What is the purpose of infant baptism?

[BreadOfLife]

Prideful puff.
Uh…Pretty confidant the ORDER of introducing the Concept of “CHRIST’s CHURCH” was Jesus First, Jews Secondly, Gentiles Thirdly, and thereafter Catholics introducing their Naming and Rendition of their Catholic church.

WRONG.

Jesus revealed the idea of His Church to a relatively small number of people, who in turn revealed it to the WORLD.

These men were the first Catholics – Jew and Gentile.

False accusation.
I do not think that and why it is a fail on your part to try and think for others.

Hey – YOU’RE the one who said it . . .

Your irrelevant opinion.
I accredit…Jesus Himself and Jesus’ Appointed Apostles for the credit you attempt to personalize to the Catholic Church.

It was Jesus and His Apostles who built the Catholic Church.

Different topic…however, still disagree with you regarding that topic.

Then you disagree with Scripture.

Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in Heaven interceding on our behalf to God.

Gaslighting per your usual.
Your subling Protestants…LOL
Your gaslighting…LOL

Ahhh, yes – the old “gaslighting” ploy every time you don’t have a valid response . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

HOW do you do this?!
I just can't !!

An obstinate child sometimes needs a spanking . . .

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Let’s face it, quasi-Christian – you don’t know that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 because you ignore the words of Jesus Himself in Matt. 28L19.

Here's a clue:
When in doubt about an interpretation of what the Master said – go straight to the words of the Master Himself . . .

The "Jesus only baptism" is a man made tradition that began around 1914, that Truther is a master of.

Oneness Pentecostalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GodsGrace]

It's precisely this attitude that been responsible for the loss of MANY souls.
MY 2 cents don’t mean a thing when it’s in opposition to the truth . . .

In the Early Church, you don’t find many things written about accepted truths.
The ECFs usually wrote about things that were challenged by others. The Church doesn’t “invent’ doctrines. When the Church officially defined a doctrine, it was usually at a Council because of such a challenge to that particular belief.

For example – the belief in the Eucharist is a core belief of the Church. And, although you see Early Church writings about it – you don’t see a lot of documents defending this belief because it was so widely and generally accepted as truth.

Why are you so mad?

Let me tell you two things Bread:

1. You should learn to distinguish between your friends and your enemies.

2. I won't be taking any lessons from you....so if you think to write to me about something or other about the CC,
save your typing.

And....you're getting councils mixed up with writings.
The ECFs wrote PLENTY in terms of teachings.

AND,,,,I don't find anything there about the Assumption.

However, I will be reading up on the links 2 nice posters sent me.

 

[GodsGrace]

An obstinate child sometimes needs a spanking . . .

I don't think @Truther is obstinate.
He just plain hates the CC and YOU feed his hate.

As to obstinate.
I may be obstinate.

But I care not what you think about it.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's precisely this attitude that been responsible for the loss of MANY souls.
MY 2 cents don’t mean a thing when it’s in opposition to the truth . . .

In the Early Church, you don’t find many things written about accepted truths.
The ECFs usually wrote about things that were challenged by others. The Church doesn’t “invent’ doctrines. When the Church officially defined a doctrine, it was usually at a Council because of such a challenge to that particular belief.

For example – the belief in the Eucharist is a core belief of the Church. And, although you see Early Church writings about it – you don’t see a lot of documents defending this belief because it was so widely and generally accepted as truth.

BTW,
Contrary to what you believe as evidenced from the above first sentence....

doctrine does not save a person or cause their loss.


Belief and obedience to God saves a person.

 

[PGS11]

Its not a full baptism until the candidate reaches a age of understanding confirming their faith. Catholics call it confirmation where the person professes their faith in Jesus to the whole congregation and is confirmed at the age of understanding receiving the holy spirit..

 

[GodsGrace]

Its not a full baptism until the candidate reaches a age of understanding confirming their faith. Catholics call it confirmation where the person professes their faith in Jesus to the whole congregation and is confirmed at the age of understanding receiving the holy spirit..

