Where is the real abomination? - The context of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13

[Bob]

Certainly in the area of elevating women above that status of being seen as mere property.
Paul taught us to LOVE our wives. A revolutionary thought at the time.

/

Point taken.

So, what exactly was the Apostle teaching?

Speculation: in Biblical Greek there were several words for different types of love: Storge, the love for family members; Phileo, the love between friends; Eros, sexual love; Agape, divine love. Perhaps Paul would say that true love for a spouse would entail all of these!

But see also Genesis 29: 18 - 20.

 

[St. SteVen]

So, what exactly was the Apostle teaching?

Haven't dug into it too deeply.
Loving them as Christ loved the church is a tall order.
How many men have given much of anything up to accommodate a relationship with their wife?

• Ephesians 5:25
  Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
  
  
• Colossians 3:19
  Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Both of these use a form of agape'.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

We're all familiar with the famous clobber verse used against homosexual relations.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. - Leviticus 18:22 NRSVue

Or its counterpart a few chapters later.

If a man goes to bed with[a] a male as one goes to bed with a woman,[b]
the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death;
their blood guilt is on themselves. - Leviticus 20:13 NET

Here's the question:
Is it fair to cherry-pick this verse out of context
to use as a weapon against others if we aren't willing to
abide by the the commands and recognize
the inferences in the rest of the chapter?

For starters, Lev. 20:13 says that they should be put to death. ???
The same for a whole host of banned sexual relations listed in these two chapters. ???
Other consequences listed are being "cut off from their people", or even burned with fire.

Two verses earlier we find this exception to polygamy. Do we therefore approve of polygamy in general?

“‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living. - Leviticus 18:18 NIV

What are your thoughts?

[

 

[Bob]

Thank you for your intriguing questions.

My perspective: Let us start with the two great commandments, on which hang the Law and the Prophets.

So, for example, the Law and the Prophets exhortation us to care for widows and orphans, and the poor in general. But then Jesus gave us the following (Matthew 25:35,36)— feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, . . . . In other words, Jesus understanding of Love Thy Neighbor is much more comprehensive (naturally!).

Thus my perspective is that Jesus wants to understand the core principles in the Law and apply them. So, as another example, Commandments 6 - 10 and Leviticus 19 command us to never harm any one on purpose, or (to put it in a positive way) be gentle and peaceful with your neighbor.

Now, when it comes to marriage, Genesis 2:24 is the commanding verse (repeated by Jesus!). The essence of the Leviticus passages tell me then that the only sex sanctioned by God is within marriage between a man and a woman. Thus, never mind same-sex marriage: same-sex sex undermines the nuclear family and holy matrimony, and God says Absolutely Never.

As for polygamy, recall what Jesus said about divorce (Matthew 19:8)—”Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Although polygamy was never addressed by Jesus, we might could surmise He would have had the same sort of response.

Feel free to criticize any of my awkward analysis!

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

As for polygamy, recall what Jesus said about divorce (Matthew 19:8)—”Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Although polygamy was never addressed by Jesus, we might could surmise He would have had the same sort of response.

Thanks for your post, Bob.
In reference to polygamy, I can only find this restriction against marrying your wife's sister as a rival wife.
In the new testament we read that an Elder must be the husband of one wife, meaning polygamy was common.

“‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living. - Leviticus 18:18 NIV

Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?

Why does the Apostle Paul require that church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if polygamy wasn't common in the church? Titus 1:5-6 ESV This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Bob]

Thanks for your post, Bob.
In reference to polygamy, I can only find this restriction against marrying your wife's sister as a rival wife.
In the new testament we read that an Elder must be the husband of one wife, meaning polygamy was common.

“‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living. - Leviticus 18:18 NIV

Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?

Why does the Apostle Paul require that church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if polygamy wasn't common in the church? Titus 1:5-6 ESV This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is...

www.christianityboard.com

[

You are too kind.

If I may, there is one more core-principle idea to run by you. The first part is straightforward, but the second is controversial in the Christian community.

You cite penalties in the Law for disobedience. The essence is that a community of the faithful must have a procedure for correcting straying members, and even though individuals are never to harm neighbors, as a community God authorizes them to take corrective action, including force.

Jesus recognized the need for such a procedure, and hence gave us Matthew 18: 15-17.
The Apostle Paul reiterated the same: 1 Corinthians 5: 12,13.

All straightforward.

Now for the controversy: In a nation governed by rule of law, transgressors of the law are to be dealt with by a justice system, which consists of police, courts, and prisons. The analogy with scripture is that Might FOR Right is the prerogative of a just state. Yet, some Christians believe the use of force by police cannot be sanctioned for Christians (and hence conscientious objectors in those drafted by the military), and Christians should not even contemplate running for elected offices.

(See, e.g., a recent thread on Enemies and vigorous posts by Aunty Jane.)

Augustine of Hippo, in The City of God, chapter 21, believes that a Christian can exercise force when properly authorized, in the enforcement of just laws.

What do you think?

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you think?

Interesting post. Thanks.

