face2face
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This OP and your above quote is very much related.
Why did Paul use the word sin in relation to what Christ was made?
F2F
When Jesus Came out the Grave, he was Born Again.
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Why did Paul use the word sin in relation to what Christ was made?
F2F
Of course He was.
I just reread my previous post.. apparently, I left this completely out … but Jesus purposefully made that statement “ into your hands I commit my spirit.” This is Jesus returning His holiness, His spirit back to God because the sin of the world and God’s Holy Spirit within Him cannot be in the same place - He willingly / voluntarily would return God’s holiness back to God - this was the most horrible / painful / unbelievably incomprehensible act the Messiah could do!!! The physical pain He had to endure was nothing compared to He would know and experience by having to give up and separate Himself from His Father.
Thank you for your comments. For me , all of this ties together: God breathed His holiness into Adam and it had to return back to God after he sinned. There is no place on earth or in the universe where we can find “righteousness, holiness or His Holy Spirit.”
Jesus came to earth with God’s holiness, righteousness, spirit within Him. But He was willing to return it to His Father knowing He would take on the sin of the world and this would demand the return of that righteousness / holiness within Him. This was the most unbelievable sacrifice! He would willingly have to separate His holiness with His Father - we cannot imagine what that could possibly mean!
Jesus said, “I thirst,” meaning He was willing to drink this cup of sorrow.” He would take on the sin of the world. He would willingly give up His spirit to God, “into your hands I commit my spirit.” And then He declared to the world, “it is finished.” Jesus would fulfill all 6 requirements that God had given Him recorded in Daniel 9:24.
But God would raise Him up on the 3rd day incorruptible. This is what will happen at the end times. Jesus has demonstrated this … but only for those that are willing to accept Him as our Lord and Savior and give up our life (symbolically) and be “born again with His Holy Spirit.” This does not mean we are “perfected” while on this earth, that will take place at the resurrection. God’s plan of salvation / restoration will be complete… full circle- Adam van once again be filled with the righteousness of God, and be with Him forever. Sin will never again be found.
Well, he could not possibly have continued to exist in the presence of God - without God’s holiness within him, he certainly would have been destroyed. But God figuratively clothed him and sent him outside the Garden where he would have to live without His holiness within him. Now, God would design a plan to restore His holiness back into him .
Good night and God bless.
Thank you. I recently completed a 5 year study on Daniel and I found just how much one must find in the Scriptures (OT and NT) those verses that are necessary to interpret Daniel. There is no way we can tie them together or see how they ALL fit together to complete the “picture on the outside of the box.” Only God could have created this most complicated and unbelievable 10,000 piece puzzle. But when God allows someone to find one of this pieces that fits together, it is the best feeling in the world. Daniel, for me, is the most difficult, complicated, amazing book… The commentary has been finished. If you would care to receive a free copy, please send me your mailing information and it will be sent directly to you from Amazon. Or, if you prefer, provide a PO Box, or the mailing address of your church (send a copy to your Pastor as well), or a private message asking for the Title of the Book, the ISBN #, and you can purchase it online. (This is offered to others in this forum as well… until I can no longer afford it). If interested, the only thing I would request is if you find any value in it, to please recommend it. If not, no problem!).
I can assure you, this commentary departs from “today’s accepted interpretations.”
Dear marks,
In Heb 10:6, "sacrifices" is an added word to create the phrase "sacrifices for sin". In Heb 10:8, "offering" is an added word to create "offering for sin". This is the same thing that should be done in 2Cor 5:21 to create the phrase "offering for sin".
As I pointed out in another post, there is no second witness for Christ being "made sin" but there are other witnesses for Christ being made an offering for sin. Also, if Christ was made sin, how can sin be a perfect sacrifice for sin. Sin cannot forgive sin. It makes no sense for Christ to be made sin but it makes perfect sense for Christ to be made an offering for sin.
Joe
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Amen!...agreed.
Look at this , why do you think Jesus cried out to the Father?
What did Jesus cry out before he died?
Foremost among all the unanswered questions is why Jesus uttered his heart-rending cry on the cross. “About three in the afternoon, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?'” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (ESV, Matthew 27:46).
Thanks very much for your post....i definitely agree regarding study, I can read you have studied well.....look forward to more discussion with you.
Will be back later today, God Bless.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I can’t imagine what it must have been like for them, to not exist in the presence of God.
When you say without God’s holiness within him,he certainly would have been destroyed, what do you mean by that?
I can’t imagine being unborn Of God’s Spirit, not that will ever happen, once Born Again of imperishable seed, that liveth and abideth forever.
Fills me with dread, just the thought of that happening, anyway that’s another topic....
I agree. But can you imagine what Jesus must have gone through / had giving up / sacrificed knowing He that when He took on the sin of the world, He would have to “give up His spirit that He had with His Father?”
He was one with His Father yet He willingly separated Himself from Him to take the sin of the world in His shoulders. That intimacy, that holiness, that righteousness, that complete love had to return to His Father because they cannot be in the presence of sin.
No one can see God and live. Abraham was allowed to see Him as a man (Jesus and the two angels). Moses would see the back of God as He passed John 4:12 and Exodus 33:20. We cannot comprehend or survive seeing His glory. The only way we can see Him as He is and be with Him is when He places His (not ours because we do not have any) righteousness back into us once again.
