What Need I of Grace?

[CharismaticLady]

Never said it was permission to sin, but you are disagreeing with Paul, not me. We all sin, BTW, especially those who think they don't.

Yes, no one is born without sin. THAT is what both Paul says, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." And John in 1 John 1:8 and 10. None of those are Christians. That is why Jesus came and died for us. Not to free us from the law and punishment, but to free us from SIN that required the law to show us sin. So what law are we under. Hint, its in Romans and frees from the Mosaic law. What is different in the New Covenant from the Old Covenant making it better?

 

[Renniks]

Yes, no one is born without sin. THAT is what both Paul says, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." And John in 1 John 1:8 and 10. None of those are Christians. That is why Jesus came and died for us. Not to free us from the law and punishment, but to free us from SIN that required the law to show us sin. So what law are we under. Hint, its in Romans and frees from the Mosaic law. What is different in the New Covenant from the Old Covenant making it better?

We are under grace, as I just quoted.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are under grace, as I just quoted.

Grace according to your definition is a license to sin. Jude 1:4. True grace is the Power of God given to us through the infilling of His Spirit to empower us to walk in righteousness. 2 Peter 1

That false definition of grace of yours by demons has been taught by Gnostics for centuries.

 

[HARK!]

If we knowingly commit sin, we should of course, repent.

(CLV) 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

The question here is whether that sin condemns us to hell.

You might want to read the title of this thread one more time.

We are not saved by not sinning.

" 4 He who is saying that "I know Him and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one."

If we are relying on being sinless for our salvation, we are still under the law

UNDER THE LAW!

Romans 6:14 says "sin is no longer your master because you no longer live under the requirements of the law.

You should probably throw out that mistranslation. It would probably help your understanding.

(CLV) Ro 6:14
For Sin shall not be lording it over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

Paul goes on to encourage us to offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

we have been released from the law

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[Renniks]

Grace according to your definition is a license to sin. Jude 1:4. True grace is the Power of God given to us through the infilling of His Spirit to empower us to walk in righteousness. 2 Peter 1

That false definition of grace of yours by demons has been taught by Gnostics for centuries.

I'm not a gnostic and I never said you have liscence to sin. Please quit putting words in my mouth.
You are not sinless, so get over yourself.

 

[Renniks]

Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

You don't obey the law, so quit pretending.

 

[HARK!]

You don't obey the law, so quit pretending.

You should try it. It's not that difficult; and it can be fun too.

 

[justbyfaith]

It doesn't stand to textual criticism....bottom line.

Not the bottom line.

It is a trustworthy translation... and this is the bottom line.

It is the word of God, inspired and inerrant. The burden of proof is on you to show otherwise.

Yes, no one is born without sin. THAT is what both Paul says, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." And John in 1 John 1:8 and 10. None of those are Christians. That is why Jesus came and died for us. Not to free us from the law and punishment, but to free us from SIN that required the law to show us sin. So what law are we under. Hint, its in Romans and frees from the Mosaic law. What is different in the New Covenant from the Old Covenant making it better?

See Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6; Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, and Hebrews 7:18-19.

We are not saved by not sinning. We are saved by Christ's blood.

" 4 He who is saying that "I know Him and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one."

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Rom 3:28, Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

You don't obey the law, so quit pretending.

Amen. Even those who are sticklers for the law do not keep it, Galatians 6:13.

You should try it. It's not that difficult; and it can be fun too.

You don't keep it perfectly, friend.

See Galatians 6:13.

Also Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48.

 

[Renniks]

You should try it. It's not that difficult; and it can be fun too.

I don't need to. I'm not Jewish, and I'm not under the law.
"
For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God."

 

[HARK!]

It is a trustworthy translation... and this is the bottom line.

It is the word of God, inspired and inerrant. The burden of proof is on you to show otherwise.

You have much to learn about the burden of proof.

The Textus Receptus doesn't conform to the Majority Text, nor to the earliest known manuscripts.

On what basis can you make the assertion that it is inerrant? Don't tell me, "because my boy King James said so." King James isn't YHWH." Although if he had lived long enough; I would put it past him you rename YHWH after himself too.

 

[HARK!]

I don't need to. I'm not Jewish, and I'm not under the law.

You not under the law if you're not breaking the law.

Do you feel that you are above the law?

 

[justbyfaith]

You not under the law if you're not breaking the law.

Do you feel that you are above the law?

Believers are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6). (see also Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19).

That we are not under the law does not necessarily mean that sin has no dominion over us (present tense). it does mean that it shall not have dominion over us (in the future). See Romans 6:14 (kjv).

 

[justbyfaith]

You have much to learn about the burden of proof.

