When Jesus Came out the Grave, he was Born Again.

[bro.tan]

So what you are saying is that people do not become Christians in this life, but only when resurrected.
So Peters comma d to those at pentecostal was incorrect.

Of course you become a Christians if you be Christ like. You have to truly walk in this word of God and keep the Commandments, Statues and Judgements. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Now when we go into being born again, that comes at the first or second resurrection.

Even Job was aware of this. Take a look. Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Take a look at Philippians and you will see Job and Paul are on the same page.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Windmill Charge]

you become a Christians if you be Christ like. You have to truly walk in this word of God and keep the Commandments, Statues and Judgements.

So salvati9n is through works, not as Jesus says by faith.
John3:16 who ever believes in me has eternal life.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I went to a Pentecostal church once and a woman got the spirit, fell to the floor and started flopping around like a fish. That spirit was a bit scary for me.

No that was the spell check and my not spotting it. Should read like at penticost.

 

[CTK]

No Jesus was never born again. Being born again is only for sinful man. One that is by nature alientated from God due to a sin nature (the flesh) Jesus did not need saving and thus did not need to be born again.

I don’t know if you will agree with this, but in a way, Jesus had to be “born again.”

One, He took on the sin of the world and He specifically said just before He died on the cross, “into Your hands do I commit my spirit.”

This means to me that sin (sin of the world) could not be in the presence of God (Jesus). So He had to give His Holy Spirit back to God. God would resurrect Jesus on the 3rd day and place His Holy Spirit back into Jesus. This also symbolizes what will take place for all those who have placed their faith in Him. God will once again restore His Holy Spirit back into us and we will once again be a “living soul.”

In Genesis 2:7, God created Adam by taking the dust from the earth and then He breathed “His holiness, His righteousness, His spirit into Adam. It was not simply air to jump start his existence. But after he sinned, God’s Holy Spirit, His righteousness, His holiness could no longer stay within Adam. Again, God’s righteousness can not be in the presence of sin.

Adam was forced to leave the Garden and this began God’s plan of salvation- to once again restore His holiness / righteousness back within us. This is the only way we can be with Him in His presence.

Adam left the Garden and he was no longer a “living soul.” He was just like the animals on the earth - he was a “living being.” It was God’s righteousness/ holiness that separated man from all other living creatures.

After they left the Garden, all humans would be born as “living beings.” So, just as His resurrection symbolized the “first fruits or the first born.” God will restore His holiness within us and we will be “born again” as a “living soul.”

 

[wooddog]

No that was the spell check and my not spotting it. Should read like at penticost.

Yes, Pentecost was a manifestation of the Spirt. Peter quoted Joel and relayed that believers will ,dream dreams, see visions, and prophesy.

 

[FaithWillDo]

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Dear bro.tan,
Jesus was NEVER born again. Your understanding of that concept is carnal and incorrect.

Being "born again" is the same thing as being converted or being made into a new creation. The new birth occurs when a spiritually marred person is changed into a spiritually perfect person (Jer 18:4). Mankind's new birth is necessary because the original person is "condemned already" (John 3:18) because of sin. It is only the new creation (a child of God) who is not condemned and who enters the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since Jesus was spiritually perfect, He did not need to be "born again". And because mankind was created spiritually imperfect, mankind does need to be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer a babe), ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

When Christ first comes to a person to begin the conversion process, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The small amount of the Spirit will give the person "faith" and certain spiritual gifts. Then, when they are presented the Gospel, they will make a confession of faith and will enter the church. But because the person remains spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted, they are a spiritual "babe" who can only draw milk (Christ and Him crucified).

In this condition, they can see the Kingdom of Heaven from afar, but they are not in the Kingdom of Heaven.

This same truth applies to the OT faithful who remained unconverted:

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises (salvation/conversion), but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us (the Elect), that they without us should not be made perfect (converted).

Note: Jesus is the Kingdom of Heaven. When a person is "born again" (converted), they are "in Christ" and are spiritually governed by Him.
If the new babe is one of the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them "quickly" after a time of waiting.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

1Cor 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you (Early Rain): 7 So that you come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end (Latter Rain), that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (judgment).

However, during the believer's time of waiting, they will commit fornication with Satan (believe Satan's lies over Christ's truth) and will no longer be a chaste virgin (marriage analogy applies). This is when the believer is indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ, when the Abomination of Desolation occurs, when they fall from grace and when they enter the apostate church.

These scriptures apply:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (Satan's another gospel) shall be preached in all the world (the believer) for a witness unto all nations (all thoughts and beliefs of the believer); and then shall the end come (time of conversion).