It is so frightening to see people who reject God.
Jesus is revealing the horror and sheer pain from being separated from God. He has taken on the sin of the world and now He accepts the consequences— Jesus reveals what He is experiencing by quoting the first two verses in Psalm 22. By quoting the first two verses, He is telling all to read Psalm 22 - not only is He fulfilling this prophecy but the pain He has to endure.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Yes I understand this. "for sin", the used of "for" before sin tells us this is correct.
Except it's a different wording. So there's that. It doesn't use that same word. So I question the validity to do this. I don't see it myself.
There is a parallel passage, not exactly parallel, but I'm sure you will see what I mean, see below:
Colossians 2:12-14 KJV
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This "handwriting", cheirographon, was what they called their promisory notes, a certificate of indebtedness. We see this in Philemon, as Paul writes, I will repay, see, I've written with my own hand. This was learned from studying the ancient papyrii.
When the debt was paid, the creditor would write "tetelestai", "it is finished", a phrase you'll likely recognize.
The debt we owed for our sin was nailed to the cross. "Behold the Lamb of God, who carries away the sin of the world".
1 Peter 2:24 KJV
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
He bore our sins in His body, this Lamb of God, that carried away the sin of the world, being nailed to the cross, our debt of sin.
I see this that all humanity's sin was put into Jesus' body, and He died with it all, taking it away.
Much love!
How so? I don't see that, and I think @bro.tan is not right. Some think rebirth comes at the end of one's life if one has sufficiently pleased God by Lawkeeping, no, I fully disagree with that. Salvation as a reward for works is flatly refuted in Scripture.
But you said, 'related', that can mean anything you want it to.
So . . . Related in what way?
Better to ask Paul, or better yet God, why He inspired the words He inspired. The big question is, will you accept what He said, will you believe it? This one takes some study, but most importantly, a willingness to just stay with what is written.
Much love!
Yes . . . we need to pay close attention to all that Scripture says.
1 Peter 1:1-5 KJV
1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Letters from Heaven?? Or, is Peter blessing God for the rebirth already given? He was blessing God for the rebirth already given. This thread is in error from the start. Salvation as a reward for works is a perversion of the true Gospel.
Much love!
Dear marks,
I can agree with much of what you said until your conclusion at the end when you said:
I see this that all humanity's sin was put into Jesus' body
In 1Pet 2:24 when it says that Christ bore our sins, it does not mean that humanity's sin was put into Jesus' body or that Christ was made sin. The Greek word translated as "bare" in 1Pet 2:24 means:
anapherō:
- to carry or bring up, to lead up
- men to a higher place
- to put upon the altar, to bring to the altar, to offer
- to lift up one's self, to take upon one's self
- to place on one's self anything as a load to be carried
- to sustain, i.e. their punishment
One other point:
When mankind's promissory note of debt to sin was nailed to the cross, Christ was purchasing that promissory note by His death and became mankind's near-kinsmen redeemer.
Do you understand what that means?
Mankind's debt of death that we owe because of our sin was purchased by Christ. Now mankind owes our debt of death to Christ. Christ will be collecting that debt of death when He converts mankind into children of God. The child of the Devil (all mankind) who is the one who sinned and is who will be paying the debt of death to Christ. That is why John 3:18 says that mankind is "condemned already". Mankind owes a debt of death and it must & will be paid to satisfy justice. But now since mankind owes that debt to Christ (our near-kinsman redeemer), Christ will be merciful to mankind and will bless mankind with a new birth as a child of God PRIOR to mankind paying that debt of death to Him. The spiritual process of being born again as a child of God and paying the debt of death is called conversion. It is in this way that Christ saves mankind.
In this age, Christ is only converting the Elect. They are the first fruits of His harvest. This harvest is represented by the Feast of Weeks (First Fruits). But since Christ is a good farmer, He will not let the rest of His crop rot in the field. In the final age, Christ will harvest the balance of mankind. This final and complete harvest of mankind is represented by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
After the final harvest is made, this scripture will be testified to be true:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
Interesting way to put this, that He purchased our debt.
Yes, I understand about the kinsman redeemer.
The Scripture is that He erased our debt, and purchased us, actually. I'll stick with that.
Interesting wording though, wouldn't you say? That our debt was nailed to the cross. Jesus was nailed to that cross. Sure makes one think about the completely personal nature of our salvation. Jesus truly did die for me!
Have you ever seen the short film, The Crossing?
Much love!
Dear marks,
Yes, Christ carried mankind's sin in His body but that does not mean that Christ became sin. Christ became an offering for mankind's sin and that is what other scripture states. You are trying to make a doctrine out of one verse of scripture which should not be done. Remember, truth is taught "here a little, and there a little". You must have at least two scriptures to prove any truth.
Joe
Dear marks,
One more thought on Christ being made sin. Christ was a lamb without spot or blemish. He had no sin of His own but He did carry mankind's sin to the cross so that His death would purchase mankind's sin debt. Now mankind's owes our debt of death to Christ. If Christ was actually made sin, He would have spots and blemishes and His death would not have been acceptable.
Joe
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