What is the purpose of infant baptism?

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Johann

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I've repeatedly refuted you and you friends with Scripture and history - typos, notwithstanding . . .
Why I don't hold to the ECF-

Early Church Fathers on the Real Presence in the Eucharist
It’s always important to know the origins of our faith comes, especially in light of Protestant accusations that much of what we believe are merely Catholic “inventions”. The Early Church Fathers (ECFs) of the first few centuries are our witnesses to the truth of God revealed to his Church. They - some of whom learned from the Apostles themselves - taught the reality of Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist from the beginning.

Ignatius of Antioch - “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr – “We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus.” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria - "Eat my flesh" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Cyril of Jerusalem – “The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

Augustine – “That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, that chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ.” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
 

BreadOfLife

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Why I don't hold to the ECF-

Early Church Fathers on the Real Presence in the Eucharist
It’s always important to know the origins of our faith comes, especially in light of Protestant accusations that much of what we believe are merely Catholic “inventions”. The Early Church Fathers (ECFs) of the first few centuries are our witnesses to the truth of God revealed to his Church. They - some of whom learned from the Apostles themselves - taught the reality of Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist from the beginning.

Ignatius of Antioch - “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr – “We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus.” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria - "Eat my flesh" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Cyril of Jerusalem – “The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

Augustine – “That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, that chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ.” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
NOT sure what your point is.
First, you say, "Why I don't hold to the ECF".

Then,
you go on to make the case for the Eucharist- quoting the
ECFs.
What atre you trying to say?
 

BreadOfLife

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You need to be taught a lesson-quickly

The Assyrian Church of the East, sometimes referred to as the Assyrian Catholic Church, has its origins in the ancient Christian community of Mesopotamia, particularly in the regions of Assyria and Persia (modern-day Iraq and Iran). Here is an overview of its origins and historical development:

Early History:
Ancient Christian Presence: The Assyrian Church traces its roots to the early Christian communities established in Mesopotamia, which was a diverse region with significant Christian populations since the 1st century AD.

Nestorian Movement: In the 5th century AD, theological disputes over the nature of Christ's divine and human natures led to the Nestorian controversy. Nestorius, the Archbishop of Constantinople, advocated a theological position that emphasized the distinction between Christ's divine and human aspects. This theological perspective found support among many Eastern Christian communities, including those in Persia and Assyria.

Establishment of the Church:
Council of Seleucia-Ctesiphon (410 AD): This council, held in the capital of the Persian Empire (modern-day Baghdad), played a significant role in formally organizing the church structure and solidifying its distinct theological identity.

Spread and Growth: The Assyrian Church of the East expanded throughout the Persian Empire and beyond, reaching regions such as India and Central Asia. It became a major center of Christianity in the East, alongside the Byzantine (Eastern Orthodox) Church.

Schisms and Later Developments:
Division: Over the centuries, the Assyrian Church of the East experienced internal divisions and external pressures, including encounters with Islam after the Arab conquests of the 7th century.

Modern History: In the 16th century, some Assyrian Christians entered communion with the Catholic Church, forming what is known as the Chaldean Catholic Church. This created a division within the Assyrian Church, with some adhering to the traditional Nestorian theology and others accepting communion with Rome.

Present Day:
Assyrian Church of the East: Today, the Assyrian Church of the East maintains its presence primarily in Iraq, Iran, and the diaspora communities around the world. It continues to uphold its ancient liturgical traditions and theological heritage, focusing on the teachings of the early Church Fathers and the decisions of the early councils.

Challenges and Identity: The Assyrian Church of the East faces challenges such as political instability in its traditional homelands and efforts to preserve its unique cultural and religious identity in the modern world.

Conclusion:
The Assyrian Church of the East, with its roots in ancient Mesopotamia and the Nestorian theological tradition, represents one of the oldest Christian communities in the world. Its historical development, theological distinctiveness, and enduring presence make it a significant part of the rich tapestry of Christianity in the Middle East and beyond.


Assyrian Church of the East:

Origins: The Assyrian Church of the East traces its origins to the ancient Christian community in Mesopotamia, with roots going back to the early centuries of Christianity. It historically adheres to Nestorian theology, emphasizing a distinction between the human and divine natures of Christ.
Autonomy: The Assyrian Church of the East is an independent Eastern Christian church with its own hierarchy, liturgical traditions, and theological distinctives. It is not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church (Latin Church) and maintains its own ecclesiastical structure.

Geographical Presence: Its followers primarily reside in regions historically associated with Assyria, including parts of modern-day Iraq, Iran, and the Assyrian diaspora around the world.
Assyrian Catholic Church:

Formation: In the 16th century, a portion of the Assyrian Church of the East entered into communion with the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of Mar Yohannan Sulaqa, who was consecrated as a Catholic bishop. This group became known as the Chaldean

Catholic Church.

Distinct Rite: The Assyrian Catholic Church, along with other Eastern Catholic Churches, retains its own liturgical rites, spiritual traditions, and cultural heritage while being in full communion with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope).

Union with Rome: By entering into communion with Rome, Assyrian Catholics maintain their Eastern Christian identity, including their liturgical practices and theological traditions, while recognizing the Pope as the spiritual head of the Catholic Church.

