I certainly get tuning you out because you keep taking rabbit trails down some pet project of yours.
WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT
- Thread starter Doug
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I think John wanted to be part of the church in the New Covenant age. So every baptism that we have today, he would have wanted.
Good! Put me on mute and keep reading as you do, missing the subtleties of wording. Goodbye
Acts 2:37 (KJV) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38-41 (KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Hebrews 10:22 (KJV) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Water baptism is NOT how our guilty heart is cleansed. It is HEARING the Gospel of Christ that convicts the guilty heart, then repenting of our sins in the name of Jesus Christ whosoever gladly received His word being baptized in water have assurance of faith. Obedient faith without wavering being baptized in the name of Christ is outward evidence that we have come out of the kingdom of man, and entered the Kingdom of God through Christ's Spirit within us.
Hebrews 10:23-24 (KJV) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Being baptized in water is the sign Christ gave His people to set themselves apart from the nations of the world. In the same way God gave the Old Covenant nation of Israel the outward sign of circumcision that set the nation apart from the rest of the world. Neither baptism with water, nor circumcision can save us. We are eternally saved according to grace through faith in Christ ALONE! Whosoever hears and believes in Him HAVE eternal life and shall NEVER perish.
Hebrews 10:24-25 (KJV) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Unfortunately, you are in disagreement with the scriptures because that's not what they say. 1 Peter 3:20-1, baptism doth now save us. Saul also was told to "arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins" Acts 22:16. And Jesus said as recorded in Mk 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
Subject Heading:- 'What did Jesus mean to be born of water and of The Spirit?'
'Jesus answered and said unto him, (John the Baptist)
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'
(Joh 3:3-6)
* Ref: reply #71.
Hello @Doug,
I agree with the content of your OP: It was Israel which was the subject of John 3, and Israel that needed to be 'born again'. Yet there is a requirement that all be born from above (ie., of the Spirit) isn't there? For, 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit'(Joh 3:6): and 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God' (1 Cor. 15:50).
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'Jesus answered and said unto him, (John the Baptist)
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God.
- Nicodemus saith unto Him,
How can a man be born when he is old?
can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'
(Joh 3:3-6)
* Ref: reply #71.
Hello @Doug,
I agree with the content of your OP: It was Israel which was the subject of John 3, and Israel that needed to be 'born again'. Yet there is a requirement that all be born from above (ie., of the Spirit) isn't there? For, 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit'(Joh 3:6): and 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God' (1 Cor. 15:50).
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @Doug
* Paul does use the words, 'born after the Spirit', and surely you would agree that the Holy Spirit is God Himself?
* John refers to being, 'born of God', several times as you can see. Peter just once:-
(Gal 4:29) 'But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
(Jn.3:6) 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'
(Jn.3:8) 'The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.'
(1Jn.2:29) If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
(1Jn.3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jn.4:7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
(1Jn.5:1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is
begotten of Him.
(1Jn.5:4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
(1Jn,5:18 ) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
(1Peter1:23) 'Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.'
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* Paul does use the words, 'born after the Spirit', and surely you would agree that the Holy Spirit is God Himself?
* John refers to being, 'born of God', several times as you can see. Peter just once:-
(Gal 4:29) 'But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
(Jn.3:6) 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'
(Jn.3:8) 'The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.'
(1Jn.2:29) If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
(1Jn.3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jn.4:7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
(1Jn.5:1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is
begotten of Him.
(1Jn.5:4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
(1Jn,5:18 ) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
(1Peter1:23) 'Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.'
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Yes I get it but its talking about Isaac and Ishmeal
God promised Abraham and Sarah would conceive....Isaac was promised by the Spirit but was still born physically
'Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh
persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now.'
(Gal 4:28-29)
Hello @Doug,
Yes, I see. Isaac was a child of promise, born miraculously to Sarah, who was long dead as to procreation. It was Isaac through whom Abraham's seed would be called, and the promise of Genesis 3:15 fulfilled, in the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul, and his brethren, were the offspring of Isaac, though Jacob, by birth, in the flesh: therefore were children of promise themselves; but had also been born of the Spirit, through the gift of God, by the grace-by-faith salvation that came through the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ. So they had been doubly blessed.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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