What is the difference between a Jew and a Christian?

[WalterandDebbie]

Bs"d

What is the difference between a Jew and a Christian?

It is very simple: A Jew can count to two, and a Christian cannot.

A Jew knows that 1 + 1 = 2, and a Christian thinks that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

A Jew knows that a God the Father and a god the son is two (2!) gods. A Christian thinks that a God the Father and a god the son and a god the holy ghost is only one God.

When you can count to two you cannot be a polytheist and therefore not a Christian.

Good morning, Both are a child of God but have different beliefs.

Love, Walter

 

[Eliyahu613]

Good morning, Both are a child of God but have different beliefs.

Love, Walter

Bs"d

The nazi's were also children of God, but just with different believes.

I guess we can agree on the fact that some believes have to be eradicated.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Bs"d

The nazi's were also children of God, but just with different believes.

I guess we can agree on the fact that some believes have to be eradicated.

Very good point, Eliyahu. Good afternoon/evening!

There are millions and millions of wrong beliefs, as there are millions and millions of true facts or concepts.
We are not obliged to fight every single wrong belief that a human being can have, just because it is wrong.
At the same time, we are not obliged to know and understand every single true fact or concept, just because it is true.

To focus on which wrong idea to fight, and which right idea to acquire and embrace, we have to ponder several things.
I guess that, at least, these two ones:

1. The potential damage or benefit that idea is likely to exert on us and those who we value.
2. Our ability to refute that error or embrace that truth. By "our ability" I include not only our individual ability, but our ability to engage others or collaborate with others for that purpose.

If Jesus was not the Messiah, what is the potential damage of believing so, and the potential benefit of rejecting the idea?
If Jesus was the Messiah, what is the potential damage of rejecting the idea, and the potential benefit of accepting it?

 

[The Learner]

Bs"d

The Tanach, for the Christians the OT, teaches very clearly that there is only ONE God, and that is Y-H-W-H.

So if anybody wants to say that JC was God, or divine, than he has no choice than to say that Christ was Y-H-W-H, because there simply is no other God than Y-H-W-H.
But then you encounter the following problems:

If anybody says JC is the same as Y-H-W-H then you are stuck with the fact that Y-H-W-H is his own son and at the same time his own father.
Then you are stuck with the fact that when JC prays to his father, Y-H-W-H is praying to himself.

Luke 22:41-42: “and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
So here Y-H-W-H has a different will than himself???

Even in heaven JC is subjected to the Father, according to Corinthians 15:28, Matthew 20:23, Fillipens 2:9, and others.
So Y-H-W-H is subjected to himself???

When Christ was hanging at the cross, he cried out: “My God, my God, why did you forsake me?” Matthew 27:46
So Y-H-W-H forsook himself???

Collossians 3:1; “set your hearts on things above, where JC is seated at the right hand of God.”
Y-H-W-H is sitting at his own right hand???

Y-H-W-H died at the cross, slaughtered by his own creatures?
If so, who resurrected him?

I do not see a problem. Trinity is defined as one G_d with three persons. The Father Son thing has to do with Marriage of Christ to the Church in the end. Acts 1 the reason only the Father knows when the Second Coming will happen is because the Father of the Son determines when the final part of a marriage will happen.

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity by Robert Bowman, Jr.

Robert Bowman, Jr. :: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Matthias]

I do not see a problem. Trinity is defined as one G_d with three persons. The Father Son thing has to do with Marriage of Christ to the Church in the end. Acts 1 the reason only the Father knows when the Second Coming will happen is because the Father of the Son determines when the final part of a marriage will happen.

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity by Robert Bowman, Jr.

Robert Bowman, Jr. :: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity

www.blueletterbible.org

Here’s a problem: the topic is banned.

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

The Tanach, for the Christians the OT, teaches very clearly that there is only ONE God, and that is Y-H-W-H.

So if anybody wants to say that JC was God, or divine, than he has no choice than to say that Christ was Y-H-W-H, because there simply is no other God than Y-H-W-H.
But then you encounter the following problems:

If anybody says JC is the same as Y-H-W-H then you are stuck with the fact that Y-H-W-H is his own son and at the same time his own father.
Then you are stuck with the fact that when JC prays to his father, Y-H-W-H is praying to himself.

Luke 22:41-42: “and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
So here Y-H-W-H has a different will than himself???

Even in heaven JC is subjected to the Father, according to Corinthians 15:28, Matthew 20:23, Fillipens 2:9, and others.
So Y-H-W-H is subjected to himself???

When Christ was hanging at the cross, he cried out: “My God, my God, why did you forsake me?” Matthew 27:46
So Y-H-W-H forsook himself???