Hierarchy: The Assyrian Catholic Church has its own hierarchy, led by patriarchs and bishops who govern its affairs and oversee its spiritual life within the framework of Catholic canon law.

Eastern Catholic Churches and the Roman/Latin Rite:

Unity in Diversity: The Catholic Church is composed of various sui iuris (self-governing) particular churches, each with its own liturgical rites, disciplines, and theological emphases. These churches include Eastern Catholic Churches (such as the Chaldean Catholic Church, Maronite Catholic Church, Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, etc.) and the Roman/Latin Rite.

Communion: While distinct in their traditions and practices, all Eastern Catholic Churches are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, affirming the Catholic Church's unity in faith and sacraments.

Appreciation of Diversity: The Catholic Church values the diversity of its Eastern and Western traditions, recognizing that each particular church contributes to the richness of Catholicism while maintaining unity in essentials of faith and communion with the Pope.

The Assyrian Catholic Church is indeed one of several Eastern Catholic Churches that maintain their own liturgical rites and traditions while being in communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

This communion does not erase their distinctiveness but rather allows them to express their faith within the broader Catholic communion. The Assyrian Church of the East, on the other hand, remains a separate Eastern Christian church with its own traditions and theological heritage, not in communion with Rome but maintaining its ancient apostolic roots and identity.

And now we can start with you and your foul mouth--
In other words - I was right and YOU were WRONG bout calling it the "Assyrian RCC".

Sooooo, what's your point??
 

Taken

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I didn’t say it DID. I was pointing to people in Heaven.


You were pointing to ….PEOPLE in Heaven…

REALLY…What scripture TAUGHT YOU…
Body’s and Souls…of earthly men GO TO HEAVEN?



Person…An individual human being consisting of body and soul. Person applies to living beings only.

God forms the body from dust of the earth. A dead body returns to dust of the earth…

Dead body’s do NOT rise up to Heaven.
 

BreadOfLife

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Your arrogance, snarkiness and gaslighting has run out of steam to be laughable…
To down right disgusting. Congrats on reaching your plateau .
Just when I thought you'd vomited out enough "wisdom" . . .
 
J

Johann

Guest
NOT sure what your point is.
First, you say, "Why I don't hold to the ECF".

Then,
you go on to make the case for the Eucharist- quoting the
ECFs.
What atre you trying to say?
Nope-I oppose it.

Early Church Fathers on the Real Presence in the Eucharist

It’s always important to know the origins of our faith comes, especially in light of Protestant accusations that much of what we believe are merely Catholic “inventions”.

The Early Church Fathers (ECFs) of the first few centuries are our witnesses to the truth of God revealed to his Church. They - some of whom learned from the Apostles themselves - taught the reality of Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist from the beginning.

Ignatius of Antioch - “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr – “We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus.” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria - "Eat my flesh" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Cyril of Jerusalem – “The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

Augustine – “That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, that chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ.” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
 
J

Johann

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In other words - I was right and YOU were WRONG bout calling it the "Assyrian RCC".

Sooooo, what's your point??
Typo error on my part re the Assyrian [Roman] Catholic Church--but then, everything is "Romanish"
 

Taken

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I used Rev. 6:8 to show you that there us intercession for those on earth from those on Heaven.[/FONT]

There IS “ONE” IN Heaven, who intercedes FOR the Living Believers ON EARTH…
JESUS…!

Rom 8:34
Heb 7:25
1 John 2:1

WHOM…does not intercede for the non-believers…
Jon 17:9

Dead body’s of men RETURN to the Earth.
They do NOT go to Heaven.

Souls and Spirits of men IN Heaven are not interceding for living men on Earth.



WRONG, son.
NOTHING that imperfect or impure can enter into Heaven (Rev. 21:26).

And, as I already schooled you – there ARE disembodied souls in Heaven
(Eph. 4:5-6).

SURE it is.

The anti-Catholic position is that there us NONE that is righteous on earth – for ALL have sinned and fall short. I hear this argument ALL the time when defending Mary’s Immaculate Conception.

James CLEARLY says that the prayers of a RIGTEOUS person are very powerful.
If there are NONE righteous on earth – than he us referring to those in Heaven.

You can’t have it BOTH ways . . .


WRONG.

Prayer isn’t a “form” of asking.
It literally means “To ASK”.

To ask a to make a request from someone here on earth is to PRAY to them.
It is legal, juridical language that is used in police reports and court documents.

And you can call those in Heaven “Dead” until you turn BLUE – but they are more alive than YOU are in Christ . . .
 

Taken

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Just when I thought you'd vomited out enough "wisdom" . . .

You have such a difficult time with comprehending the meaning of simple common words…

Gag does not mean vomit!
Wisdom does not mean vomit.
Vomit does not mean withholding wisdom.

GAG is a notice to try and contain your snarky accusing gaslighting behavior.
 

Fred J

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Well, you should say in the name of the father son Holy Ghost, then baptize them in the name of Jesus. Now you just gotta switch it into forward instead of reverse.
You miss to perceive, Apostle Peter commanded, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:
17. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of Lord Jesus, giving thanks to GOD and he FATHER by Him.
 
