No, you do not understand what I have said.
Your reliance on your good works is legalism.
WHAT IS THE SIN UNTO DEATH?
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Your reliance on your good works is legalism.
It's either . . . complete reliance on Jesus for our salvation . . . OR . . . a combination of reliance on Jesus and ________ (generally, yourself) for our salvation.
Is the man who has a real faith in Jesus, who has been reborn, but done NO good works, will that man be saved?
We are justified by one act of obedience. Is that ours? Or someone else?
Much love!
If we have a real relationship with our Creator, then that's the pertinent fact, is it not?
If we've trusted in Jesus and been reborn, then we are His, and in time, we will grow to know Him better, become more like Him, and demons, for all their 'head knowledge', don't have that.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Legalism would be relying on circumcision to save you. Don't you know that people listen to what you say, and if you don't explain it is the "works of the law" that won't save us, and they go on fornicating, you are accountable for that?
I can only hope they are listening to what I am myself saying, rather than how you present me.
Again, I'd have to go back to the question, are you able to restate with fairness and accuracy my view? I don't know that you really understand my POV, based on your responses.
Much love!
Absolutely. Paul had to deal with such a situation and here is what he said:
1 CORINTHIANS 5: THE SOUL AND SPIRIT SAVED IN SPITE OF SERIOUS SIN
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [THE SIN UNTO DEATH]
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
James said it best.
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
So, marks, James said, your faith alone will not save you. This error you've made regarding the works of the law has translated into shunning the teaching of obedience. How many people have believed you? Behold believes the same error, as does Enoch and many others. The best teaching we can give anyone who wants to be saved is about getting baptized in the Spirit. It is NOT automatic by having faith in Christ, or even keeping commandments out of your flesh/legalism. We must be born again through true repentance.
After I was baptized in the Spirit in 1977, 30 years after starting to go to church, it was a real wake up call to how most Christians are not saved, just like I hadn't been. We must be born again. It is literal. It is not some theological position as Behold seems to believe, and you like his beliefs. Yikes!
I consider you one of my favorite people on the forums, but this area of "works" has you believing some errors that are leading you astray into teaching falsehoods. "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment." I take that word from James seriously, because in 2000, God spoke to me while I was driving in the desert of Arizona, and told me He was giving me the office of teacher. He has also taught me more after that, than in all the time from 1977 to 2000. I can only teach what He's taught me, but I can't make you listen.
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Here is my earlier response #27 to the same verses.
Giving the sinning believers "up to Satan" is the same as shunning that the Amish do. The only way this person can be saved is if they repent. That is the purpose of shunning. It's a "wake up call." If they die in their sins, their soul is NOT saved. It is all about getting someone to repent, and be restored back into the Church in good standing. I don't think that is the case with the Amish. I believe theirs is permanent, like a Catholic excommunication, but I could be wrong.
Go to the next letter, chapter 2 and 7.
2 Corinthians 2:
6 This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.
7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
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Your comments are quite misplaced, I assure you!
We have no disagreement over what James wrote, I think. Whatever you may call faith, if you aren't changed, that that's not faith. Isn't this what he is saying? Faith that doesn't produce change is a dead faith, no better then the demons who KNOW there is a God, and Who He is.
But I don't think you really understand what I believe, and teach, and I'm seeing where you are not representing me correctly.
If you mean that you obedience saves you, or keeps you saved, then yes, I completely oppose that teaching.
If you mean that you are only saved if you have perfect obedience, then, not even you believe that.
If you mean that we are to obey Christ in all things, absolutely!! Yes!
What do I believe about justification? Do you know?
Much love!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
We are called to have the mind of Christ. This in my opinion is humility which by my definition is not to think meanly of yourself, rather to not think of yourself at all. Unfortunately many people who claim Christ see this mind as an Ascent rather than a descent. Which is what the Lord would have us do imo. Take upon us the role of servant, every morning awaking to a willing obedience to perform His will, this has nothing to do with praying to God to not let your hair get wet, as I see it.
