What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Nancy]

You have a way of putting things, Nancy! He does shut us up sometimes!

:)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Do you think that perhaps Joseph Smith had access to a Bible??

Here's my point, @Willie T. Even if parts of the Book of Mormon were taken verbatim from the Bible, that doesn't make it the Bible. So, Mormons are taught to testify that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book..., NOT the Bible. If Joseph Smith used parts of the Bible without clearly referencing those specific verses, we call that plagiarism!

 

[4Jesus]

Here's my point, @Willie T. Even if parts of the Book of Mormon were taken verbatim from the Bible, that doesn't make it the Bible. So, Mormons are taught to testify that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book..., NOT the Bible. If Joseph Smith used parts of the Bible without clearly referencing those specific verses, we call that plagiarism!

That's the best case scenario. The worst case scenario, if true, is that an angel, an evil angel, purposely found someone who would believe their information (moronic), caused said person to confound God's Word with those deceptive teachings, and then propogated that information with the eventual outcome of being able to claim that result is Christian, and to sow division within the whole of Christianity at later points in time. Perhaps the humans who contributed to the Book of Mormon were deliberately complicit, perhaps not and it was an evil angel which is responsible for the purposeful deception.

Either way, the "watering-down" of God's Word occurs, and is accepted by many.

 

[Grailhunter]

Agree! I have spent many hours researching other belief systems over the years, but I always compare these beliefs and doctrines with the Bible--no other book.

fundamentalism is a religious concept on it own. Stick to the scriptures....right? That approach has saved how many? But Christianity continued on after the close of the Bible. The Trinity did not close up shop. Revelation did not stop with Paul, it would not even make any sense to think that the Gods took a hand off approach. Fundamentalists want their cake and eat it too. With one foot in the Bible they want to reach out and comment on the spiritual things that occurred afterward. Judging things as if the Word of God is static, when in fact it is living. The Catholic Church, the ecumenical councils all occur after the close of the Bible. Then Protestantism, 1500 years after Christ, they stand up and say they know the way. Tens of thousands of Protestant denominations looking at the same book and reinterpreting it. But still these religions believe in Christ and believe that in His name you can be saved, and saved they are. There are basics within the denominations. But at this point, after 2000 years, the cat is out of the bag and it looks like a can of worms. Does it help that there is only one Bible? Did it keep the church from fracturing? You can look at it like, which of the thousands of interpretations is right, is my belief the only way. Or you can look at it like, those that believe in Him are Christians and due to free-will, each have their own beliefs and interpretations. I think we can agree that Christ did not intend for there to be thousands of denominations, but also we can agree if someone tried to unify all the churches into one, some would call that person the anti-Christ. We want to have our own interpretation of our religion and there is nothing evil in that. But as Christians, we are bound by the Spirit of Christianity to love one another.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Either way, the "watering-down" of God's Word occurs, and is accepted by many.

And that is the problem!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

fundamentalism is a religious concept on it own. Stick to the scriptures....right? That approach has saved how many? But Christianity continued on after the close of the Bible. The Trinity did not close up shop. Revelation did not stop with Paul, it would not even make any sense to think that the Gods took a hand off approach. Fundamentalists want their cake and eat it too. With one foot in the Bible they want to reach out and comment on the spiritual things that occurred afterward. Judging things as if the Word of God is static, when in fact it is living. The Catholic Church, the ecumenical councils all occur after the close of the Bible. Then Protestantism, 1500 years after Christ, they stand up and say they know the way. Tens of thousands of Protestant denominations looking at the same book and reinterpreting it. But still these religions believe in Christ and believe that in His name you can be saved, and saved they are. There are basics within the denominations. But at this point, after 2000 years, the cat is out of the bag and it looks like a can of worms. Does it help that there is only one Bible? Did it keep the church from fracturing? You can look at it like, which of the thousands of interpretations is right, is my belief the only way. Or you can look at it like, those that believe in Him are Christians and due to free-will, each have their own beliefs and interpretations. I think we can agree that Christ did not intend for there to be thousands of denominations, but also we can agree if someone tried to unify all the churches into one, some would call that person the anti-Christ. We want to have our own interpretation of our religion and there is nothing evil in that. But as Christians, we are bound by the Spirit of Christianity to love one another.

Hi, GH, I would like to read your post, but that bold wall of text has my eyes crossing, perhaps due to a mild brain injury I sustained earlier this year. (I know, I used bold in the OP. Maybe that was a bad idea.)

Could you at least give me some paragraphs, man??

 

[4Jesus]

And that is the problem!

Not unlike the confounding of paganism and Christianity with Emporer Constantine; same pattern. And why not use the same pattern if it works...