Hi PGS
Where did you learn this?

 

[PGS11]

Hi PGS
Where did you learn this?

I'm a Catholic seen many had my own at 14.I find it funny all these people quit on faith alone and now their churches have all these ways to be saved.Some have Baptism Communion in some form sacred marriage and even healing oils all the things they rejected leaving the Catholic church.There are very few faith alone church left. Could the holy spirit be trying to tell them something.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm a Catholic seen many had my own at 14.

OK
But what I'm asking is where did you learn that baptism is partial.

IOW, baptism either has to be real or not.
It can't be partially real.

The Holy Spirit is received at baptism.
The Christian life is accepted at confirmation.

 

[Truther]

Let’s face it, quasi-Christian – you don’t know that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 because you ignore the words of Jesus Himself in Matt. 28L19.

Here's a clue:
When in doubt about an interpretation of what the Master said – go straight to the words of the Master Himself . . .

Oh, so you think that Jesus thought his name was son? How silly. Definitely Catholic thinking.

 

[Truther]

I see that you completely FAILED to answer the questions I asked.

ONE more time, son . . .
Can you tell me the difference between the “Catholic” Bible and YOUR Bible
WHEN the the “Catholic” Bible come into existence?

This should be easy for a "genius" like YOU . . .

My king James Bible was translated 400 years ago in England. Your Catholic Bible was translated. God knows when by God knows who. It is full of weird stuff. It even seems kind of mystical.

 

[Truther]

You're not young anymore.
Get with the program.

Which program? Rome‘s program?

 

[Truther]

I don't think @Truther is obstinate.
He just plain hates the CC and YOU feed his hate.

As to obstinate.
I may be obstinate.

But I care not what you think about it.

No, you misunderstand me. I don’t hate the Catholic Church. God hates them. God calls them the great whore. God hates the whore. They literally destroyed Christendom over the last 1700 years. They’re not finished either. This is why Rome will be uninhabitable for the entire thousand years of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Nothing will be there. No weddings no animals nothing. It will be the most destitute place on planet earth because God hates what the Roman Catholic Church did to his work. That city will be a memorial to the effects of sin masquerading as Christendom.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, you misunderstand me. I don’t hate the Catholic Church. God hates them. God calls them the great whore. God hates the whore. They literally destroyed Christendom over the last 1700 years. They’re not finished either. This is why Rome will be uninhabitable for the entire thousand years of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Nothing will be there. No weddings no animals nothing. It will be the most destitute place on planet earth because God hates what the Roman Catholic Church did to his work. That city will be a memorial to the effects of sin masquerading as Christendom.

Are you at all aware of the 2 Great Commandments Jesus left us with?

1. Love God
2. Love your neighbor as yourself

Do YOU love your neighbor?
Who IS your neighbor?

Hate is not a part of the Christian life.
You demonstrate hate.

And yet call yourself a Christian....
A Christian is a follower of the teachings of Christ.

Are You following His teachings?

 

[RedFan]

Interesting.
About the death idea.

BUT
Why can't God make an exception?
Don't you think God can do whatever He wishes to do?

I believe in the IC because it makes perfect sense and because the Early Fathers spoke to it.
HOW could God place His Son in the body of a person with the sin nature in full force?

I don't have a problem with believing that God can remove the sin nature from the Mother of God , if He feels it's the right thing to do.

I mean, is Jesus God or not?
IF He IS God....then how is He conceived in a sinful body?

The IC is fine and written of....

Surely God could have make an exception and not allow Mary to die physically. The question is, why should we believe He did so in Mary's case? If the answer is "because of her IC," I dissent. Her IC -- which I DO NOT CHALLENGE, by the way (at least not here) -- is just not a reason to believe in the Assumption. If physical death is indeed the consequence of original sin that the RCC insists it is, then what's good for the goose (Mary) is good for the gander (you and me), and elimination of original sin, whether from an IC or as a result of baptism and forgiveness, should result in NO PHYSICAL DEATH FOR ANY CHRISTIAN.