Collossians 3:1; “set your hearts on things above, where JC is seated at the right hand of God.”
Y-H-W-H is sitting at his own right hand???

Y-H-W-H died at the cross, slaughtered by his own creatures?
If so, who resurrected him?

You’ve been away for a while. You’re discussing that which by Board policy is forbidden to be discussed. You’re flirting with having your thread closed, possibly even deleted. This is just a friendly reminder.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

The nazi's were also children of God, but just with different believes.

I guess we can agree on the fact that some believes have to be eradicated.

I am no more a child of God then I am made and not begotten. Let that sink in.

 

[Pierac]

Still seeing people struggling with the Hebrew word elohim.

A word (and not the only one in Hebrew) which is always plural in form. No exceptions. However, that doesn’t mean that there is plurality in the word.

There is no plurality in the Messiah’s elohim -> the elohim of Israel.

Elohim - always plural in form.

English translations of elohim: plural -> gods; singular -> god or God.

Yahweh is the one true elohim -> always singular; never plural.

Yahweh -> Eng. God (singular), not gods (plural).

There is no God besides Yahweh. There is no plurality in the one true God.

Yea... you see what others Don't!!!

Elohim has been a very confusing word for many people. The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron. Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal.

The Hebrew language has many examples of words which are plural but whose meaning is singular. In Genesis 23, Abraham's wife Sarah dies. The Hebrew text says, "the lives [plural] of Sarah were 127 years" (v. 1). Even the plural verb that accompanies the pronoun does not mean Sarah lived multiple lives. The Hebrews never taught reincarnation or plurality of personhood. Another example of this kind of anomaly in the Hebrew language is found in Genesis 43. After Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). This is another instance where in the Hebrew language the plural noun functions as a singular noun with a singular meaning, unless, of course, Joseph was a multi-faced human being! The same occurs in Genesis 16:8 where Hagar flees from "the faces" (plural) of her mistress Sarah. These are "anomalies" of the Hebrew language that are clearly understood by Hebrew scholars who rightly translate to a singular form in English.


The better explanation is that the Hebrews used a form of speech called "the plural of majesty." Put simply this means that someone whose position was warrant of dignity was spoken in this way as giving a sign of honor. The plural acted as a means of intensification:

Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.

Whenever the word elohim refers to the God of Israel the Septuagint uses the singular and not the plural. From Genesis 1:1 consistently right through, this holds true. The Hebrews who translated their own scriptures into Greek simply had no idea that their God could be more than one individual, or a multiple personal Being! This is true too when we come to the New Testament. The New Testament nowhere hints at a plurality in the meaning of elohim when it reproduces references to the One God as ho theos, the One God.

 

[Eliyahu613]

You’ve been away for a while. You’re discussing that which by Board policy is forbidden to be discussed. You’re flirting with having your thread closed, possibly even deleted. This is just a friendly reminder.

Bs"d

Thanks, totally forgotten about that.

I think I must have somewhere a message board floating around, maybe we can there discus the forbidden subjects.

 

[Nephesh]

Bs"d

What is the difference between a Jew and a Christian?

It is very simple: A Jew can count to two, and a Christian cannot.

A Jew knows that 1 + 1 = 2, and a Christian thinks that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

A Jew knows that a God the Father and a god the son is two (2!) gods. A Christian thinks that a God the Father and a god the son and a god the holy ghost is only one God.

When you can count to two you cannot be a polytheist and therefore not a Christian.

Here's evidence that there is one God with a triniform nature and a single unity:

• "Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan, coming to John to be baptized ... After He was baptized, Jesus (the Son) came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) descending as a dove and settling on Him, and behold, a voice from the heavens (the Father) said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:13-17)

• Jesus instructed the twelve apostles to baptize in the name [singular form] of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). It would've been blasphemous to baptize in any other name other than God.

• Jesus said He's God on multiple occasions in various ways. Even the Pharisees, Jewish men, understood that He did, and denied Him saying, "we will stone you for blasphemy for making yourself God."

 

[Eliyahu613]

Here's evudence that there is one God with a triniform nature and a single unity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit):

• "Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan, coming to John to be baptized ... After He was baptized, Jesus (the Son) came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) descending as a dove and settling on Him, and behold, a voice from the heavens (the Father) said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:13-17)

• The apostles were told to baptize in the name [singular form] of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). It would've been blasphemous to baptize in any other name other than God.

• Jesus referred to Himself as God on multiple occasions in various ways. Even the Pharisees, Jewish men, understood that He did, and yet they denied Him saying, "we will stone you for blasphemy for making yourself God."