A Christ centered mind places His will at the forefront. The self-centered mind places self at forefront.
He came not to seek His own.
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
You specialize in CONTRADICTING Scripture. And there is no remedy for naysayers.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Well, I certainly hope you are correct, but please believe me when you make a short statement without context, it can be interpreted a number of different ways from truth to outright easy-greasy grace. So, please don't leave anything to false interpretation. I KNOW you are a man of God, and I love that about you, but you tend to take short-cuts in teaching. This is why I try to never just say "sin," when I mean willful sin of lawlessness 1 John 3:4. See what I mean? I probably have failed in my own rule, but I try, knowing how important the whole truth is.
According to your choice of words, I see this as when you first come to Christ. So, no, trying to save yourself with obedience to the Law of Moses (10C), like the man in Romans 7:14-23 did and failed, is not the answer, even if you know about Christ. Neither is the definition of repentance being "turning away from sin" when you still have a fallen nature. Can't be done. Eventually, you will always obey your nature.
You are not clear as to when this is - before or after being filled with the Spirit of Christ. If before, then it is the same answer as to one above this. If after, then that is what we are required to do to the extent we have knowledge according to Philippians 3:16. It doesn't mean perfect obedience in the eyes of an all-knowing God, but perfect obedience as far as your own conscience is concerned, according to what you believe is against God, then yes I do. 1 John 3:18-24. We are commanded not to grieve, and especially not to quench the Spirit. Everyone has a conscience and a measure of faith, even the unsaved given to them by the Father. But the Spirit super-sensitizes our conscience so it would be quite painful to go against your new conscience to even commit willful known sin.
Ephesians 5:27 "that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
I agree, but - Why? Elaborate. See, you say you agree with Behold, but don't actually according to this answer.
Until I learn otherwise, when we truly repent unto Christ, and He fills us with His Holy Spirit, all our past sins are forgiven and taken away forever. It is "just-as-if-I-had-never-sinned." I learned that decades ago, even before I was Spirit-filled. Justification is day ONE. 2 Peter 1:9 "cleansed of old sins."
Sanctification is also day ONE, though many don't know that. <Justification/Sanctification> are back-to-back. Justification looks back at all the sins committed before Christ's Spirit, and we are then Sanctified, set apart unto good works going forward by walking in the Spirit that was given to us that first day. When I first was given this understanding by God, I asked Him, then what is the growing process we go through that everyone thinks is sanctification? And He immediately said, "Glorification." Along with that came the revelation that the glory of Christ would be seen in us as we abide in Him, and He in us. That is glorification. The process has nothing to do with overcoming sin, as the Church believes is sanctification - that was dealt with on day one. I had never heard of that term before, but after that, I kept noticing, that glorification was indeed, scriptural. We have the mind of Christ, and are becoming like Christ. Romans 8:17-30; 2 Peter 1:2-11; Romans 2:10; Romans 9:4; Romans 9:23-24; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 2 Corinthians 4:16-18; Ephesians 1:16-18; Ephesians 3:16-19; Ephesians 5:27; Colossians 1:27; 1 Thessalonians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Thessalonians 3:1-3; Hebrews 2:10; 1 Peter 4:14; 1 Peter 5:1; 1 Peter 5:10.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I can't help it if you can't see it. Seeing as the man didn't die according to the next epistle, your definition is very wrong, and the next chapter also says that repentance leads to salvation - the true purpose of turning one over for the destruction of their flesh - their unsaved carnal nature! We must be born again.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Here is a little bit of teaching regarding one thing you questioned about in your Thread.
"sin"... "Unto " = "death".
Again.... the bible is speaking spiritually, and not in the secular or worldly sense.
So, why can't you pray for this sin to be forgiven?
That is the CLUE the spiritually identifies this specific sin.
Let me show you who committed this sin.
"you have crucified Christ afresh".. "you have trodden underfoot the sanctifying blood", "you have tasted the heavenly gift,, "you have sinned willfully"...
