bbyrd009
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When do you "expect" Jesus to return?
- Thread starter ScottA
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Only those of opinion can disagree. I have not been discussing my opinion, but stating facts.
I didn't mean that you misunderstood me, but rather that you misunderstood what is written....nor am I "trying to use" anything. Well--maybe reason. Nor did I claim that "all these things" was in Revelation--that part you did misunderstand me on.
I know you believe what you believe and don't want to hear anything to the contrary, but it is a biblical fact that what was and is taught and believed has been corrupted and foretold as a "lie" causing "strong delusion." And Jesus even prefaced that with the fact that He is not coming as you "expect." And your expectations are quite clear.
But if you don't want to hear the warning--fine, I am still charged with giving it, and I have, and now it's on you.
It is not what I believe, but what is written:
- Jesus said He was not going to come when "expected" (and we know what the different expectations are--and therefore they are wrong).
- Peter warned and foretold of "false teachers" entering into the church and corrupting of doctrine. This is a fact.
- Paul further warned that many would "believe a lie" and even prefer it, leading to "strong delusion". That too is a fact.
- Meanwhile, Jesus also actually gave the time of His coming/return--which He did not name as being specific, but saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."
- Paul then elaborated and filled in the detail that should have dispelled the "lie" and the current "delusion", saying Jesus would come "but each one in his own order."
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
God's Word is fact Scott, what comes out of yours or my mouth is opinion sir which may or may not be true.
DarylFawcett
New Member
How did you come to the conclusion that the last days began in 1914?
What Bible reference/s can you provide to come to that conclusion?
Orthodoxy is suspect, for believing and teaching what they "expect", against the warnings given by Christ, Peter, and Paul.
That is not biblical.
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
What I expect is that Jesus Christ never lied about what the Apostles who were asking about the end of the age was going to come about on the mount of olives, sitting just opposite of the temple.
The Order of Resurrection
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.”b Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
I believe resurrection started after the stoning of Stephen and the devil was bound for a period of time before his release in which he was cast out of heaven due to the death of Christ and was bound for a short time before coming back and roaring around like a lion.
Eventually the end of the age would come, with Jesus Christ coming back to save those who were part of the elect the first fruits at his coming, but that doesn't mean that after Jesus had returned and took his bride there would not be more to resurrected afterwards.
Today people die and are resurrected, and that is the premise for today... that the devil is done away with, and put in the lake of fire and there is no more devil running around today. There is no more accuser if the Law was nailed the the cross of Christ. People pass away and are resurrected and there are two places which God had set up, those outside, and those inside the Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem.
The Order of Resurrection
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.”b Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
I believe resurrection started after the stoning of Stephen and the devil was bound for a period of time before his release in which he was cast out of heaven due to the death of Christ and was bound for a short time before coming back and roaring around like a lion.
Eventually the end of the age would come, with Jesus Christ coming back to save those who were part of the elect the first fruits at his coming, but that doesn't mean that after Jesus had returned and took his bride there would not be more to resurrected afterwards.
Today people die and are resurrected, and that is the premise for today... that the devil is done away with, and put in the lake of fire and there is no more devil running around today. There is no more accuser if the Law was nailed the the cross of Christ. People pass away and are resurrected and there are two places which God had set up, those outside, and those inside the Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem.
These messages have a premise for reward however they were first written to the literal churches of Asia Minor.
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b] of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victoriousand sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
There is so much to the Bible it is hard to condense it down without trying to travel the traverse trails of looking and seeing all these things, does Christ knock at the door still today for people? Sure.
These things Jesus is said to say, are much more harsher than the Gospel itself. Some question the vailidity of it.
Revelation 3
New International Version
To the Church in Sardis
3 “To the angel[a] of the church in Sardis write:These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b] of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victoriousand sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
There is so much to the Bible it is hard to condense it down without trying to travel the traverse trails of looking and seeing all these things, does Christ knock at the door still today for people? Sure.
These things Jesus is said to say, are much more harsher than the Gospel itself. Some question the vailidity of it.
