WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT

[Verily]

Ephesians 1, see says the same thing, believing in Christ == sealed by the Spirit for salvation, that is the gospel by which you are saved

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The praise of His glory is that God mercifully saves us by faith, and not by righteous works, and this is according to His will for us.

Eph 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I get the impression that John's baptism is understood as a way to justify themselves, but it's not, it says right here its the opposite.

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God,
being baptized with the baptism of John.

 

[Scott Downey]

Which is why I said, "And these received the Holy Ghost before being water baptized"

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Similarly here it shows

Acts 18:24-25 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

What I am looking at is Jesus coming by water and blood (not by water only) and what this signifies (as it relates to the three that bear witness in the earth) and this by comparing between places where others might be putting their thumbs down on this specifically (which may not be the same way I might).

Just out of sheer curiosity which baptism do you believe John the baptist (the water baptizer) referred to (who was in himself filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb) have need of from Jesus?

Because it says that the Pharisees which rejected the counsel of God against themselves (not being baptized by John) heard (in John 4:1-2) that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Did the man (sent by God) filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb (sent to baptize with water) so that Messiah be manifest to Israel need to be baptized with another baptism? If so, which one was he referring to?

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

The baptism of repentance. John came to prepare the way for the Lord Christ, and set their hearts in the right place. It was not anything to do with salvation in Christ, who baptizes us with the Holy Spirt and not water.

John the Baptist Prepares the Way​

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance [b]for the remission of sins. 5 Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

6 Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 11, Jesus tells us about who John was, and he was like the greatest OT prophet. But Christ is all about the New Covenant, the Old Covenant ministry ends with John the Baptist


7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:

‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

16 “But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, 17 and saying:

‘We played the flute for you,
And you did not dance;
We mourned to you,
And you did not [b]lament.’
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a [c]winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her [d]children.”

 

[Verily]

The baptism of repentance. John came to prepare the way for the Lord Christ, the set their hearts in the right place. It was not anything to do with salvation in Christ

John the Baptist Prepares the Way​

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance [b]for the remission of sins. 5 Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

6 Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Not sure why you are posting these, I am aware of them, not sure what you are applying these to as far as my question though.

 

[Verily]

Matthew 11, Jesus tells us about who John was, and he was like the greatest OT prophet. But Christ is all about the New Covenant, the Old Covenant ministry ends with John the Baptist


7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:

‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

16 “But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, 17 and saying:

‘We played the flute for you,
And you did not dance;
We mourned to you,
And you did not [b]lament.’
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a [c]winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her [d]children.”

Thanks Scott Downey, I do not have any question about these scriptures though.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus says John was Elijah who was to come, note v 5-6!

Malachi 4

The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

 

[Verily]

Jesus says John was Elijah who was to come, note v 5-6!

Malachi 4

The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

I think there are a ton of scriptures that can be posted except for what I am looking for.

 

[Verily]

Jesus says John was Elijah who was to come, note v 5-6!

Malachi 4

The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

Although, this might be for another thread, but this one (the one highlighted) is rarely talked about.

 

[Nancy]

When you are born again by the Spirit, you are Born through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

This is what Christ means for water and spirit, and it has nothing to do with being physically born of a woman as that is flesh and not spirit

Being born again is of the Spirit and not anything to do with this earth, it is a heavenly transformation, it is not water baptism done by a man. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into His church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


Titus 3

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Hi Scott,
Just a quick question and comment. If we are to be born again, we would have to have been born already, once (through the flesh or, from your mother which yes, it is of the flesh -John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." So, you do not believe that the 1st time we were born (in sin) means anything here?

Comment- Also, I see nothing in the discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus concerning even the word itself; baptism or, water baptism which is not of the flesh, but natural birth does.

Thanks!

 

[DJT_47]

And these received the Holy Ghost before being water baptized

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Which could even answer my question since John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb but John indicated he had need to be baptized by Jesus

You are misunderstanding that scripture. Why did the Holy Ghost fall on Cornelius? Why also, on the only other time this happened in this manner, did the Holy Ghost fall on the 11 apostles in Acts 2? It was a sign from God. In Acts 2, it was a sign from God to convince the Jews onbthe day of Pentecost which resulted in the church starting in Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and likewise, it was a sign from God as recorded in Acts 10, that the Gentiles were also to be included, which was first started in Caesarea, resulting in the 1st Gentile church. Instead first instance, the Jews believed, baptized, and added to the body of Christ. And in Caesarea, Cornelius and his, were likewise baptized and added to the body of Christ. Mo other time dud the Holy Spirit fall unilaterally on anyone.

 

[Verily]

You are misunderstanding that scripture. Why did the Holy Ghost fall on Cornelius? Why also, on the only other time this happened in this manner, did the Holy Ghost fall on the 11 apostles in Acts 2? It was a sign from God. In Acts 2, it was a sign from God to convince the Jews onbthe day of Pentecost which resulted in the church starting in Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and likewise, it was a sign from God as recorded in Acts 10, that the Gentiles were also to be included, which was first started in Caesarea, resulting in the 1st Gentile church. Instead first instance, the Jews believed, baptized, and added to the body of Christ. And in Caesarea, Cornelius and his, were likewise baptized and added to the body of Christ. Mo other time dud the Holy Spirit fall unilaterally on anyone.

