What Makes Ex-Christians Think They Once Were Christians?

[DJT_47]

Peter was crystal clear when he said, "may your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God, repent of this wickedness/poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity" What kind of faith is that? Clearly not descriptive of a genuine born again Christian. Period.

Read further. He was told to repent and he did

Acts 8:22-24

22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

 

[quietthinker]

What Makes Ex-Christians Think They Once Were Christians?​

What makes others question it?

 

[mailmandan]

Read further. He was told to repent and he did

Acts 8:22-24

22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

I did read further and from the very beginning Simon thought God’s gift could be purchased with money. (Acts 8:18-20) Simon, as a sorcerer, had great power over people (Acts 8:9-10) and he desired to continue to have such power among Christians. After Simon was told to repent of his wickedness (Acts 8:22), he demonstrated a fear of judgment (Acts 8:24), but there is no conclusive evidence that Simon did truly repent.

Peter’s response indicates that Simon was not a truly converted man:
1. May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!
2. You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.
3. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity/captive to sin.

If you can believe that is descriptive of a truly saved born again Christian, then you can believe anything!

 

[DJT_47]

I did read further and from the very beginning Simon thought God’s gift could be purchased with money. (Acts 8:18-20) Simon, as a sorcerer, had great power over people (Acts 8:9-10) and he desired to continue to have such power among Christians. After Simon was told to repent of his wickedness (Acts 8:22), he demonstrated a fear of judgment (Acts 8:24), but there is no conclusive evidence that Simon did truly repent.

Peter’s response indicates that Simon was not a truly converted man:
1. May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!
2. You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.
3. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity/captive to sin.

If you can believe that is descriptive of a truly saved born again Christian, then you can believe anything!

And you're reading more into the text than is there and making erroneous assumptions and judgements. How about the Jews that crucified Christ? Wasn't that act worse than that of Simon the sorcerer? Were they not saved? The text there says 3000 were added to the body of Christ, or don't you believe that?

 

[mailmandan]

And you're reading more into the text than is there and making erroneous assumptions and judgements.

Really? It's ironic that you accuse me of eisegesis. So, what part of

May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!
You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.
For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity/captive to sin.

don't you understand? How can you honestly miss this?

How about the Jews that crucified Christ? Wasn't that act worse than that of Simon the sorcerer? Were they not saved? The text there says 3000 were added to the body of Christ, or don't you believe that?

So, what about the Jews that crucified Christ out of ignorance and unbelief? Did they remain in ignorance and in unbelief? NO. Peter made it very clear to them that God has made Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Messiah, and when the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Their hearts were ripe for repentance and the 3,000 that were added to the body of Christ that day truly did repent. Again, although Simon demonstrated a fear of judgment after being rebuked by Peter, there is no conclusive evidence that he did truly repent, but regardless, you will still continue to believe what you want to believe.

 

[DJT_47]

Really? It's ironic that you accuse me of eisegesis. So, what part of

May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!
You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.
For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity/captive to sin.

don't you understand? How can you honestly miss this?


So, what about the Jews that crucified Christ out of ignorance and unbelief? Did they remain in ignorance and in unbelief? NO. Peter made it very clear to them that God has made Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Messiah, and when the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Their hearts were ripe for repentance and the 3,000 that were added to the body of Christ that day truly did repent. Again, although Simon demonstrated a fear of judgment after being rebuked by Peter, there is no conclusive evidence that he did truly repent, but regardless, you will still continue to believe what you want to believe.

There is no long-term evidence of anyone actually repenting over time recoreded in the bible. It's immediate sorrow only that is evident and recoreded. Long term, true change, who knows in any individual case recorded in scripture; and even today in our own lives, we all weave in-and-out requiring renewed sorrow and repentance from time-to-time.The only longer-term evidence recoreded that you can see is in revelation and the 7 churches of Asia.

Edit

I might add as relating to the Jews that repented and were saved on the day of Pentecost, consider the Hebrew letter written to those newly converted Jews (Hebrews) and the warnings found in chapter 6 and 10. There was an obvious danger of them falling away and disbelieving after their conversion. This also has applicability to us today.

 

[Rockerduck]

This thread looks like a battle between those of us who are chosen by God unto salvation by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who loved us and died for us; and those who are saved and believe that a human being can undo anything what God has done, and that said human being had no part of.

