What Makes Ex-Christians Think They Once Were Christians?

[liafailrock]

Hear me out. One of the most saddening and frightening renouncement of Christianity I've heard was the creator of Bible Wheel (web site) where he had every Gematria of the Bible from beginning to end. He was a mathematical/scientific/computer type and was obviously a genius. He was baptized and made a confession of faith and truly believed he was saved. He believed the Bible (as I do) that so many mathematical "coincidences" are not possible with the numerical patterns he found, thus divinely inspired. Then, one day he debunked his own work but kept it online for awhile since he put so much work into it. When he lost his faith, many Christians claimed he did not have true faith to begin with, but he will argue otherwise as he was on fire for the Lord. Why did he fall away? The impression I got was there was not any deciding factor or some sort of trauma. Rather, it's like a couple who love each other intensely for years and one morning they wake up and don't love each other any longer; why? we don't know. Some sort of spark just went away and he no longer saw the mathematical miracle in the Bible.

I'm not sure if (despite what Jesus said) a man plucked him out of His hand (that man being himself) or if his knowledge was his own undoing, i.e. I know that the more a person gets into science the more they tend to become atheists. I'm not saying true science is a sham, but there's this pride element that one gets (and maybe falls in love in the place of God) that they think they know more than they do. That's why I'm a Sir Isaac Newton man. Newton knew he was smart, but not anywhere near as smart as God. The mathematics of Gematria and mystical numbers I love as well does not replace the wisdom of God, but rather demonstrates it. But mankind in his pride may feel he can "explain" it all and thus lose faith as this fellow did. But despite crucifying Christ afresh, he can still have forgiveness again if he repents and I hope the best for the man. He seemed like a decent soul after all.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady, what do you say is the problem with this scenario. I was once baptized and believed Jesus could be true but wasn't sure. I, after, fell away and didn't believe in Him anymore because I was not very learned (a Christian who's house was built on a rock, which stands firm, forever and does not fall with a great crash when the wind blows) do you think I will go to hell? God showed himself to me after and it feels like he sealed me in permanently 'cause I can never reject Him ever again based on all that I know now. Thank you lots for your reply. :)

I was baptized three times before I was saved. After I was filled with the Spirit and born again of the Spirit, God spoke to me and said, "Now be baptized in water." So now that you've got Him inside, and you do, be baptized in water for the right reasons. I prefer full immersion because it is a burial. But God sees the heart and intention.

Before, you were gaining knowledge. That is called "drawing." During that time you may fluctuate back and forth. The Spirit dwelling inside stabilizes us. Many "Christians" are still in the drawing stage, the Bible says of them, "forever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth." My ministry is to the Church to get members to repent and become actual born again Christians, like on the forums. But outside it is mostly to pastors, and I write books.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ah, OSAS doctrine.

Actually, @Behold hates OSAS, because it has so often meant license to sin. So, he never uses that acronym.

I prefer assurance or confidence in my salvation based on 1 John 3:21-22

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

I also like the last two verses of 2 Peter 1:2-11.

And, yes, all of my prayers have been answered and received for 46 years, so I know He sees me as "sinless." And no, that is not "sinless perfection." They are two different stages of abiding In Christ. Sinlessness happens when Jesus takes away lawless sin our of our nature at "Justification." 1 John 3:4-5. Then comes the progressive growth of the fruit of the Spirit towards perfection. Jesus is the vine-keeper of the fruit as well as taking away our sin unto death.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I was baptized three times before I was saved. After I was filled with the Spirit and born again of the Spirit, God spoke to me and said, "Now be baptized in water." So now that you've got Him inside, and you do, be baptized in water for the right reasons. I prefer full immersion because it is a burial. But God sees the heart and intention.

Before, you were gaining knowledge. That is called "drawing." During that time you may fluctuate back and forth. The Spirit dwelling inside stabilizes us. Many "Christians" are still in the drawing stage, the Bible says of them, "forever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth." My ministry is to the Church to get members to repent and become actual born again Christians, like on the forums. But outside it is mostly to pastors, and I write books.

Thank you so much! it sounds clear to me that it was the drawing stage.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thank you so much! it sounds clear to me that it was the drawing stage.

Exactly!

 

[Berserk]

Back in the late 1940s and early 1950s, many thought Chuck Templeton showed more promise as a successful evangelist than his close friend, Billy Graham. Chuck co-founded Youth for Christ, an organization that won countless souls for Christ. He drew thousands to his evangelistic crusades. He even once raised the dead through prayer! I have heard one of his taped sermons and he proved a passionate preacher of the Gospel. He is without question Canada's most distinguished preacher ever.