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (no longer a babe/the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

To restore the chosen believer, Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment (the Day of the Lord). This spiritual work of Christ will convert the fallen away "babe" into a spiritually "born again" child of God who no longer needs milk. This is when the believer enters the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat 18:3).

You quoted this scripture:

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When a person is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are "born of water". When they are given the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they are born of the Spirit and will then enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is the same concept that James teaches below:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James made this statement to unconverted believers who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They were needing Christ to "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit so that they could enter the Kingdom of Heaven. James encourages these "babes" to be patient "for the Lord draweth nigh".

Christ's second coming is not a one-time physically visible event that only happens at the literal end of this age. Christ's second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event that happens within the lifetime of each Elect believer before they die.

Joe

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don’t know if you will agree with this, but in a way, Jesus had to be “born again.”

One, He took on the sin of the world and He specifically said just before He died on the cross, “into Your hands do I commit my spirit.”

This means to me that sin (sin of the world) could not be in the presence of God (Jesus). So He had to give His Holy Spirit back to God. God would resurrect Jesus on the 3rd day and place His Holy Spirit back into Jesus. This also symbolizes what will take place for all those who have placed their faith in Him. God will once again restore His Holy Spirit back into us and we will once again be a “living soul.”

In Genesis 2:7, God created Adam by taking the dust from the earth and then He breathed “His holiness, His righteousness, His spirit into Adam. It was not simply air to jump start his existence. But after he sinned, God’s Holy Spirit, His righteousness, His holiness could no longer stay within Adam. Again, God’s righteousness can not be in the presence of sin.

Adam was forced to leave the Garden and this began God’s plan of salvation- to once again restore His holiness / righteousness back within us. This is the only way we can be with Him in His presence.

Adam left the Garden and he was no longer a “living soul.” He was just like the animals on the earth - he was a “living being.” It was God’s righteousness/ holiness that separated man from all other living creatures.

After they left the Garden, all humans would be born as “living beings.” So, just as His resurrection symbolized the “first fruits or the first born.” God will restore His holiness within us and we will be “born again” as a “living soul.”

This "in a way" you speak of is fraught with error. Jesus paid for sin by becoming sin. when He was done paying for our sin, He was pure again. Being bo0rn again is only for those who are spiritually dead and need to be made alive in the sp[irit again. Jesus had no need as He is God the son. He had no need to repent. NOwhere in Scripture do you see "in a way" that Jesus was or needed to be born again.

 

[FaithWillDo]

This "in a way" you speak of is fraught with error. Jesus paid for sin by becoming sin. when He was done paying for our sin, He was pure again. Being bo0rn again is only for those who are spiritually dead and need to be made alive in the sp[irit again. Jesus had no need as He is God the son. He had no need to repent. NOwhere in Scripture do you see "in a way" that Jesus was or needed to be born again.

Dear Ronald Nolette,
You are correct, Jesus was spiritually perfect and did not need to be born again.

However, Jesus was not made sin as you posted. Jesus was made a offering for mankind's sin. The teaching that Jesus was made sin comes from an incorrect translation of 2Cor 5:21. How can a person be made sin anyway? It makes no sense. Sin means to "miss the mark" of God's standard. Christ, in no way, ever missed God's mark.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
Jesus was NEVER born again. Your understanding of that concept is carnal and incorrect.

Being "born again" is the same thing as being converted or being made into a new creation. The new birth occurs when a spiritually marred person is changed into a spiritually perfect person (Jer 18:4). Mankind's new birth is necessary because the original person is "condemned already" (John 3:18) because of sin. It is only the new creation (a child of God) who is not condemned and who enters the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since Jesus was spiritually perfect, He did not need to be "born again". And because mankind was created spiritually imperfect, mankind does need to be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Joe

Hey Joe.....I can see it's a little hard for you to see this thing, but you have to understand that Jesus is the prototype for man becoming God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (John 10: 34,35). Now we know we must be changed physically, let's see when this will take place what type of body we will have and why. Paul will show you this in I Corinthians the 15th chapter. Take a close look and you will understand why the Lord said in John chapter 3 flesh and blood can not see the kingdom of God. Pay close attention, Paul will repeat himself several times.

I Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Why would Paul mention the dead being raised? I Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Look at verse 50, notice what it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Remembers Jesus said something similar to this in John chapter 3. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is the Fathers Kingdom, which Jesus spoke of. During the Lord's thousand-year reign with the saint, flesh and blood beings will still be on the earth along with spirit beings. There will be only spirit beings after the second resurrection. Remember what Nicodemus asked the Lord? He asked Him, " how could a man be born again when he was already old?" And the Lord answered by saying, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” In order for you to be born again you must be changed into a spiritual body.

When will this take place?

51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

At the last trump, and not a second before. No one can make the statement, "I am born again" But the Lord that came down from heaven which is Jesus. He is the only one that rose from the grave and remained alive.

