What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Grailhunter]

You would think so. I think the bold wouldn't be so bad with shorter paragraphs. I even have problems with regular text in long paragraphs. I just get lost.

I had no idea....looks good from this side. Thanks you know I had no intent to make it hard to read.

 

[amadeus]

GH,
PW is right about the wall of BOLDED text. Could you knock it off? It makes it hard for me to read, too.

@Grailhunter That goes for me as well. I read fewer and fewer posts on the forum these days overall.

Many of yours I have not even skimmed because of the relatively small bold font with little or no spacing between sentences/lines/paragraphs. This is a shame for some of your posts which I have read contained some good things.

Think about the eyes and concentration ability of an old man.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Bet you just love Emerson and Thoreau. LOL
A sentence often claimed to be the longest sentence ever written is in Molly Bloom's soliloquy in the James Joyce novel Ulysses (1922), which contains a "sentence" of 3,687 words

That's a looooong sentence!

Paul had some pretty long sentences in his epistles. One time a pastor asked me if one of Paul's sentences was grammatically correct, so I checked it out, and it was correct.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter That goes for me as well. I read fewer and fewer posts on the forum these days overall.

Many of yours I have not even skimmed because of the relatively small bold font with little or no spacing between sentences/lines/paragraphs. This is a shame for some of your posts which I have read contained some good things.

Think about the eyes and concentration ability of an old man.

Point well taken. Should I enlarge the text like you guys? Whatever is easier to read.

 

[Willie T]

Point well taken. Should I enlarge the text like you guys? Whatever is easier to read.

Don't bother with the enlarging. It is a triple pain in the butt to have to do that for every post since this forum doesn't allow that being done as a default. Most of us with vision problems already have our own computers set to 150 or 175 ZOOM.

 

[Grailhunter]

Don't bother with the enlarging. It is a triple pain in the butt to have to do that for every post since this forum doesn't allow that being done as a default.

I get that too

 

[amadeus]

Point well taken. Should I enlarge the text like you guys? Whatever is easier to read.

The font in your post is fine. I always try to use size '6' with New Times Roman, but how it reads also depends on how the other person has his computer set. I really do not expect everyone to conform to what is best for me. Their are other people and other reasons for what they do or don't do.

Spacing is always a problem. You don't have to correctly paragraph according to some English book. Simply skip a space every few lines so it is not one solid mass where we lose track of which line we are reading. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Grailhunter]

The font in your post is fine. I always try to use size '6' with New Times Roman, but how it reads also depends on how the other person has his computer set. I really do not expect everyone to conform to what is best for me. Their are other people and other reasons for what they do or don't do.

Spacing is always a problem. You don't have to correctly paragraph according to some English book. Simply skip a space every few lines so it is not one solid mass where we lose track of which line we are reading. Thanks for understanding.

Thanks for the heads up everyone. 27 inch monitor, I wonder why it looked fine to me. lol I am a walking speech, so my posts are a little lengthy, depending on the subject matter. Help me along...

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Thanks for the heads up everyone. 27 inch monitor, I wonder why it looked fine to me. lol I am a walking speech, so my posts are a little lengthy, depending on the subject matter. Help me along...

One thing I recommend is using paragraphs that are no longer than a few lines each. This is how the online news media does it these days, so people are used to this. So, this would mean a few sentences in each paragraph. I don't recommend one-line paragraphs, though.

And make sure that each paragraph has a good topic sentence...... Just kidding, LOL.

 

[Grailhunter]

One thing I recommend is using paragraphs that are no longer than a few lines each. This is how the online news media does it these days, so people are used to this. So, this would mean a few sentences in each paragraph. I don't recommend one-line paragraphs, though.