So, give me a different reason to believe in the Assumption.

 

[Fred J]

There was more than one bishop, and more than one church, in Rome simultaneously? That's news to me.

Read carefully, i wrote, it was the Bishop's' and from the church'es' in Rome.

When constantine became the sole emperor of the Roman empire, he summoned Bishops from churches in the whole of Rome, 318 of them.

From the establishment of the Roman church and others by the Apostles, Bishops were elected to be the 'overseers' of all the churches, likewise 'deacons' in subordinate.

Even before constanttine, when emperors were divided and ruled only certain regions in Rome from one another. There were only Bishops in the churches of Rome as 'overseers' over believers in the congregation.

cathoilc church pope and clergies establishment came after constantine's death, where they claim to be his successors. But on the contrary there's another sect at the same time divided from them as too were successors, the Greek orthodox church,

Like the Pharisees and Sadducees and other Jewish sect divisions, there were already divisions between the bishops and churches in Rome, for constantine to summon them.

After the canonization of a single text in his time, they were still divided as councils in the courts of constantine. Where a part of them in the last days of constantine's reign, managed to deceive and convince him in pagan worship mixed with Christianity. Since between both of them there's quite a significant similarity with one another in disguise..

Tricked, constantine called for a decree, that any church that does not comply to such worship shall be persecuted. Therefore he persecuted more Christians who did not comply, than unbelievers who did want to be Christians.

 

[Fred J]

The ancient 4th century Catholic Church was not what we see today. It was just a splinter group of bishops that gradually formed into the conglomerate that it is today. I use the term loosely.

Right, and check out my post #637, do you think we've got the same thing going on in the spirit, thanks?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Surely God could have make an exception and not allow Mary to die physically. The question is, why should we believe He did so in Mary's case? If the answer is "because of her IC," I dissent. Her IC -- which I DO NOT CHALLENGE, by the way (at least not here) -- is just not a reason to believe in the Assumption. If physical death is indeed the consequence of original sin that the RCC insists it is, then what's good for the goose (Mary) is good for the gander (you and me), and elimination of original sin, whether from an IC or as a result of baptism and forgiveness, should result in NO PHYSICAL DEATH FOR ANY CHRISTIAN.

So, give me a different reason to believe in the Assumption.

Here's my $.02.
Mary died physically. It is the common teaching in the ordinary Magisterium of the Church and in its liturgical worship that Our Lady underwent bodily death. This is the unanimous teaching of all the Fathers of the Church in the context of their teaching on her Assumption.

Jewish custom for a dead body is quite elaborate. I don't think the the Jews suspended burial customs after the Resurrection/Ascension. Why should they?

After a person dies, the eyes are closed, the body is laid on the floor and covered, and candles are lit next to the body. The body is never left alone until after burial, as a sign of respect. The people who sit with the dead body are called shomerim, from the root Shin-Mem-Resh, meaning “guards” or “keepers”.​

​

Respect for the dead body is a matter of paramount importance. For example, the shomerim may not eat, drink, or perform a commandment in the presence of the dead. To do so would be considered mocking the dead, because the dead can no longer do these things.​

Death and Mourning in Judaism

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

As for any funeral, those who were closest to the deceased are in attendance, so it's quite plausible the Apostles were summoned at the approach of Mary's death. The Bible doesn't demand proof-text for every single event. But it stands to reason the shomerim included some or all the Apostles.

Were the Apostles dishonest conniving liars who hid Mary's body to they could invent a doctrine? It takes a lot more faith to believe that stupidity than it does to believe the Assumption. The bodies of saints and martyrs were prized with obvious great care and respect, so where is Mary's body?

 

[Fred J]

Very close ideology and doctrine with every pagan sect out there, as am a pagan once.

According to the book of Revelation, the harlot seduces and sleep with all the religious sects and it's leaders from nations, in the religious arena. While also likewise seduces and sleep with the anti-Christ and his selected leaders assigned to nations, in the political arena.