BreadOfLife
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- Jan 2, 2017
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Wrong.OzSpen said:Are you so blind that you cannot see that 'all Scripture' that comes with the authority of being breathed out by the perfect Lord God who has absolute, sovereign authority of the universe has less authority than the early church fathers and popes?
N T Wright wrote an article, 'How Can the Bible Be Authoritative?' In his conclusion, Wright wrote an excellent summary of scriptural authority:
I have argued that the notion of the ‘authority of scripture’ is a shorthand expression for God’s authority, exercised somehow through scripture; that scripture must be allowed to be itself in exercising its authority, and not be turned into something else which might fit better into what the church, or the world, might have thought its ‘authority’ should look like; that it is therefore the meaning of ‘authority’ itself, not that of scripture, that is the unknown in the equation, and that when this unknown is discovered it challenges head on the various notions and practices of authority endemic in the world and, alas, in the church also.
Seems to me that your push for the authority of the church violates God's authority that is exercised through Scripture.
Oz
First of all - I didn't say that the bible wasn't Authoritative. It absolutely IS.
What I said, if you had been paying attention - is that the Bible explicitly states that the Church is our final Authority on earth and NOT the Bible. It never makes that claim for itself. Like it or not - that is a fact.
And it's not "MY" push for the Church's Authority - it's GOD'S.
As a teacher of Scripture - you should know this basic hermeutical rule:
When Jesus taught the crowds, He was speaking to ALL of us.
When Jesus instructed His apostles - He was instructing the leaders of His Church.
Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matt. 18:15-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to me. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent me."
John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide YOU to ALL TRUTH. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told YOU that he will take from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
John 20:21-22
'Peace be with you. 'As the Father sent me, so am I sending YOU.' After saying this he breathed on them and said: Receive the Holy Spirit.
If YOU forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven; if YOU retain anyone's sins, they are retained.