IF you believe that the Church bride is still on earth then you need to go by every single tenant the Bible lays forth
You will have to be a part of the a church that is without any blemish, spotless, and without wrinkle.
Ephesians 5
5 1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Instructions for Christian Households
You will have to be a part of the a church that is without any blemish, spotless, and without wrinkle.
Ephesians 5
New International Version
5 1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Instructions for Christian Households
21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Get your act together if this is the case. Because Jesus is still going to come and take his bride if he did not in the past.
Good luck,
and God bless.
PS: This is why I believe Jesus Christ did come and take his bride, which was warned through the Revelation of Jesus Christ saying "I come quickly", this was not BS. The Church in that day in age was governed by apostolic authority... there are no more apostles today that was trained directly by the resurrected Christ.
PSS: Christians today have it so much easier, than that first bride who was under the attack by the devil, and sheol had not yet been taken care of and the like... but now due to Jesus and his victory all enemies have been put beneath Jesus feet. Unless you do not believe he has yet.
PSSS: That choice is totally up to you I choose to believe differently than most of the christian culture, because its freeing to be in the freedom of Christ and his victory over all things.
Good luck,
and God bless.
PS: This is why I believe Jesus Christ did come and take his bride, which was warned through the Revelation of Jesus Christ saying "I come quickly", this was not BS. The Church in that day in age was governed by apostolic authority... there are no more apostles today that was trained directly by the resurrected Christ.
PSS: Christians today have it so much easier, than that first bride who was under the attack by the devil, and sheol had not yet been taken care of and the like... but now due to Jesus and his victory all enemies have been put beneath Jesus feet. Unless you do not believe he has yet.
PSSS: That choice is totally up to you I choose to believe differently than most of the christian culture, because its freeing to be in the freedom of Christ and his victory over all things.
Last edited:
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Hi Daryl, nice to meet you, will be glad to. Here is a paper I did on it in 2010, I read through it, and believe it might help you to understand it, if not, please let me know and I will see if I can do a better job.
APPOINTED TIMES OF THE NATIONS
Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.
God had various faithful people of old, but he made a covenant with Abraham. Abraham’s grandson was Jacob, of which Jehovah changed his name to Israel. Genesis 32:27-28 What is your name? to which he said: Jacob. 28 Then he said: Your name will no longer be called Jacob but Israel, for you have contended with God and with men so that you at last prevailed. His descendants eventually multiplied into becoming the nation of Israel. Israel became God’s nation on earth. These were the people He recognized as His.
After Moses died, Joshua led the Israelites into the promised land. A series of Judges were set up to guide the people, ending with Samuel. The Israelites were constantly falling in and out of favor with God. Jehovah, being very patient with these people, next set up a series of Kings.
1 Samuel 8:4-7 4 In time all the older men of Israel collected themselves together and came to Samuel at Ra'mah 5 and said to him: Look! You yourself have grown old, but your own sons have not walked in your ways. Now do appoint for us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing was bad in the eyes of Samuel inasmuch as they had said: Do give us a king to judge us, and Samuel began to pray to Jehovah. 7 Then Jehovah said to Samuel: Listen to the voice of the people as respects all that they say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected from being king over them
Still, however, the nation of Israel was in and out of faithfulness with God. They really rejected God as being their Supreme Ruler. So in time Jehovah allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy them ushering in the appointed times of the nations. According to the Bible account in Daniel chapter four, the heaven-high tree was cut down. However, the stump was left, and bands of iron and of copper were put on it. This would keep the stump from growing until it was God’s time to remove the bands and let it start growing again. But how and when was God’s rulership cut down?
In due course, the kingdom of Judah that Jehovah had set up became so corrupt that he allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy it, to cut it down. This happened in the year 607 B.C.E. At that time Zedekiah, the last king of Judah to sit on Jehovah’s throne, was told: Lift off the crown. . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him. Ezekiel 21:25-27.
So God’s rulership, as represented by the tree, was cut down in 607 B.C.E. No longer was there a government to represent God’s rulership in the earth. Thus, in 607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as “the appointed times of the nations,” or, the times of the Gentiles. (Luke 21:24; K JV) During these appointed times God did not have a government to represent his rulership in the earth.
