What triggers Armageddon ?

[TribulationSigns]

No, he is but one man known by many names but in Rev called a beast and false prophet.

Good luck. Let me know when you find out who he is like many false prophets speculated before you.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Let me know when you find out who he is

That wouldn't be smart. People get killed for less.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Does not apply to the Book of Revelation.

prove it.

Show me and explain it yourself to see if you know what God actually talked about.

I did go back and read it.

Indeed, God declared that "horns" represent kings. However, the horns in Scripture are a symbol representing power.

Well I will take wht god told Daniel through the angel at face value:

Daniel 7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

How's that for Biblical hermeneutics, Ronald??

Fail! I give you the props for knowing that when horns are used symbolically and undefined they refer to strength and power. but when defined as in Daniel we must let the biblical definition stand! the ten horns as the bible explicitly says are ten kings who arise out of a kingdom that devours the whole earth!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Really? For example:
Rev 9:14-15
(14) Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
(15) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Do you even understand what this river signifies where the four angels were bound? Literal, you say? Can a physical river hold the spirits?
Think again. How about this?

Well your lack of understanding the english language is your problem. It DOES NOT say the river holds the spirits, but it does say the spirits are bound in the river to be released from their bounds at a certain time. euphrates simply speaks of the geographic location where they are bound.

C'mon man that is third grade grammar.

Rev 16:3-4
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
(4) And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Do you think God was talking about the pacific ocean as a sea to turn into the blood of men? How do you understand what the rivers, and foundations of waters represents when they become blood? What does the blood signifies? Let hear this from you, Mr. Literal Interpreater.

Once again you fail because this time you are a careless reader.

the passage does not say the oceans became blood, but they became AS blood. JOhn is using a comparative term to describe what he sees.
In modern days we have a toxic algae that is called a red bloom. for one who has never learned the difference, they could easily say the waters look like blood. See that is keepin with a literal hermeneutic.

 

[TribulationSigns]

prove it.

I just proved you wrong that you can't have a Godzilla in Revelation 13 coming out of the Mediterranean Sea to replace three human kings, or a woman floating above the moon and with sun for clothing and stars for crown to mean literal. You need to show us how do you understand Revelation 12 and 13 with your literalism nonsenses. You are trying to have a salad bar, choosing one verse to mean spiritual fulfillment and the next verse to mean literal fulfillment.

I did go back and read it.

All I see was misapplying of Scirpture.

Well I will take wht god told Daniel through the angel at face value:

Face value of a single verse? Every heard of comparing Scripture with Scirpture?

Daniel 7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

No. Ten horns means fullness of power that the kingdom (ten kings) shall arise. Not ten men - kings arise. And the another king is the little horn means Satan will have full of power for a short season. Subdue three kings means it is God's will and purpose to allow Satan to have power out of this kingdom for a short season. Read carefully:

Rev 17:9-13
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
(11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
(12) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(13) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The beast is Satan, he is the EIGHTH but is OF THE SEVEN. And the kings (false prophets and christs of the congregation) will give their power, their kingdom (church) and strength to the Beast... And God allows this:

Rev 17:16-17
(16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
(17) For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

This is how the beast subdue three kings in Daniel 7:24 referred to. The number three signifies will and purpose of God. This is where God has agreed and allowed the beast to have His kingdom with fullness of power for a short time (little horn). Nothing to do with your one man antichrist fantasy or anything like that. Spiritual discernment and comparing Scirptue with Scirpture. Don't like it? The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that.

I give you the props for knowing that when horns are used symbolically and undefined they refer to strength and power. but when defined as in Daniel we must let the biblical definition stand! the ten horns as the bible explicitly says are ten kings who arise out of a kingdom that devours the whole earth!

It is because you fail to understand what the kings refers to. Do you think God is talking about ten men in ten countries and they are literally kings? Think again.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well your lack of understanding the english language is your problem. It DOES NOT say the river holds the spirits, but it does say the spirits are bound in the river to be released from their bounds at a certain time. euphrates simply speaks of the geographic location where they are bound.

No, you don't get it. I was just mocking your literal understanding on how will a physical river hold spiritual angels. Nothing to do with understanding English, silly! It is spiritual discernment that you lack!

So, now can you explain what the River Euphrates in Revelation 9:14 and 16:12 and what it refers to. If you think it is a physical water in the Middle East, then explain how did bound the spiritual angels there. Stop stonewalling and answer the question honestly.

C'mon man that is third grade grammar.

LOL!!!!! So your interpretation in Revelation 9:14 is that four spiritual angels were bound "IN" the physical river Euphrates? FOr what purpose? Do you know? You fail to understand what "THIS" river euphrates signifies. It is NOT about H20 water. It is a spiritual wall between God's people whom He seals and the enemies. Didn't you even bother to read about four angels here?

Rev 7:1-4
(1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
(2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
(3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is the SAME four angels! They have power to harm people without the seal of God but only at the appointed time after Christ has secured all of His Elect first. Then the angels can be loosened to bring judgment upon unfaithful church.

Once again you fail because this time you are a careless reader.