And make sure that each paragraph has a good topic sentence...... Just kidding, LOL.

lol belly roll! So am I suppose to rewrite my 1900 page book? Believe it or not I have had it proof read by an English major. His biggest problem is that I have my own form of grammar. My argument was that perfect grammar is boring. You have my permission to disagree. You know really good English majors have a tendency to correct people when they talk. lol I bet you never do that! lol

 

[amadeus]

lol belly roll! So am I suppose to rewrite my 1900 page book? Believe it or not I have had it proof read by an English major. His biggest problem is that I have my own form of grammar. My argument was that perfect grammar is boring. You have my permission to disagree. You know really good English majors have a tendency to correct people when they talk. lol I bet you never do that! lol

The main thing is that you communicate. If people cannot read easily with understanding what you write, what is the point?

 

[Enoch111]

By this logic: if I want to know about Christianity, I should ask an ex-Christian whom has embraced Islam "what do Christians really believe?"

Since Bible Christianity is not a cult, that logic would not apply. By the same token, Christians have a responsibility to also go directly to the sources of false teachings and see for themselves if criticisms are valid.

Just as Christians can go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and see first-hand all their false doctrines, we can go to all the official sources of the Mormon Church and see for ourselves whether their doctrines are biblical or not. Here is short a list of books which are authoritative for Mormons:

1. Articles of Faith by James E. Talmage
"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are:—(1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; (2) Repentance; (3) Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; (4) Laying on of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost."
NOTE: Christians would not agree with the last two items as being conditions for salvation.

2. Discourses of Brigham Young edited by John A. Widstoe

3. Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Fielding Smith

4. The Doctrine and Covenants
"The Doctrine and Covenants is one of four books of scripture used in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the other three are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of Great Price)".
NOTE: Christians regard only the Holy Bible as Scripture.

5. The Book of Mormon

6. The Pearl of Great Price

7. The Book of Moses

8. The Book of Abraham

 

[aspen]

Actually Christianity is a Jewish cult

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Since Bible Christianity is not a cult, that logic would not apply.

Enoch111, if you want to advocate that the best way to learn about a faith is to include ex-axe-grinders, then you need to be consistent about that logic-- willing to apply it to your own specific faith, as well as others. To do otherwise is to be a hypocritical.

I advocate that the best way to learn what anyone believes is to sit down, ask them. and listen. I hold this true of your specific faith, mine, and everyone else's.

Here is short a list of books which are authoritative for Mormons:

1. Articles of Faith by James E. Talmage
"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are:—(1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; (2) Repentance; (3) Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; (4) Laying on of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost."
NOTE: Christians would not agree with the last two items as being conditions for salvation.

2. Discourses of Brigham Young edited by John A. Widstoe

3. Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Fielding Smith

4. The Doctrine and Covenants
"The Doctrine and Covenants is one of four books of scripture used in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the other three are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of Great Price)".
NOTE: Christians regard only the Holy Bible as Scripture.

5. The Book of Mormon

6. The Pearl of Great Price

7. The Book of Moses

8. The Book of Abraham

This list is partially accurate.

Sources LDS Christians consider authoritative: The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Convents, and Pearl of Great Price. These are believed to be scripture. Theo Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham are books within the Pearl of Great Price (just like the Bible has it's sub-books).

Talmages's "Articles of Faith" and the "Doctrines of Salvation" books are not authoritative. Their place is essential wise commentary.

"The Journal of Discourses" is not remotely considered authoritative, and actually has some problems with it. It is not even ever read by a typical LDS person.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Many on here do not agree with sola scriptura but, this is always going to be my go to, always. We need order and the Word provides it. Looking at all these other beliefs can make us very confused and led down the wrong path. I will not judge other faiths...I'll leave that to God as, I'm not versed well in their doctrines. But, if "any other Gospel is preached outside of God's breathed Word...I will quickly dismiss it but...not the person. :)

And that's totally cool. I completely respect you and your beliefs, Nancy. I also majorly enjoy your posts here.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Fact checks:

Yeah, but Jesus also said in Matthew 7:22, "On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’"

So this is the point--knowing Jesus. We know Him through His words. So, tell me whose words are more important, Jesus Christ's or Joseph Smith's? This is part of what Mormons testify to: "I know the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the face of the earth." There are glaring differences between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and Mormons are taught to place more weight on the Book of Mormon than the Bible.