 

[bro.tan]

So salvati9n is through works, not as Jesus says by faith.
John3:16 who ever believes in me has eternal life.

We both right, because we have to have both, faith and works. We must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. The word say in (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Hey Joe.....I can see it's a little hard for you to see this thing, but you have to understand that Jesus is the prototype for man becoming God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (John 10: 34,35). Now we know we must be changed physically, let's see when this will take place what type of body we will have and why. Paul will show you this in I Corinthians the 15th chapter. Take a close look and you will understand why the Lord said in John chapter 3 flesh and blood can not see the kingdom of God. Pay close attention, Paul will repeat himself several times.

I Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Why would Paul mention the dead being raised? I Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Look at verse 50, notice what it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Remembers Jesus said something similar to this in John chapter 3. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is the Fathers Kingdom, which Jesus spoke of. During the Lord's thousand-year reign with the saint, flesh and blood beings will still be on the earth along with spirit beings. There will be only spirit beings after the second resurrection. Remember what Nicodemus asked the Lord? He asked Him, " how could a man be born again when he was already old?" And the Lord answered by saying, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” In order for you to be born again you must be changed into a spiritual body.

When will this take place?

51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

At the last trump, and not a second before. No one can make the statement, "I am born again" But the Lord that came down from heaven which is Jesus. He is the only one that rose from the grave and remained alive.

Dear bro.tan,
When mankind sins, it happens because mankind was created with a spirit that was marred and subject to vanity. Mankind does not sin because mankind has a body of flesh and blood. The physical body merely tempts mankind to sin - it is not the cause of mankind's sinfulness.

Consider Christ:
Christ came in a body of flesh and blood just like the one that was given to mankind - however, Christ was spiritually perfect. As a result, Christ never sinned. But since mankind was made spiritually marred and subject to vanity, mankind sins and sins frequently.

To stop mankind from sinning, Christ will change mankind spiritually. This is the work that Christ is doing now under the New Covenant. It is a spiritual covenant and the works that Christ performs under the New Covenant are spiritual works. After Christ does His spiritual works within a person, they will be spiritually changed. This change is called conversion and when it happens, it is called the First Resurrection or being "born again".

Consider what Paul said below:

Gal 4:29 But as then he (son of the bondwoman, typed by Ishmael) that was born after the flesh persecuted him (son of the freewoman, typed by Isaac) that was born after the Spirit, even so it is NOW.

As this verse clearly states, the new birth is spiritual and it occurs "now" while the converted person still has a physical body. When the physical body dies, the converted/born again person will receive their inheritance of the Kingdom of Heaven in a new spiritual body upon their resurrection from the grave. Why? Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven - only a spiritual body that never dies will receive that inheritance. That truth is what Paul was teaching in 1Cor 15:36-50.

Now consider what Paul says here:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This scripture is a teaching on the Day of the Lord which an Elect person will experience before they die. The Day of the Lord begins for an Elect person immediately after Christ has come to them a second time and poured out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the person's spiritual blindness will be healed which will cause Christ to spiritually appear to them. After Christ appears, judgment (Day of the Lord) will commence and take the chaff from within the believer (this is why Christ is called a "thief"). After the chaff is removed, the believer will be converted and "born again". The "woman" mentioned in verse 3 is the freewoman who is about to give birth to the new child of God. It is a spiritual birth just as Paul says in Gal 4:29.

Peter also states that being "born again" happens spiritually when a person is converted:

1Pet 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John makes the same claim here:

1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Joe

 

[Windmill Charge]

We both right, because we have to have both, faith and works. We must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. The word say in (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works.

Actually salvation is only through faith. Our works are merely a demonstration of our love for Jesus.

The moment we view them as something more than that they loose any value.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Dear Ronald Nolette,
You are correct, Jesus was spiritually perfect and did not need to be born again.

However, Jesus was not made sin as you posted. Jesus was made a offering for mankind's sin. The teaching that Jesus was made sin comes from an incorrect translation of 2Cor 5:21. How can a person be made sin anyway? It makes no sense. Sin means to "miss the mark" of God's standard. Christ, in no way, ever missed God's mark.

Joe

It doesn't matter whether it makes sense to you ro not.

2 Corinthians 5:21​

​

King James Version​

​

​

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It is not an incorrect translation of the passage. The word sin there is "harmartia" which is never translated as sin offering. It means sin and sin only.

It doesn't matter that you or I can wrap our heads around it. Jesus became our sin, and we became His righteousness, whether it makes sense to you or not. there is not one place in the NT where the word sin offering is found.

Of 39 English language bibles, only 5 write it as sin offering. And those 5 are not translations but modern paraphrase's which are the wors versions of English bibles out there.