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Johann

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Rev 6:8 So I looked, and behold, an ashen (pale greenish gray) horse [like a corpse, representing death and pestilence]; and its rider's name was Death; and Hades (the realm of the dead) was following with him. They were given authority and power over a fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword and with famine and with N1plague (pestilence, disease) and by the wild beasts of the earth. [Eze_14:21; Hos_13:14]

Rom 8:34 Who is the one who condemns us? Christ Jesus is the One who died [to pay our penalty], and more than that, who was raised [from the dead], and who is at the right hand of God interceding [with the Father] for us.

Heb 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever (completely, perfectly, for eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede and intervene on their behalf [with God].

1Jn 2:1 My little children (believers, dear ones), I am writing you these things so that you will not sin and violate God's law. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous [the upright, the just One, who conforms to the Father's will in every way--purpose, thought, and action].


Nothing-Nada here of "saints" interceding for us.
 

Fred J

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Water must be used by immersion, and the name of Jesus must be spoken for us to be buried with Christ and find remission of sins. The best and proper way to baptize is to say, I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins. Then you immerse them. Can’t go wrong.
That is scripture, am reporting, what can go wrong doing in faith and believe.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Nope-I oppose it.

Early Church Fathers on the Real Presence in the Eucharist

It’s always important to know the origins of our faith comes, especially in light of Protestant accusations that much of what we believe are merely Catholic “inventions”.

The Early Church Fathers (ECFs) of the first few centuries are our witnesses to the truth of God revealed to his Church. They - some of whom learned from the Apostles themselves - taught the reality of Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist from the beginning.

Ignatius of Antioch - “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr – “We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus.” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Clement of Alexandria - "Eat my flesh" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Cyril of Jerusalem – “The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

Augustine – “That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, that chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ.” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
Thn you're doing a pretty dismal boj debumkng it becaus you have laid out a wonderful case FOR the Eucharist.
 

BreadOfLife

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You have such a difficult time with comprehending the meaning of simple common words…

Gag does not mean vomit!
Wisdom does not mean vomit.
Vomit does not mean withholding wisdom.

GAG is a notice to try and contain your snarky accusing gaslighting behavior.
I said "Wisom" sarcastically.
Nonsense is what you
vomit out . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You were pointing to ….PEOPLE in Heaven…

REALLY…What scripture TAUGHT YOU…
Body’s and Souls…of earthly men GO TO HEAVEN?

Person…An individual human being consisting of body and soul. Person applies to living beings only.

God forms the body from dust of the earth. A dead body returns to dust of the earth…

Dead body’s do NOT rise up to Heaven.
And for SOME reason - YOU thinkk that the body is more important than the soul.

Moses "died" on earth - but he was conversing with Jesus at the Transfuguration.
Was Jesus tsalking to a rotting corpse - or to Moses??
 

BreadOfLife

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Typo error on my part re the Assyrian [Roman] Catholic Church--but then, everything is "Romanish"
That is an idiotic statement.
They are two different Liturgical Rites.
 

MatthewG

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Hello, I am not sure what the purpose of infant baptism is.

I do not know if even Jesus was dunked in water as a child, however, his mom and dad brought him to the temple to see the priest who, stated that his eyes had been laid upon the one promised to have come. In my own life, I wanted to make sure I would never go to hell so as a young adolescent my choice to get baptized three times, had come to fruition. Does this washing really save anyone? Cause to me, sin has been paid for. People have a fascinating time, in deciding if sin still exists or not, or is hooked up to our tab that all of us are going to end up paying for when we do finally pass on from this reality known as alive and breathing in earth.

Sin was paid for one time on the cross.
Sin is done. You can live unfaithfully - in sin by disbelieving God in general and deciding yourself to be god, (not to say that gods don't exist,) and many idols that have no mouth, or ears to hear, or sense to even think, to speak of.

It seems the only sin that truly remained on the people of Israel before the destruction ensued was making "The Mosasic Law" their God, as well as "Roman and Jewish Trades" in that time, made for "Rome to also be their God" in supplying them for a certain amount of time before they turned on them, and flames of fire came from the sky and down upon Israel, and over 1,000,000 people died, and some people were placed into prisons or made to be slaves. Though some people remained I believe al the whole blood line of the twelve was severed then, with the "book of life - genealogy" of their people being closed and done away with. That sin was called "unfaithfulness."
 
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BreadOfLife

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There IS “ONE” IN Heaven, who intercedes FOR the Living Believers ON EARTH…
JESUS…!


Rom 8:34
Heb 7:25
1 John 2:1

WHOM…does not intercede for the non-believers…
Jon 17:9

Dead body’s of men RETURN to the Earth.
They do NOT go to Heaven.

Souls and Spirits of men IN Heaven are not interceding for living men on Earth.
WRONG.

Aa I already showed you - the saints in Heaven (Rev. 5:8) and the Angels (Rev. 8:4-5) intercede as well.

Repeating your lies doesn't make them "true", Mr. Goebbels . . .
 
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