage of the term 'sons of God': When it is used elsewhere in the Old Testament it is used of spiritual beings other than mankind:-

'There were giants in the earth in those days;
and also after that,
when the sons of God came in
unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men
which were of old, men of renown.'
(Gen. 6:4 )

'Now there was a day when the sons of God
came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them.'
(Job 1:6 )

'Again there was a day when the sons of God
came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them
to present himself before the LORD.'
(Job 2:1)

'When the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'
(Job 38:7)

* These spiritual beings, are called 'sons' of God because created by Him. As, wonderfully, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are called, 'sons of God' in the New Testament, because they are a new creation in Christ Jesus, created by God, in Him:-

'But as many as received Him,
to them gave He power
to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His name:'
(John 1:12)

'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God.'
(Rom. 8:14)

'For the earnest expectation of the creature
waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.'
(Rom. 8:19)

'That ye may be blameless and harmless,
the sons of God, without rebuke,
in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,
among whom ye shine as lights in the world;'
(Php. 2:15)

'Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,
that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew Him not.'
(1Jn.3:1)

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when He shall appear,
we shall be like Him;
for we shall see Him as He is.'
(1Jn. 3:2)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks for your post but yes it is in contrast because its not all of man kind it’s taking about in the text it’s the faithful in contrast to the unfaithful.

It was the faithful who conformed to the unfaithful how else could the faithful come down to just one man Noah?

Thus the reason that God destroyed the world in the past will be the same reason God will destroy the world in the future when the faithful conform and the gospel stops spreading.

If not then why would God end the world if the gospel was still spreading?

 

[Grailhunter]

That wasn't my question. I see no reason why a conception can't be miraculous.

Let me see if I can explain where I am coming from.
My ministry I call the Johnny Appleseed of truth....I call myself here Grailhunter because I have spent my life in formal education in five countries looking for the truth. If you are on such a quest you cannot have preconceived notions....you cannot care what the truth is. When you are doing research...investigative work....you take into account what the evidence supports and what the evidence does not support and how it lines up with other facts.

Because I do not care what the truth is...if the scriptures indicated it was a miraculous conception.....then I would be telling you it was a miraculous conception....But that is not what they say...in the storyline of the New Testament the most important and pointed facts are that Yeshua is the Son of Yahweh and He is the Messiah....the Savior of the world.

If the Bible said that God manifested Christ in Miraim's womb and God adopted Christ after He was delivered.....that is what I would be telling you....but it does not.

If the Bible said that we are the same as Christ and as such are the sons and daughters of God....that is what I would be telling you.....but it does not.

If the Bible said that a flying saucer adducted Miriam and took her up and impregnated her and returned her...that is what I would be telling you....but it does not.

I simply do not care what the truth is, my responsibility to God is to find the truth and tell the truth.

What is the alternative? Assume that the scriptures are wrong? Feel free to add or subtract words if we want. Again I am going to say it....truth is not dependent on what you like or dislike. Truth is not dependent on what most people believe. A lot of times the truth is shocking!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Let me see if I can explain where I am coming from.
My ministry I call the Johnny Appleseed of truth....I call myself here Grailhunter because I have spent my life in formal education in five countries looking for the truth. If you are on such a quest you cannot have preconceived notions....you cannot care what the truth is. When you are doing research...investigative work....you take into account what the evidence supports and what the evidence does not support and how it lines up with other facts.

Because I do not care what the truth is...if the scriptures indicated it was a miraculous conception.....then I would be telling you it was a miraculous conception....But that is not what they say...in the storyline of the New Testament the most important and pointed facts are that Yeshua is the Son of Yahweh and He is the Messiah....the Savior of the world.

If the Bible said that God manifested Christ in Miraim's womb and adopted Christ after He was delivered.....that is what I would be telling you....but it does not.

If the Bible said that we are the same as Christ and as such are the sons and daughters of God....that is what I would be telling you.....but it does not.

If the Bible said that a flying saucer adducted Miriam and took her up and impregnated her and returned her...that is what I would be telling you....but it does not.

I simply do not care what the truth is, my responsibility to God is to find the truth and tell the truth.

First, you said that the term conception can't refer to the miraculous. And of course, it can. Second, the text says that the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" Mary and apart from a union with a man, she conceived. If this doesn't indicate a miracle then I don't know what would.

 

[Grailhunter]

First, you said that the term conception can't refer to the miraculous. And of course, it can. Second, the text says that the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" Mary and apart from a union with a man, she conceived. If this doesn't indicate a miracle then I don't know what would.

We can say that she conceived God's child.....Son....and that is a miracle because God manifested as a man and procreated with a woman.
But a male seed fertilizing a female egg is mostly along the norm.
But still the scriptures do not say....
miraculous impregnation...
miraculous conception....
miraculous procreation...

You and many others would like to add this word. Trust me I run into this all the time....People think, It would just be better with this word or that word!

Then Christ and then the Apostles had the whole of the New Testament to give this a different description, but they did not. They did not add the word miracle or miraculous....

The most important thing....God so loved the world....God loves us....God sired His Son through a woman.....and through a woman the Savior of the world was delivered.....and then a God walked among us.....and offered salvation to the world through His blood and His perfect sacrifice, as to which salvation was offered to all that believe He is both God and Savior....that is the miracle to hang your hat on.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is not what the verse even says. The angels/stars sang in the heavens.

The sons of God/humanity shouted back from the earth.

That was a thousand years before Adam disobeyed God.

And the biblical reference for all that is????

Adam's offspring did not become righteous. The result was more wickedness. You all speculate it was angels who cannot even procreate, doing the impossible. All on earth were humans and most were sons of God. Compared to Adam dead corruptible flesh, the sons of God were giants. We don't know how big they were, except for bones dug up out of the ground, and that is still speculation where they came from.

Nowhere does it say that angels cannot procreate! that is a made up myth.

The church removed to heaven would not be a new phenomenon. The sons of God were removed as well. We don't have the full story and you all make up more absurd speculation than what is in Scripture. We have history from Adam's perspective.

And where did you get your inside info? did you get some special revelation for your esoteric interpretations?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sounds like you have a human speculation story without any Scripture. The sons of God did not leave heaven, because they started out on earth. To get to heaven, they would have to leave earth first.

Satan and the angels only rebelled one time, now you have two different angel rebellions. Two different leaders???? You don't even know who these devils and demons are that roam the earth.

Angels cannot procreate. Your impossible scenario turns Jesus into a liar.

Angels can procreate or could in the past.

Satan and the 1/3 rebelled against god.

The angels who came to earth- left their first habitation (realm) and are now in chains of darkness waiting judgment. these are the Gen. 6 angels. they did not partake of the Satanic rebellion, but a different form of disobedience.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Now you are taking verses out of context and order. You have stars created before the 4th day.

Do you not understand that God was reminding Job of the whole week of creation, not a time period prior to creation?

The stars were on day 4. The sons of God on day 6. That was the week of creation. 8,640 minutes. Or 144 hours. Or 6 days.

Humans are fallen sons of God, just like those angels chained in darkness for the 5th Trumpet woe, are fallen stars.

Not in the least.

angels are fallen sons of God

man was nor created when God laid the foundations of the earth.

man was created on day 6. man could not in Job present themselves before the Lord with Satan. Just can't happen- all have sinned!