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I think we can agree that Christ did not intend for there to be thousands of denominations, but also we can agree if someone tried to unify all the churches into one, some would call that person the anti-Christ. We want to have our own interpretation of our religion and there is nothing evil in that. But as Christians, we are bound by the Spirit of Christianity to love one another.

I made it through the wall.

This is all about the Holy Spirit! He inspired the writers of the entire Bible. He comes to indwell us and lead us into all truth. The problem is that Christians often don't let Him lead us! Thus, many denominations.

One point here. Various denominations teach different facets of Bible truth, like free will and predestination. Both facets are clearly taught in the Bible, but denominations will stress one over the other. We tend to want either/or, not both/and. Dichotomies go against human logic.

Where cults differ from this is that they clearly go outside what the Bible teaches, not staying within the Bible's doctrinal parameters. Only one book qualifies as the Bible. There is no other.

I'm not against reading other books. I hope not; I'm a writer. But I will never elevate another book to the level of, or above, the Bible, esp. in terms of doctrine. When a group does this, it is a huge red flag to me!

Edit: I just want to explain something about myself. I didn't grow up in a Christian home. My dad wasn't saved until 2007. I prayed for his salvation for 40 years almost to the day he prayed with me to receive Jesus as his Savior. Last spring, he went home to be with the Lord. God is so good! My mom was saved a few years after my dad.

When I got into college, I created my own eclectic religion made up of whatever sounded good and made sense to my darkened, unregenerate mind. Halfway through college, God saved me by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He had drawn me with His love through reading the Gospel of Matthew.

By this time, I had believed so many false ideas. When I found the Truth, I determined that I didn't care who said what, if it didn't match up with the Bible, I wasn't going to believe it. This has served me well since 1977!

 

[Grailhunter]

I made it through the wall.

This is all about the Holy Spirit! He inspired the writers of the entire Bible. He comes to indwell us and lead us into all truth. The problem is that Christians often don't let Him lead us! Thus, many denominations.

One point here. Various denominations teach different facets of Bible truth, like free will and predestination. Both facets are clearly taught in the Bible, but denominations will stress one over the other. We tend to want either/or, not both/and. Dichotomies go against human logic.

Where cults differ from this is that they clearly go outside what the Bible teaches, not staying within the Bible's doctrinal parameters. Only one book qualifies as the Bible. There is no other.

I'm not against reading other books. I hope not; I'm a writer. But I will never elevate another book to the level of, or above, the Bible, esp. in terms of doctrine. When a group does this, it is a huge red flag to me!

Edit: I just want to explain something about myself. I didn't grow up in a Christian home. My dad wasn't saved until 2007. I prayed for his salvation for 40 years almost to the day he prayed with me to receive Jesus as his Savior. Last spring, he went home to be with the Lord. God is so good! My mom was saved a few years after my dad.

When I got into college, I created my own eclectic religion made up of whatever sounded good and made sense to my darkened, unregenerate mind. Halfway through college, God saved me by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He had drawn with His love through reading the Gospel of Matthew.

By this time, I had believed so many false ideas. When I found the Truth, I determined that I didn't care who said what, if it didn't match up with the Bible, I wasn't going to believe it. This has served me well since 1977!

I have already addressed the concept of fundamentalism....the Bible only. Even in the Bible, Paul and Peter received a revelation, maybe revelations. It has been 2000 years, no one gagged or tied God's hands. Fundamentalism is not a bad thing....not a bad thing. It saves, it keeps it simple, or simple enough. But it cannot address 2000 years of what has happened or what could have happened. But a person that is focused on the Bible only, how can they address Christian history? How can they judge it. If it is not written in the Bible it must be false? As the old ones say, the only good study is the Bible. I have a lot of friends and denominations that I fellowship with that are fundamentalists, and of course I joke with them, and they know I love them. For instance this conversation that we are having now...wow...would not be permitted you. Women were not allowed to speak to men in public or an open forum. Christ did not agree with this and he spoke to women, its the only time that a woman's voice occurs in the New Testament. His meeting with a woman at the well was not normal. His giving her a mission to take the Gospel to her people was near to sacrilegious to the time period...wow...A woman is not to speak in church.....This change in Christianity is still in progress and it is a better understanding than the Apostles knew...I am not going to include Paul because towards the end of his ministry his attitude towards women seemed to change. As we see today, we see more and more female preachers. Either way, not to make this too long for you. Christianity has changed a lot since the close of the Bible because God guided that. God's word is living and extend past the close of the Bible.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I have already addressed the concept of fundamentalism....the Bible only. Even in the Bible, Paul and Peter received a revelation, maybe revelations. It has been 2000 years, no one gagged or tied God's hands. Fundamentalism is not a bad thing....not a bad thing. It saves, it keeps it simple, or simple enough. But it cannot address 2000 years of what has happened or what could have happened. But a person that is focused on the Bible only, how can they address Christian history? How can they judge it. If it is not written in the Bible it must be false? As the old ones say, the only good study is the Bible. I have a lot of friends and denominations that I fellowship with that are fundamentalists, and of course I joke with them, and they know I love them. For instance this conversation that we are having now...wow...would not be permitted you. Women were not allowed to speak to men in public or an open forum. Christ did not agree with this and he spoke to women, its the only time that a woman's voice occurs in the New Testament. His meeting with a woman at the well was not normal. His giving her a mission to take the Gospel to her people was near to sacrilegious to the time period...wow...A woman is not to speak in church.....This change in Christianity is still in progress and it is a better understanding than the Apostles knew...I am not going to include Paul because towards the end of his ministry his attitude towards women seemed to change. As we see today, we see more and more female preachers. Either way, not to make this too long for you. Christianity has changed a lot since the close of the Bible because God guided that. God's word is living and extend past the close of the Bible.