So what happened? Chuck gradually lost his confidence in biblical inspiration and eventually became an agnostic. He tried to explain away raising the dead by claiming there must be some natural explanation. I believe he was once an outstanding Christian uniquely targeted by Satan until he tragically backslid. So sad!

 

[dadman]

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us ............ a real believer will always continue, even unto the end

John 8:31 Said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

there is no such thing as: "I used to be a Christian"

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hear me out. One of the most saddening and frightening renouncement of Christianity I've heard was the creator of Bible Wheel (web site) where he had every Gematria of the Bible from beginning to end. He was a mathematical/scientific/computer type and was obviously a genius. He was baptized and made a confession of faith and truly believed he was saved. He believed the Bible (as I do) that so many mathematical "coincidences" are not possible with the numerical patterns he found, thus divinely inspired. Then, one day he debunked his own work but kept it online for awhile since he put so much work into it. When he lost his faith, many Christians claimed he did not have true faith to begin with, but he will argue otherwise as he was on fire for the Lord. Why did he fall away? The impression I got was there was not any deciding factor or some sort of trauma. Rather, it's like a couple who love each other intensely for years and one morning they wake up and don't love each other any longer; why? we don't know. Some sort of spark just went away and he no longer saw the mathematical miracle in the Bible.

I'm not sure if (despite what Jesus said) a man plucked him out of His hand (that man being himself) or if his knowledge was his own undoing, i.e. I know that the more a person gets into science the more they tend to become atheists. I'm not saying true science is a sham, but there's this pride element that one gets (and maybe falls in love in the place of God) that they think they know more than they do. That's why I'm a Sir Isaac Newton man. Newton knew he was smart, but not anywhere near as smart as God. The mathematics of Gematria and mystical numbers I love as well does not replace the wisdom of God, but rather demonstrates it. But mankind in his pride may feel he can "explain" it all and thus lose faith as this fellow did. But despite crucifying Christ afresh, he can still have forgiveness again if he repents and I hope the best for the man. He seemed like a decent soul after all.

The username Shekel comes to mind. I didn't know he recanted, but I recall a dogmatic reliance on his formulas at the forefront of his material which might have had an undesirable influence.

 

[Stumpmaster]

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us ............ a real believer will always continue, even unto the end

John 8:31 Said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

there is no such thig as: "I used to be a Christian"

John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. (2) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

 

[Behold]

Metaphors have their limits.

Being born of your mother is not a metaphor.

Being born of the Spirit of God, is not a metaphor.

Birth is not a metaphor.

You can never be un-birthed.

You have to think, Stumpmaster.

 

[Behold]

Oh.
I am sorry about that. :cool:
We need to make sure we use the right Bible. :)

.... a way to get around scriptures to prove one's point.

There are some really bad "new" bible versions, and a few of the early "new" versions are loaded with issues.

The issue with new bibles is that they can be slanted theologically to suit the group who created it.

Mormons would create a "new" bible that reflects the book of mormon., is the idea.

So, this really happens.
What you do is find out if the "new" bible tries to hide the Deity of Christ, or if it takes the title "Lord" out of a lot of verses, or removes the word "God" from verses where it should be found.
And a few other issues..
They always change DOCTRINE< by omitting words, or even entire verses.

 

[Rockerduck]

I was Born again in 1988. Since then, I had sometimes walked my own path , but God always pulled me back. Every time I tried it my way I failed, and God brought me back. I finally surrendered all and I am eternally grateful that He has not let me go. I belong to God.

One who is truly saved cannot loose his salvation, God wouldn't let me go. Any who walks away wasn't saved, Period. It was God who called you , you didn't save yourself (works). You have no control over God.

 

[Triumph1300]

One who is truly saved cannot loose his salvation

Matthew 24:10-13.
At that time many will turn "away from the faith," and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and "deceive" many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, "but he who stands firm to the end will be saved".

 

[Jim B]

Because true lambs follow CHRIST JESUS THE KING . Yep , years ago
many would have thought during the great falling away it would mean empty churches .
Yet under the very falling away more and more are gathering as one right under a deception .
And the more filled churches are now the ones who are preaching n teaching the lie .
That is sad to see . But it is true . BUT lambs are doing exploits , the true lambs are rising up
speaking truth . Some are gathering in small groups . BUT NO MATTER where they are ,
no matter how far and wide they are scattered , ONE THING IS CERTAIN . THE LORD IS WITH ALL LAMBS .
Now let all that has breath both praise and thank the LORD . And let none buy the lies and the lie of the new global religoin .

"And the more filled churches are now the ones who are preaching n teaching the lie" but you, of course, with your judgmental rants, are teaching the truth? LOL!!! You are clearly deceived!