What was to happen at the end of these appointed times of the nations? Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the One who has the legal right. This One is Jesus Christ. So if we can find out when the appointed times of the nations end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as king.
According to Daniel chapter four, these appointed times would be seven times. Daniel shows that there would be seven times during which God’s rulership, as represented by the tree, would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel 4:16, 23) How long are these seven times?
In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time. That is a total of 3 1/2 times. So “a time” would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, seven times would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to a Bible rule, the seven times equal 2,520 years. Num 14:34; Ez 4:6.
We have already learned that the appointed times of the nations began in the year 607 B.C.E. So by counting 2,520 years from that date, we come down to 1914 C.E. That is the year these appointed times ended. Millions of people still living remember the things that happened in 1914. In that year, World War I began Thus fulfilling “Nation would rise against Nation” the beginning of the sign Jesus gave his apostles Mat 24:7. This means that Jesus Christ began to rule as king of God’s heavenly government in 1914. And because the Kingdom has already started its rule, how timely it is that we pray for it to come and wipe Satan’s wicked system of things from the earth! Matthew 6:10; Daniel 2:44.
Of What Meaning Is This to Us?
Jehovah has always exercised his universal sovereignty as he sees fit. For a time he did this on earth through the nation of Israel, whose earthly rulers were properly said to sit upon Jehovah’s throne. (1 Chronicles 29:23) When Israel turned apostate, however, Jehovah allowed its dynasty of kings in the descendants of King David to be overthrown. How appropriate, then, that shortly thereafter God would give some indication to King Nebuchadnezzar the very one permitted to destroy His typical kingdom that this in no way meant that God’s rightful sovereignty had come to an end. How important to impress upon him and upon all the Gentile nations that would afterward trample upon God’s representative kingdom that this state of affairs was only temporary!
Thus, the point of time when the dream was given, the person to whom it was given, and the theme of divine sovereignty that it stressed, argue for a significance far beyond the meaning it had for Nebuchadnezzar. They suggest that like a cut-down tree with bands, divine rulership as had been expressed in Jerusalem, now destroyed, would not be restored until those bands of restraint were removed after seven times. At that time, God’s representative Ruler, the lowliest one of mankind, a reference to the promised Messiah, would be set up in his Kingdom. As to when God would do this, Jesus’ disciples requested a sign. Daniel 4:17; Matthew 24:3.
There are also other indications showing this far-reaching application of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream to be correct. The prophecy recorded at Daniel 9:24-27 pinpointed the exact year of Messiah’s arrival over 500 years later. Now if the time of Messiah’s coming as a human was foretold with such precision, is it not reasonable to conclude that the time of his more significant invisible return in Kingdom power would be foretold with equal precision? Who could more appropriately do this than Daniel? Remember, too, that after recording his visions and dream prophecies, including Nebuchadnezzar’s dream about the tree, Daniel was told: Make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Why until then? Because during that time true knowledge will become abundant. If what Daniel wrote was to remain sealed, not understandable, until the time of the end, would that not indicate that his writings would be of prophetic importance during that period? Daniel 12:4.
How Late Is the Hour?
Evidence that Jesus’ sign is now undergoing fulfillment is as easily available as is newspaper or television news. And it offers conclusive proof that the chronological evidence in support of 1914 as revealed in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream is correct. So today, in 2010, this means that we are already 96 years into the time of the end. Jesus promised that some members of the generation of people old enough to be alive at its beginning would still be alive when the great tribulation brought it to its completion. Matthew 24:34.
Thanks for asking me to explain sir. (apologies if you are a maam)
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Just simply fact sir. If you quote the Bible as you quoted 2 Pet 1:21, that is fact, but if you add words from your mouth to it, it becomes opinion, just simple truth Scott.
The Kingdom of God is already here
Luke 17
20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23
And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
You can choose to make this world a heaven on Earth right now, or you can say "lo here! lo there!" in vain all your life.
Luke 17
20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23
And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
You can choose to make this world a heaven on Earth right now, or you can say "lo here! lo there!" in vain all your life.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
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