Actually, for LDS Christians, the top authority is God Himself. Not anything else.

If you want to talk to me about God, and listen to me share my love, that would be awesome. He's my absolute favorite subject and His love is the core of who I am. ​

Not all Mormons know all of LDS beliefs. For instance, not all Mormons are privy to temple rituals.

Willie's previous post was discussing LDS Christian missionaries. All of them (by the ripe old age of ~19) have attended the temple. It ain't remotely secret.

Also: if somebody tell you "hey, I'm going to tell you what Bob really believes, because I know the secret better than Bob-- but don't ask Bob, he doesn't know", that's a gigantic red flag.

I'm curious if you read the excerpts I posted from the book.

Read the entire thing and seen multiple of her presentations.

If you did, then you can see that Mormon doctrine is outside the parameters of basic Christian doctrine (Protestant in particular) taken from the Bible. So, obviously, I don't consider the Mormon religion to be just another Christian denomination.

You are totally welcoem to have the opinion (or any other). But I would encourage fact checking, less you're just disagreeing with something nobody actually believes. Which of course, you can do that too. ​

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You are totally welcoem to have the opinion (or any other). But I would encourage fact checking, less you're just disagreeing with something nobody actually believes. Which of course, you can do that too.

Thanks to you and @Enoch111, this thread is back on topic. :)

My intent in sharing what Lynn Wilder has to say is to relay a seasoned LDS veteran's explanation of what she was taught to believe. Not only was she taught Mormon doctrine for 30 years, she participated in all of the temple rituals herself (she and her husband), and she also served in the temple. She explained that she was sworn to secrecy concerning these rituals, so there are LDS beliefs that are kept from the general public and even from some Mormons who have never received a temple recommend.

As I said in the OP, I have never attended a denomination that kept any of its beliefs or practices hidden in any way. If I found out that a church I was attending did this, I would find this to be very suspect and immediately leave that church.

The fact that Lynn was saved after reading the New Testament carries a lot of weight with me. She compares and contrasts her former LDS beliefs with what the New Testament teaches. And she does this without hating on anyone.

Edit: This is what Lynn explains in chapter 5:

We agreed to “suffer our lives to be taken” if we revealed the Masonic-like tokens with their accompanying names, signs, and penalties. Verbal acknowledgment of ensuing death penalties for revealing aspects of the tokens were removed by the LDS first presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) from the temple ceremony in 1990, but every time we went to the temple after 1990, we remembered them at the appropriate place in the ceremony (p. 72).​

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thanks to you and Enoch, this thread is back on topic. :)

My intent in sharing what Lynn Wilder has to say is to relay a seasoned LDS veteran's explanation of what she was taught to believe. Not only was she taught Mormon doctrine for 30 years, she participated in all of the temple rituals herself (she and her husband), and she also served in the temple. She explained that she was sworn to secrecy concerning these rituals, so there are LDS beliefs that are kept from the general public and even from some Mormons who have never received a temple recommend.

As I said in the OP, I have never attended a denomination that kept any of its beliefs or practices hidden in any way. If I found out that a church I was attending did this, I would find this to be very suspect and immediately leave that church.

The fact that Lynn was saved after reading the New Testament carries a lot of weight with me. She compares and contrasts her former LDS beliefs with what the New Testament teaches. And she does this without hating on anyone.
.

I too would flee from somebody tying to sell you "secret" knowledge (like Lynn Wilder).

If you want to know something, just ask.
Ask me about my love of Jesus Christ, my discipleship of Him, my salvation found through Him. Or anything else Just ask.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I too would flee from somebody tying to sell you "secret" knowledge (like Lynn Wilder).

If you want to know something, just ask.
Ask me about my love of Jesus Christ, my discipleship of Him, my salvation found through Him. Or anything else Just ask.

Would you have me enter a private conversation with you as you have asked others to do in order to find out what you believe?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Would you have me enter a private conversation with you as you have asked others to do in order to find out what you believe?

Sure.