You write self-contradictory nonsense... "lambs are doing exploits , the true lambs are rising up
speaking truth" ... "BUT NO MATTER where they are , no matter how far and wide they are scattered THE LORD IS WITH ALL LAMBS".

And then you end with your usual nonsense: "And let none buy the lies and the lie of the new global religoin ." There is no such thing as a religoin, never mind a global one.

 

[Jim B]

Hear me out. One of the most saddening and frightening renouncement of Christianity I've heard was the creator of Bible Wheel (web site) where he had every Gematria of the Bible from beginning to end. He was a mathematical/scientific/computer type and was obviously a genius. He was baptized and made a confession of faith and truly believed he was saved. He believed the Bible (as I do) that so many mathematical "coincidences" are not possible with the numerical patterns he found, thus divinely inspired. Then, one day he debunked his own work but kept it online for awhile since he put so much work into it. When he lost his faith, many Christians claimed he did not have true faith to begin with, but he will argue otherwise as he was on fire for the Lord. Why did he fall away? The impression I got was there was not any deciding factor or some sort of trauma. Rather, it's like a couple who love each other intensely for years and one morning they wake up and don't love each other any longer; why? we don't know. Some sort of spark just went away and he no longer saw the mathematical miracle in the Bible.

I'm not sure if (despite what Jesus said) a man plucked him out of His hand (that man being himself) or if his knowledge was his own undoing, i.e. I know that the more a person gets into science the more they tend to become atheists. I'm not saying true science is a sham, but there's this pride element that one gets (and maybe falls in love in the place of God) that they think they know more than they do. That's why I'm a Sir Isaac Newton man. Newton knew he was smart, but not anywhere near as smart as God. The mathematics of Gematria and mystical numbers I love as well does not replace the wisdom of God, but rather demonstrates it. But mankind in his pride may feel he can "explain" it all and thus lose faith as this fellow did. But despite crucifying Christ afresh, he can still have forgiveness again if he repents and I hope the best for the man. He seemed like a decent soul after all.

I have read a lot on various forums about the numerology of the Bible. 99.99999% is total nonsense, such as finding 1611 -- the year the first KJV was published -- from two disparate verses, thus proving it is God's true translated word.

There is a connection between Hebrew words and numbers, but that is rarely the topic.

 

[Behold]

. When he lost his faith,

Faith is not the Savior.

We are not saved by faith... we are saved by GOD....through faith.

The proof of being "saved" is to be born again.

If after you are born.....again..... you have a faith crisis, then that is in your mind, and has no effect on the spiritual birth that has already taken place.

Something else that can happen.....
'
A born again Christian may come under extreme condemnation because of some work of the Flesh they committed.

And because they have had no real teacher show them how to understand becoming "a new creation in Christ"... the Devil, or some carnal believer or fake believer tells the..."yeah, it could be that you've lost it"..."lost your salvation".
Forums are filled with these type people who get a carnal delight in trying to Prove that the Cross of Christ, the Blood Atonement, is only as good as your Behavior.

So, there are many cases where the believer has no ability to resist all types of "wrong mindsets" because they dont actually understand "The Gift of Salvation" that God had imputed into/unto them.

 

[Jim B]

1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us ............ a real believer will always continue, even unto the end

John 8:31 Said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

there is no such thig as: "I used to be a Christian"

You can't come to this false conclusion.

1 John 2:18-19, "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

1 John 1:5-10, "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

1 John 2:18-19, "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Clearly there were people who were once part of the body of Christ, but left.

And there is an even clearer example...

Romans 11:17-22, " If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off."

That is as clear as it gets that a person can be an ex-Christian.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi Gary,
It seems to me that the great falling away or, "apostacy" and the new global religion, kind of go hand in hand. Those who are falling away from the church's of today ARE the true Christians, refusing to sit under false teachings. For so very long, I assumed (oop's!) that it would be the true Christians who stayed while the false ones left to go back into the world.

Funny how we can flip flop our beliefs over the years.

As you can see by the responses , as i seen on mine .
WE got us a SOLIDER of the new global social gospel religion amongst us .
Just a friendly reminder .

 

[dadman]

I do not believe that God has the power to save you, but then has not the power to keep you

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free ..... John 8:31-32

 

[Jim B]

Hi Gary,
It seems to me that the great falling away or, "apostacy" and the new global religion, kind of go hand in hand. Those who are falling away from the church's of today ARE the true Christians, refusing to sit under false teachings. For so very long, I assumed (oop's!) that it would be the true Christians who stayed while the false ones left to go back into the world.

Funny how we can flip flop our beliefs over the years.

Who is we? Many of us have stayed true to our beliefs for as long as we have been Christians.