The Textus Receptus doesn't conform to the Majority Text, nor to the earliest known manuscripts.

On what basis can you make the assertion that it is inerrant? Don't tell me, "because my boy King James said so." King James isn't YHWH." Although if he had lived long enough; I would put it past him you rename YHWH after himself too.

Because of the sovereignty, love, and Omnipotence of God, there has to be at least one translation that has the unadulterated message of the gospel.

Since it has been contended that the kjv is that translation; and since no other translation has had this controversy established around it, I conclude that the kjv is the translation that the Lord has preserved for us in English.

Also, if we must look to the Greek and Hebrew texts in order to get the unadulterated message of the gospel, it would follow that the educated scribes and Pharisees (the Hebrew and Greek scholars) would have a monopoly on knowing that unadulterated message; and the common people would have to rely on them in order to get that message.

However, it was the educated scribes and Pharisees who rejected Jesus; but the common people received Him gladly.

Do you think that God would make those who are receptive to His word dependent upon those who reject the message of His word, to be able to know the unadulterated message of His word?

I don't think so.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not a gnostic and I never said you have liscence to sin. Please quit putting words in my mouth.
You are not sinless, so get over yourself.

I better be if I believe Jesus! You saying I am not sinless, is actually saying that you aren't even if you are. It is called fear of telling the truth, because you believe 1 John 1:8 is about born again, Spirit-filled Christians. You don't want to be called a liar, so you hide your righteousness under a barrel. Don't you know the truth will set you free? Actually study what Jesus is saying here in John 8:32-36.

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
...
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Brother you are free. Stop believing the lies from the Reformation. Jesus said of them, "you have a reputation that you are alive, but you are dead." Why? Because it is a Defeatist theology. We have Victory in Jesus. Stop thinking you are a slave to sin and always will be while in your body of flesh. Sound familiar? Study 1 John 3 that completely contradicts 1 John 1:8. Why? Because 1 John 1:7 is what he says of a true Christian. 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are unsaved because they do not have the Holy Spirit in them, the Spirit of Truth. They have no Truth in them.

The only way to have the Spirit is REPENT, which is 1 John 1:9. That is why John the Baptist came FIRST. To make the way clear for the Messiah.

 

[CharismaticLady]

See Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6; Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, and Hebrews 7:18-19.

Romans 7:13; Romans 8:1-9; 1 John 3:1-24; Hebrews 10:26-31.

Romans 8:1-9 shows the reason we are not under the Mosaic Law. It is because of the law of the Spirit written on our hearts. NOT THAT WE ARE NOW LAWLESS BECAUSE OF A MISINTERPRETATION OF GOD'S GRACE. No! Romans 3:31! We establish the law! BTW, grace is divine power. 2 Peter 1:2-4

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 7:13; Romans 8:1-9; 1 John 3:1-24; Hebrews 10:26-31.

Romans 8:1-9 shows the reason we are not under the Mosaic Law. It is because of the law of the Spirit written on our hearts. NOT THAT WE ARE NOW LAWLESS BECAUSE OF A MISINTERPRETATION OF GOD'S GRACE. No! Romans 3:31! We establish the law!

We are no longer bound by the letter of the law but are obedient to the spirit of it (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are no longer bound by the letter of the law but are obedient to the spirit of it (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

Yes, and while we are walking in the Spirit we are sinless - 1 John 3:21-24. How can we not? Sinlessness is not perfection. Perfection comes from 2 Peter 1:5-11. This is what we should be teaching. Victory through Christ - TODAY. Please stand with me and share the Truth. John 10:10

 

[justbyfaith]

I hold that we are perfect (Hebrews 10:14) but not sinless (1 John 1:8). Notice that in the latter verse, John includes himself among those who are not without sin, using the word "we". (Is John an unregenerated, unbeliever?)

This is not to say that we are bound to commit sin in the future, or that sinning is inevitable. The one who is born of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9); because the element of sin is rendered dead within him (Romans 7:8, Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24); so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour. It is not that it is eradicated from his system; but that it is *as good as* eradicated (Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11, 1 John 1:8).

 

[justbyfaith]

NOT THAT WE ARE NOW LAWLESS BECAUSE OF A MISINTERPRETATION OF GOD'S GRACE.

We are no longer under the law of the Old Testament (Romans 6:14); but this is not lawlessness: because we are ruled by the law of faith (Romans 3:27).

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2).

Sin worked through the law of the Old Testament to bring about all manner of concupiscence (Romans 7:5,8 (kjv)).

Rom 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

The only way to deal with this problem is to be delivered from the law (Romans 7:6 (kjv)).

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[Renniks]

You not under the law if you're not breaking the law.

Do you feel that you are above the law?

How can I break a law that I'm not subject to?