 

[FaithWillDo]

It doesn't matter whether it makes sense to you ro not.

2 Corinthians 5:21​

​

King James Version​

​

​

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It is not an incorrect translation of the passage. The word sin there is "harmartia" which is never translated as sin offering. It means sin and sin only.

It doesn't matter that you or I can wrap our heads around it. Jesus became our sin, and we became His righteousness, whether it makes sense to you or not. there is not one place in the NT where the word sin offering is found.

Of 39 English language bibles, only 5 write it as sin offering. And those 5 are not translations but modern paraphrase's which are the wors versions of English bibles out there.

Dear Ronald Nolette,
You said:
The word sin there is "harmartia" which is never translated as sin offering. It means sin and sin only.

You are wrong. Here are two other places in the KJV that translate harmartia (G266) as sin offering:

Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin (G266) thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin (G266) thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

The Hebrew word for sin (H2401 hataa) used in the OT is commonly defined as "sin" or a "sin offering" just as the Greek Word harmartia can be defined as "sin" or "sin offering".

Also, there is NO second witness in scripture that says that Christ was made sin.

Two or three witnesses are required by the Law to prove anything to be true. In the case of Christ being made sin, there is no second witness. However, there are many second witnesses to the truth that Christ was made an offering for sin.

And as I pointed out in my first post, it is not possible for anyone (especially Christ who never sinned) to be made sin. It can be said that people are made to be sinful because they sin - but for a person to be made sin, it cannot happen.

If Christ were somehow made to be sin, how can His death on the cross forgive sins? Can sin forgive sins? Absolutely not!

The teaching that Christ was made sin is just another false teaching of the apostate church which cannot stand when held up to the light of God's Word.

Joe

 

[marks]

When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family, Jesus was Born Again.

No, He was resurrected. Jesus wasn't dead in the sense of being separated from God, therefore He did not need to be reborn. It's actually in Him that we are reborn. That never would have worked if Jesus needed rebirth also! Jesus, being God, did not require "being born into the family of God".

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Hi Brother,

Please can you explain how we are like the wind?

Or maybe it was a typo, did you mean that the Spirit Of God is like the wind?..per scripture.

 

[Johann]

The Hebrew word for sin (H2401 hataa) used in the OT is commonly defined as "sin" or a "sin offering" just as the Greek Word harmartia can be defined as "sin" or "sin offering".

Depending on context.

In the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible, the term "hamartia," which is Greek for "sin" or "sin offering," appears in various contexts. However, it's important to clarify that the specific phrase "a sin offering" is translated from the Hebrew word חַטָּאת (chatta'ah) in the Old Testament, rather than directly from the Greek hamartia.

In the KJV, the phrase "sin offering" occurs approximately 37 times. Here are some key references where it is explicitly mentioned:

Leviticus 4:3: "If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin which he hath sinned a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering."

Leviticus 4:14: "When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation."

Leviticus 5:6: "And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin."

Numbers 15:22: "And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses, even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;"

The term "hamartia" itself, used in the New Testament, is typically translated simply as "sin," rather than "sin offering." Notably, the Greek word appears in several passages, but it does not specifically denote the concept of a sin offering.


To summarize, while the phrase "sin offering" appears around 37 times in the KJV, it is important to distinguish that the Greek term hamartia does not specifically translate as "sin offering." Instead, hamartia generally refers to "sin" or "to sin," and does not have a direct correlation to the sacrificial offerings described in the Old Testament.

As to the rest of your post I wholly concur.

J.

 

[bro.tan]

Hi Brother,

Please can you explain how we are like the wind?

Or maybe it was a typo, did you mean that the Spirit Of God is like the wind?..per scripture.

Take a look at what Paul is saying. Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


Our bodies must be changed and this will not take place until the first or resurrection. This is why Paul makes these statements. We ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. He did say waiting correct?

Even Job was aware of this. Take a look. Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Take a look at Philippians and you will see Job and Paul are on the same page.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus paid for sin by becoming sin

How could Jesus become sin, if he was God in the flesh?

He took our sin upon himself did he not?

Can you point me to scripture where Jesus became sin? thanks Ronald.

Here, Paul says that “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Paul affirmed that Jesus had no sin of his own. Hebrews 4:15 expresses this as well, that Jesus, although tempted in every way that we are, was without sin.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our bodies must be changed and this will not take place until the first or resurrection. This is why Paul makes these statements. We ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. He did say waiting correct?

Yes, I believe you are correct @bro.tan ....do you mean the adoption of our spirit body?
I think he means we are waiting for our earthly body to die, then go back into the dust of the ground.

Then we will then have glorified spirit bodies, like Jesus has?..what do you think?