God chose me, I didn't choose Him. I cannot undo what God has done in me.

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It's Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8.

You haven't learned much in 49yrs

Well despite your acerbic fingers, I suspected it was but you qouted Acts 2. Simon the Magician was never saved! there is nothing in Scripture to say he was!

I have learned much, but I do not try to second guess people or read their minds.

But iof you wish to compare knowledge to satisfy your insult- I am game.

 

[DJT_47]

Well despite your acerbic fingers, I suspected it was but you qouted Acts 2. Simon the Magician was never saved! there is nothing in Scripture to say he was!

I have learned much, but I do not try to second guess people or read their minds.

But iof you wish to compare knowledge to satisfy your insult- I am game.

Quoting Acts 2 was in reference to the Jews on the day of Pentecost and their conversion. Simon was saved. He believed and was immersed in water into Christ for the remission of sins and doing so, the Lord added him to the church (Acts 2:47) as does he all who do the same no different than I did. In your 49 years, you've not even figured out how souls are saved.
1. Belief
2. Confession of belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism

 

[mailmandan]

Quoting Acts 2 was in reference to the Jews on the day of Pentecost and their conversion. Simon was saved. He believed and was immersed in water into Christ for the remission of sins and doing so, the Lord added him to the church (Acts 2:47) as does he all who do the same no different than I did. In your 49 years, you've not even figured out how souls are saved.
1. Belief
2. Confession of belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism

Faith and Repentance

To be saved, does a person first believe or repent? What is biblical repentance? What does the Bible mean to repent?

www.cofcdilemma.org

 

[DJT_47]

Faith and Repentance

To be saved, does a person first believe or repent? What is biblical repentance? What does the Bible mean to repent?

www.cofcdilemma.org

Don't know what your point is, and yes, coC doctrine is consistent with scripture and poses no dilemma. If you believe, you will also have faith that Jesus is who he says he is and can save your soul by your confession of belief, followed by your obedience which also includes repentance and immersion in water in his name (by his authority) for the remission of sins.

 

[mailmandan]

Don't know what your point is, and yes, coC doctrine is consistent with scripture and poses no dilemma. If you believe, you will also have faith that Jesus is who he says he is and can save your soul by your confession of belief, followed by your obedience which also includes repentance and immersion in water in his name (by his authority) for the remission of sins.

The article clearly explains the dilemma in regard to the church of Christ erroneous multi-step plan of salvation which is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. Did you take the time to read it and seriously consider the truth?

 

[Instant]

I've come across a few former professing Christians who have either lost their faith or renounced it.

Real scenario. It happens.

Heb 6:4-6 For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, (6) and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.

I think that in some cases, they were never saved, but in others, they just fell away. I have known former Christians in both situations.

 

[DJT_47]

The article clearly explains the dilemma in regard to the church of Christ erroneous multi-step plan of salvation which is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. Did you take the time to read it and seriously consider the truth?

I don't waste time reading nonsense. Anyone can easily follow the biblical plan of salvation. I've said this before and here once again, man makes something easy and simple, difficult. It was clear enough for the very simple people in biblical times to understand, so why has it gotten so difficult today? It's man's unwillingness to accept the simplicity of the truth. Belief, confession, repentance, baptism. It was easy to understand back then, it should be equally easy to understand now, and it is just that simple.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't waste time reading nonsense. Anyone can easily follow the biblical plan of salvation. I've said this before and here once again, man makes something easy and simple, difficult. It was clear enough for the very simple people in biblical times to understand, so why has it gotten so difficult today? It's man's unwillingness to accept the simplicity of the truth. Belief, confession, repentance, baptism. It was easy to understand back then, it should be equally easy to understand now, and it is just that simple.

So basically you are thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are unteachable. Got it.

 

[DJT_47]

So basically you are thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are unteachable. Got it.

I can't be taught false doctrine. I ain't that dumb

 

[Stumpmaster]

This thread looks like a battle between those of us who are chosen by God unto salvation by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who loved us and died for us; and those who are saved and believe that a human being can undo anything what God has done, and that said human being had no part of.

God chose me, I didn't choose Him. I cannot undo what God has done in me.