Bs"d

I think we can agree on the fact that the NT brings us a new god, JC, that no one had heard of before.

What are we to do with that?

God tells us what to do in that case:

“If a prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder which he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams; for Y-H-W-H your God is testing you, to know whether you love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after Y-H-W-H your God and fear him, and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and cleave to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to make you leave the way in which Y-H-W-H your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him; 9 but you shall kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and never again do any such wickedness as this among you."

Deut 13

 

[Nephesh]

I think we can agree on the fact that the NT brings us a new god, JC, that no one had heard of before.

I don't agree. So, you believe the stories and people in the four Gospels are fiction?

 

[Eliyahu613]

I don't agree.

Bs"d

In that case, where is JC to be found in the Hebrew Bible?

So, you believe the stories and people in the four Gospels are fiction?

I don't know, and it doesn't matter. If it is fiction, we shouldn't believe it.

If there really was a carpenter going round claiming he was God, we should also not believe him. Because there is only one God who is one, and that is Y-H-W-H. And besides Him there is no god.

And it is clearly stated that God is not a man.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Begotten not made is the story of human reproduction, not the Incarnation.

 

[Nephesh]

In that case, where is JC to be found in the Hebrew Bible?

You won't find the name "Jesus" in the Hebrew Bible, but you'll find the name of God which is Who He is, which is why I disagree that He hasn't been heard of before.

...there is only one God who is one, and that is Y-H-W-H. And besides Him there is no god.

You are correct, I agree. What you really disagree with, without realizing, is that there's one God with a triniform nature and single unity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If there really was a carpenter going round claiming he was God, we should also not believe him.

To prove that He was God, Jesus of Nazareth cured the blind, deaf, mute, lame, cast out demons, raised the dead to life, including Himself, etc. Have you seen or heard of anyone else who claimed to be God and peformed those deeds that only God can do?

And it is clearly stated that God is not a man.

God is eternal, and thus has no beginning or end. As I mentioned before, there's one God with a triniform nature and single nature: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Son, is as the apostle John describes, "the Word made flesh" and says that "the Word was God." The Word of God (God) was begotten by the Holy Spirit (God) in the womb of the virgin Mary, thus Incarnating Himself as man, out of obedience to the Father (God). God became man to be the perfect sacrifice on behalf of humanity. Only God could redeem man in body and spirit.

 

[Eliyahu613]

You are correct, I agree. What you really disagree with, without realizing, is that there's one God with a triniform nature and single unity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Bs"d

There is no "God with a triniform nature". That concept is totally made up and nowhere to be found in the Bible. It is a bad attempt to cover up the polytheism of Christianity.

What the Bible teaches is that God is ONE: God is one

And one is not the same as three, and not the same as three in one.

 

[Nephesh]

What the Bible teaches is that God is ONE: God is one

And one is not the same as three, and not the same as three in one.

Again, you are correct that there's one God, I agree. I'm talking about the one God's triniform nature and single unity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), which, again, doesn't mean three gods.

That concept is totally made up and nowhere to be found in the Bible

There being one God with a triniform nature and single unity is in the Hebrew Scriptures: The Trinity in the Book of Hebrews

 

[Matthias]

Again, you are correct that there's one God, I agree. I'm talking about the one God's triniform nature and single unity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), which, again, doesn't mean three gods.



There being one God with a triniform nature and single unity is in the Hebrew Scriptures: The Trinity in the Book of Hebrews

@Eliyahu613 knows that the topic is banned from being discussed anywhere on Christianity Board. I don’t know whether you know that it is or not. The thread will be shut down if it continues. It might be shut down even if it ceases right now.

I’m sorry. I don’t agree with the policy but I have no ability to change it.

 

[Nephesh]

@Eliyahu613 knows that the topic is banned from being discussed anywhere on Christianity Board. I don’t know whether you know that it is or not. The thread will be shut down if it continues. It might be shut down even if it ceases right now.

I’m sorry. I don’t agree with the policy but I have no ability to change it.

Thank you. I will stop discussing it. I don't agree with the policy either.

 

[Nephesh]

It seems wrong to deny Christians the ability to discuss any aspect of their religion that contributed to their wanting to be a Christian in the first place. My understanding of the mod's reasons for banning discussion of the Holy Trinity is to prevent uncivil discourse. However, when the early Christians were verbally ridiculed and savagely murdered for what they believe, which included their belief in the Holy Trinity, they didn't let it stop them from teaching and discussing their beliefs. Therefore, should it not be considered an insult to their memory to ban discussing any Christian Truth, including the Holy Trinity, that they lived and died defending?