See all that ? That is Paul defining the consequence of what these Jews are doing when he has just given them the chance to believe on Messiah, and they REJECT THEIR MESSIAH.
He does this in Hebrews 10 and again in Acts 28
Notice what he says happens, when they rejected Christ.......
So, that is the "unpardonable sin"... they committed.
This is the ONE SIN, that can't be forgiven, because this ONE SIN, rejects the only way to be forgiven of all sin.
So, if you reject Pardon, you dont GET PARDONED.
If you reject forgiveness, you DIE unforgiven.
If you reject CHRIST, you die a CHRIST REJECTOR.
This is the "unpardonable sin".....and there is no need to pray for this, because this sin can't be forgiven.
"i do not say that you should (make a request) (pray for it).
This is the sin that follows you into heaven, after you die.
See, unbelievers believe that if you are good enough, God will let you in to heaven.
Heretical Christians are of the same carnal belief.
Baby Christians, who are not mature, think that there are many sins that God is going to send you to hell for., when in fact, its just one.
1.) The sin of dying UNFORGIVEN....= The Unpardonable Sin = Christ Rejector.
Now look at this verse below..
This verse tells you that the Christ Rejector (The Unbeliever) is already DAMNED, while they are on earth, breathing.
"Hell", "the lake of Fire", "Revelation 20:11" "death", "outer darkness".."the 2nd Death"... is what they END UP WITH after they die, but their damnation that sent them there, was already on them, when they were Christ Rejectors, on earth.
They, and WE, were all damned until WE were delivered from the "2nd Death", or "Death" as your Thread is talking about, by the Blood of Yeshua.
Unbelievers are not delivered from this "Death", they are in fact heading for it, and are currently DAMNED for Eternity, already.
Notice that the WRATH of GOD is ON them , right now..... already..
John 3:36
""""Al that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and All that believeth not the Son.... shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on them all."
marks said: ↑
What do I believe about justification? Do you know?
In a nutshell . . . our justification is this.
When we trust in Jesus, we are joined to Him in His death, and in His resurrection. The death due us for having sinned is accomplished. So then, having died, we no longer die again. In joining in His resurrection, we are raised sinless creatures who are newly born from God. So we are forever separated from our sin, by death, in that who we were died, and by life, in that we are newly alive, and holy and righteous, without sin.
In the words of Paul in Romans 6, the one who has died is justified away from sin. Forgiven through Jesus death, and righteous through Jesus' life.
So what I'm wondering is if you can articulate my view in your own words.
Much love!
What do I believe about justification? Do you know?
In a nutshell . . . our justification is this.
When we trust in Jesus, we are joined to Him in His death, and in His resurrection. The death due us for having sinned is accomplished. So then, having died, we no longer die again. In joining in His resurrection, we are raised sinless creatures who are newly born from God. So we are forever separated from our sin, by death, in that who we were died, and by life, in that we are newly alive, and holy and righteous, without sin.
In the words of Paul in Romans 6, the one who has died is justified away from sin. Forgiven through Jesus death, and righteous through Jesus' life.
So what I'm wondering is if you can articulate my view in your own words.
Much love!
This sin has NOTHING to do with Jesus, nor the Father, but with the Spirit of God alone. It involves the word BLASPHEMY, and broken down in two parts is blapsis, or injurious, and the second part of the word, phemi, to speak. So, it is not something one does, or believes, but what one SAYS. Matthew begins with verse 31: "Wherefore I say unto you, ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: But the Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Verse 32. And WHOSOEVER speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever SPEAKS against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him... In Mark 3:28-30 repeats the general warning but includes an example in verse 30- BECAUSE, they SAID, He has an UNCLEAN spirit. The scripture reveals it is something we say, and that against the Spirit of God, and is not about faith or unbelief etc.
I agree.
The pharisees, not wanting to believe Jesus, claimed His power was from an evil or unclean spirit. And that was what was unforgiveable.
Much love!
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