My personal rule of thumb for myself as a citizen and Christian is:
Force should not be used to defend myself (do not resist and evil person)
but I will exercise force in the rescue/defense of others. Especially strangers.

If I am accosted on the street, I will exercise diplomacy and seek to make peace with the person accosting me.
Admittedly, my diplomacy skills are pretty good. Which I credit biblical teaching. "A soft answer turns away wrath."

If I encounter someone else being accosted on the street, I will stop and assess the situation.
Should a helpless person be in the process of being bullied, I will engage as a defender of the helpless.

There principles apply when I know the individuals as well.

Fortunately, these situations have never come to a physical fight.
I had a draft card when I was in high school but was not drafted and have not served in the military
as both my father and grandfather did. I do enjoy fight movies though.

Notice the difference between the law, which Jesus treats as hearsay, how Jesus wants us to respond instead.

Matthew 5:38-40 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a]
39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

You cite penalties in the Law for disobedience. The essence is that a community of the faithful must have a procedure for correcting straying members, and even though individuals are never to harm neighbors, as a community God authorizes them to take corrective action, including force.

Perhaps I should be clear about my stance on OT law.
I believe we are not under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

The essence is that a community of the faithful must have a procedure for correcting straying members, and even though individuals are never to harm neighbors, as a community God authorizes them to take corrective action, including force.

This is an interesting issue, to which I have devoted considerable thought.
I created topics to work these things out in my own mind. This topic below would probably be key to your statement above.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...

www.christianityboard.com

I also have a whole collection of topics on the subject of doctrinal unity and division.

The Unity and Division threads - Unified to one topic - Divided by links

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Now for the controversy: In a nation governed by rule of law, transgressors of the law are to be dealt with by a justice system, which consists of police, courts, and prisons. The analogy with scripture is that Might FOR Right is the prerogative of a just state. Yet, some Christians believe the use of force by police cannot be sanctioned for Christians (and hence conscientious objectors in those drafted by the military), and Christians should not even contemplate running for elected offices.

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. - Romans 13:4

In the Lord’s hand the king’s heart is a stream of water that he channels toward all who please him. - Proverbs 21:1

We under the God-given authority of our leaders, those leaders are however under the authority of God.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. - Ephesians 6:12

If we choose to battle these authorities it should be done in the spiritual realm. However, there is a time and place to take a stand when enough is enough. Realizing that the authorities will exercise power over us.

I love this story.

Acts 12:3-11 NIV
When he saw that this met with approval among the Jews,
he proceeded to seize Peter also. This happened during the Festival of Unleavened Bread.
4 After arresting him, he put him in prison,
handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each.
Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.
5 So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him.
6 The night before Herod was to bring him to trial, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers,
bound with two chains, and sentries stood guard at the entrance.
7 Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell.
He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. “Quick, get up!” he said, and the chains fell off Peter’s wrists.
8 Then the angel said to him, “Put on your clothes and sandals.” And Peter did so.
“Wrap your cloak around you and follow me,” the angel told him.
9 Peter followed him out of the prison, but he had no idea that what the angel was doing
was really happening; he thought he was seeing a vision.
10 They passed the first and second guards and came to the iron gate leading to the city.
It opened for them by itself, and they went through it.
When they had walked the length of one street, suddenly the angel left him.
11 Then Peter came to himself and said, “Now I know without a doubt that the Lord has
sent his angel and rescued me from Herod’s clutches and from
everything the Jewish people were hoping would happen.”

[

 

[Bob]

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. - Romans 13:4

In the Lord’s hand the king’s heart is a stream of water that he channels toward all who please him. - Proverbs 21:1

We under the God-given authority of our leaders, those leaders are however under the authority of God.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. - Ephesians 6:12

If we choose to battle these authorities it should be done in the spiritual realm. However, there is a time and place to take a stand when enough is enough. Realizing that the authorities will exercise power over us.

I love this story.

Acts 12:3-11 NIV
When he saw that this met with approval among the Jews,
he proceeded to seize Peter also. This happened during the Festival of Unleavened Bread.
4 After arresting him, he put him in prison,
handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each.
Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.
5 So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him.
6 The night before Herod was to bring him to trial, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers,
bound with two chains, and sentries stood guard at the entrance.
7 Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell.
He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. “Quick, get up!” he said, and the chains fell off Peter’s wrists.
8 Then the angel said to him, “Put on your clothes and sandals.” And Peter did so.
“Wrap your cloak around you and follow me,” the angel told him.
9 Peter followed him out of the prison, but he had no idea that what the angel was doing
was really happening; he thought he was seeing a vision.
10 They passed the first and second guards and came to the iron gate leading to the city.
It opened for them by itself, and they went through it.
When they had walked the length of one street, suddenly the angel left him.
11 Then Peter came to himself and said, “Now I know without a doubt that the Lord has
sent his angel and rescued me from Herod’s clutches and from
everything the Jewish people were hoping would happen.”

[

Thanks for all the details in the responses. You Indeed have clearly put a lot of thought into the subject.


Blessings.