Wow, you do pack quite an array of ideas into one long paragraph. Sorry, I'm an English teacher. I'm tempted to grade your paragraph for unity and coherence. :)

I see several distinct issues here. First, people's ideas and beliefs change, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. IOW, the truth never changes, and like I said in my last post, it is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth. So, our understanding of God's Word is dependent on the Holy Spirit working in our minds and hearts. If the truth was changing, then we would never know what to believe, but Jesus is the Truth, and He never changes.

Second, I didn't say that God stopped speaking when the Bible was completed. Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice. I believe that believers hear Him speak to us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. However, if it is truly His voice, what we hear will never contradict His written Word, the Bible. So, we are to use discernment and evaluate everything we hear by the Bible.

Third, about women keeping silent in the churches, I think I'll save this issue for another time. I definitely have my beliefs about this based on the entire counsel of God's Word.

 

[Grailhunter]

Wow, you do pack quite an array of ideas into one long paragraph. Sorry, I'm an English teacher. I'm tempted to grade your paragraph for unity and coherence. :)

I see several distinct issues here. First, people's ideas and beliefs change, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. IOW, the truth never changes, and like I said in my last post, it is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth. So, our understanding of God's Word is dependent on the Holy Spirit working in our minds and hearts. If the truth was changing, then we would never know what to believe, but Jesus is the Truth, and He never changes.

Second, I didn't say that God stopped speaking when the Bible was completed. Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice. I believe that believers hear Him speak to us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. However, if it is truly His voice, what we hear will never contradict His written Word, the Bible. So, we are to use discernment and evaluate everything we hear by the Bible.

Third, about women keeping silent in the churches, I think I'll save this for another time. I definitely have my beliefs about this based on the entire counsel of God's Word.

lol an English teacher and a writer, have they ever disagreed. lol Oh and texting? Forget it! The never changing God, is a concept, but it is proven wrong in the Bible. But I understand the fundamentalist thing. I stay in between the covers of the Bible because God has to toe the line of my beliefs and nothing can changes. The Holy Spirit works in our minds and hearts, and if I do not agree with how the Holy Spirit worked with you, you did not get it right. This is so common. As far as women speaking and working in the church, I agree with Christ. All I am suggesting is a little bit of love and little bit of understanding...too much to ask?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

All I am suggesting is a little bit of love and little bit of understanding...too much to ask?

I agree! Paul said to let love be our aim.

 

[Willie T]

GH,
PW is right about the wall of BOLDED text. Could you knock it off? It makes it hard for me to read, too.

 

[Grailhunter]

GH,
PW is right about the wall of BOLDED text. Could you knock it off? It makes it hard for me to read, too.

OK

 

[Prayer Warrior]

GH,
PW is right about the wall of BOLDED text. Could you knock it off? It makes it hard for me to read, too.

Thanks, Willie, you gave me a good laugh. :)

 

[Grailhunter]

Thanks, Willie, you gave me a good laugh. :)

lol and here I thought it made it easier to read

 

[Willie T]

lol and here I thought it made it easier to read

I am losing my vision, and it really doesn't help to have things bolded.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I am losing my vision, and it really doesn't help to have things bolded.

I'm sorry to hear this. I'll keep you in my prayers!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

lol and here I thought it made it easier to read

You would think so. I think the bold wouldn't be so bad with shorter paragraphs. I even have problems with regular text in long paragraphs. I just get lost.

 

[Willie T]

You would think so. I think the bold wouldn't be so bad with shorter paragraphs. I even have problems with regular text in long paragraphs. I just get lost.

Bet you just love Emerson and Thoreau. LOL
A sentence often claimed to be the longest sentence ever written is in Molly Bloom's soliloquy in the James Joyce novel Ulysses (1922), which contains a "sentence" of 3,687 words