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

I've been steering the discussion away from the one dimensional determinist view that ignores the fact that those partaking of the grace of God can and do fall from it. It happens, and God allows it to happen.

From cover to cover the Word of God speaks to the need to continue in faith or be cut off from God's mercy and grace.

 

[Lizbeth]

Peter was crystal clear when he said, "may your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God, repent of this wickedness/poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity" What kind of faith is that? Clearly not descriptive of a genuine born again Christian. Period.

The parable of the sower illustrates how things go with some who receive the word. This is not complicated and doesn't require us to overthink things. Like others here are saying, I also know a couple of people who came to faith and then fell away back into stone cold darkness and disbelief due to what I believe was shallow soil at the time. I don't think it means they still can't be restored and so I continue to hope and pray for them. It's a battle for souls to get saved and stay saved - the devil prowls around seeking who he may devour and we must not be complacent, but stay sober and alert and vigilant. We are in a war, that's for sure!.... and like any war unfortunately the reality is that there can be casualties.

The reassurances of scripture are mean to reassure us that Jesus has indeed the power, strength and authority to save us from wrath and from death - we need those reassurances to keep trusting in Him, especially when facing dire circumstances such as severe persecution etc, but it is conditional upon us remaining in Christ and continuing to follow Him. As much as those reassurances are needful, the fear of the Lord is needful too especially in times of temptation. We can't just live like the devil without sincerity towards God and expect to remain in Christ, God is not mocked. There are those He will spew out of His mouth.

 

[mailmandan]

The parable of the sower illustrates how things go with some who receive the word. This is not complicated and doesn't require us to overthink things. Like others here are saying, I also know a couple of people who came to faith and then fell away back into stone cold darkness and disbelief due to what I believe was shallow soil at the time. I don't think it means they still can't be restored and so I continue to hope and pray for them. It's a battle for souls to get saved and stay saved - the devil prowls around seeking who he may devour and we must not be complacent, but stay sober and alert and vigilant. We are in a war, that's for sure!.... and like any war unfortunately the reality is that there can be casualties.

The reassurances of scripture are mean to reassure us that Jesus has indeed the power, strength and authority to save us from wrath and from death - we need those reassurances to keep trusting in Him, especially when facing dire circumstances such as severe persecution etc, but it is conditional upon us remaining in Christ and continuing to follow Him. As much as those reassurances are needful, the fear of the Lord is needful too especially in times of temptation. We can't just live like the devil without sincerity towards God and expect to remain in Christ, God is not mocked. There are those He will spew out of His mouth.

Only God infallibly knows the hearts of people and who truly are and are not saved. Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal to the 11 remaining disciples but Jesus knew his heart and said, "he is a devil!" (John 6:70-71) The Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; they are preserved forever.. (Psalm 37:28)

In regard to the parable of the sower, in Luke 8:13, even though this shallow ground hearer is said to have "believed," he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved?" I will give the reasons. First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart.

People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation. Unlike saving belief, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It can't and it doesn't. Faith without works is dead.

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. The rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly rooted and established).

The same Greek word for "believe" (pisteuo) is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" (pisteuo) "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" to some level or degree but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation. As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their "belief" was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

So there is no loss of genuine faith or salvation here and tose who are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise are sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) Praise the Lord! :)

This is not about over thinking it. It's about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine which avoids contradictions in scripture.

 

[amigo de christo]

Peter was crystal clear when he said, "may your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God, repent of this wickedness/poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity" What kind of faith is that? Clearly not descriptive of a genuine born again Christian. Period.

Try telling that to those who came to the PROSPERITY JESUS . Like i said
too many are coming to another jesus , NOT JESUS . to the all inclusive jesus , the prosperity jesus
etc and etc . IT AINT JESUS they coming too my friend .
But how dare i say such a thing , a big hateful judgmental hater of all i must be . Exactly .
This generation has no idea what love is or GOD is . they follow satans iventions .
TIME TO BIBLE UP and teach n preach THAT TRUTH , THAT JESUS , THAT CHRIST , THAT GOD before its forever too late
for the ever so high number of even those who profess to be christiains . MANY DONT KNOW HIM , THEY DONT FOLLOW HIM
THEY DONT LOVE HIM . they embrace a lie . that simple that plain .