Like I said, the Lord judges and I am comfortable with that. I would say that you can't understand God's Word even if we read the same verse.. in English. Literalism v.s. Spiritual Discernment.

the passage does not say the oceans became blood, but they became AS blood.

Read again:

Rev 16:3-4
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
(4) And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

You are not dealing with the Scripture honestly. While the sea became "AS" blood of a dead man and EVERY living soul died in the SEA. Do you understand what the Lord is talking about here? Why would water become like dead man blood that caused every living soul to die. What sea is this? Plus God did say that the river and foundations of waters became blood... not "as" the blood. Come on, do better and deal with Scripture honestly and find out how God see things. What did God talk about here really. Will there be literal blood in the water to fulfill it to satisfy your absurd literalism interpretation? Or, did God define elsewhere in Scripture that the living water as Gospel and the blood that pollutes it makes it useless to drink so that no one can get saved as a judgment? Rememebr bloodied water in Egypt? Well IN Revelation we have CHURCH as SPIRITUAL Egypt and the water is spiritually gospel that supported her.. and the blood is... can you guess what it spiritually means? Show me the Scripture if you know how.

JOhn is using a comparative term to describe what he sees.

Quite foolish to think that way.

In modern days we have a toxic algae that is called a red bloom.

Sigh...

for one who has never learned the difference, they could easily say the waters look like blood. See that is keepin with a literal hermeneutic.

So your literal hermeneutic is there must be some red bloom in the water all over the sea, river, lakes, etc. all fishes dies in the sea? What does fishes have to do anything with Gospel or Kingdom of God?

Think again... every wondered what the fishes often symbolical to? Christians? Aren't we supposed to be fisher of men? Collecting fishes from the sea? So the blood in the water is a judgment upon professed Christians in the sea that they will not live. Again, do you know what blood signifies that can harm the souls of the living? Nothing to do with marine life. Think!

 

[Timtofly]

:)

Anyone who does not provide passages in the books of the prophets or in the Revelation that says that the battle will be fought at Tel Megiddo isn't getting his ideas from scripture.

@ewq1938 .. and I didn't say the battle is symbolic. I said the name given to it - Armageddon - is symbolic :)​

The verse says the mountain of Megiddo:

"And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

John is not using Greek. John is using Hebrew, and the translators formed an English word out of the Hebrew. Why would it be a known location? It was already a forgotten ancient place known by the kingdom of Israel in the 2nd millennium BC.

The English name has no meaning whatsoever so is not even symbolic of anything other than a literal place that used to exist in the OT. John did not name this place any other mountain known in Israel today, but the one called Megiddo.

Modern rhetoric has turned Armageddon into a imaginary situation that has several connotations. Why is that? Because it is given in Scripture as the final battle between God and Satan. Between saints and sinners. That is why the term Armageddon has taken on more than it should today. But John was not telling us to make a big deal over it, nor even symbolize it into spiritual nonsense. It is simply a location on a map.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, you don't get it. I was just mocking your literal understanding on how will a physical river hold spiritual angels. Nothing to do with understanding English, silly! It is spiritual discernment that you lack!

So, now can you explain what the River Euphrates in Revelation 9:14 and 16:12 and what it refers to. If you think it is a physical water in the Middle East, then explain how did bound the spiritual angels there. Stop stonewalling and answer the question honestly.

Well as you are not my god and cannot read my mind or soul- I will take your comments for what they are worth. 0

It is the euphrates River. why must you make it different! And it even explains why- to let the kings of the east cross

LOL!!!!! So your interpretation in Revelation 9:14 is that four spiritual angels were bound "IN" the physical river Euphrates? FOr what purpose? Do you know? You fail to understand what "THIS" river euphrates signifies. It is NOT about H20 water. It is a spiritual wall between God's people whom He seals and the enemies. Didn't you even bother to read about four angels here?

Well I take what god word says and not your reintpretation:

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Now as to what the horse men are and their dress, I can only speculate and I won't for you do enough of that for teh both of us!

You are not dealing with the Scripture honestly. While the sea became "AS" blood of a dead man and EVERY living soul died in the SEA. Do you understand what the Lord is talking about here? Why would water become like dead man blood that caused every living soul to die. What sea is this? Plus God did say that the river and foundations of waters became blood... not "as" the blood. Come on, do better and deal with Scripture honestly and find out how God see things. What did God talk about here really. Will there be literal blood in the water to fulfill it to satisfy your absurd literalism interpretation? Or, did God define elsewhere in Scripture that the living water as Gospel and the blood that pollutes it makes it useless to drink so that no one can get saved as a judgment? Rememebr bloodied water in Egypt? Well IN Revelation we have CHURCH as SPIRITUAL Egypt and the water is spiritually gospel that supported her.. and the blood is... can you guess what it spiritually means? Show me the Scripture if you know how.

I do deal with Scripture honestly, just not in your opiunion. Who died and left you in charge of determining who is and is not dealing with Scripture honestly.

Do you think that teh waters in Egypt became as blood or do you think it didn't really happen and was written merely as a metaphor like you are trying to do with this passage.