What am I not understanding?

 

[DJT_47]

Water baptism does not give you the Holy Spirit, God does, and why does God indwell believers?
The primary reason is they are sealed for salvation. And that we are then His people having been given new life and a new spirit which God creates in us. God transforms our entire spirit to become spiritually alive to God.

Water baptism by a man is a sign, an outer witness that we are of His church of believers, cause God already did His work in us.
There are people who get water baptized who later on do not believe, so you know it is a ceremonial sign only of our inward change.

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, he that believes not shall be damned.
But that baptism is performed by the Spirit baptizing us into His church. Of course, unbelievers have not been baptized by the Spirit into His church

Believing in Christ is salvation so the only way all the things Jesus said about being believing and saved is like I wrote above

John 5 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

v21 also proves God's work inside you is that you believe in Christ so that you are saved.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

There are many meanings to baptism, those who believe, the Spirit has baptized them into His church, those who do not believe have not been baptized by the Spirit into the church.

Just for clarity, baptism is not a "outer witness" of anything to anyone. That's not its purpose. The conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 happened in front of no one except Philip.

 

[DJT_47]

What am I not understanding?

I may have taken your comment incorrectly. I assumed you meant that this, the falling of the Holy Ghost on Cornelius in Acts 10, was evidence of negating the need for water baptism. Yes, no? If yes, you are wrong as I explained. If no, then I apologize and we're more likely in sync.

 

[Verily]

I may have taken your comment incorrectly. I assumed you meant that this, the falling of the Holy Ghost on Cornelius in Acts 10, was evidence of negating the need for water baptism. Yes, no? If yes, you are wrong as I explained. If no, then I apologize and we're more likely in sync.

No, and no problem thats okay.

I am just acknowledging that its shown both ways, the receiving of the Holy Ghost after being baptized by water and also before being baptized by water.

I have a few questions which I had already expressed (which I do try to take one at a time) just to see where others are coming from without desiring to contend with them over them. It will just keep coming back to this because I am trying to catch the three that bear witness in the earth, and why in that specific order (and how baptism could play into the significance) since John was specifically sent to do so in order that Christ be made manifest to Israel in that role.

And not only that, the rejection of Johns water baptism by the Pharisees. Why was that so significant if it was nothing when those (like harlots and publicans) would enter the Kingdom before they did? Since it was Jesus himself who brought into the picture both water and Spirit as it relates to Kingdom itself (with Nicodemus, who was of the Pharisees) who are those who rejected Johns baptism.

Those sort of things

 

[Scott Downey]

Just for clarity, baptism is not a "outer witness" of anything to anyone. That's not its purpose. The conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 happened in front of no one except Philip.

Well then Phillip was the witness. How many witnesses are there in every baptism you read of in scripture or have seen yourself? It only takes one person, as we cannot baptize ourselves.
The other witness are principalities and powers, angels spiritual powers in heavenly places and the departed in the lord.

Heb 12
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ephesians 3

Purpose of the Mystery​

8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things [c]through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the [d]manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the [e]principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

2 Kings 6:16-18
New King James Version
16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, “Strike this people, I pray, with blindness.” And He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

They are watching you.

I think there are more witnesses than there are people on the earth.

 

[DJT_47]

No, and no problem thats okay.

I am just acknowledging that its shown both ways, the receiving of the Holy Ghost after being baptized by water and also before being baptized by water.

I have a few questions which I had already expressed (which I do try to take one at a time) just to see where others are coming from without desiring to contend with them over them. It will just keep coming back to this because I am trying to catch the three that bear witness in the earth, and why in that specific order (and how baptism could play into the significance) since John was specifically sent to do so in order that Christ be made manifest to Israel in that role.

And not only that, the rejection of Johns water baptism by the Pharisees. Why was that so significant if it was nothing when those (like harlots and publicans) would enter the Kingdom before they did? Since it was Jesus himself who brought into the picture both water and Spirit as it relates to Kingdom itself (with Nicodemus, who was of the Pharisees) who are those who rejected Johns baptism.

Those sort of things

Once again for clarity, most people make the mistake regarding your first comment wherein said

" I am just acknowledging that its shown both ways, the receiving of the Holy Ghost after being baptized by water and also before being baptized by water."

You need to read the related scriptures more carefully since your statement is a bit flawed in its logic.

In Acts 2:38, it says "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

It says "gift", singular, not gifts, meaning the indwelling of the Holy Spirit itself and not a manifestation of the Spirit, one of the gifts of the Spirit, one of those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10; big difference. The various gifts of the Spirit, like tongues, which happened in Acts 10 when the Spirit fell, and likewise in Acts 2. You'll also find, upon careful study, that the gifts or manifestations of the Spirit, were part of the power from on high promised to the 11 apostles by Jesus as recorded in Luke 24:49, and the manifestations were only enabled by the apostles via the laying on of their hands.

 

[DJT_47]

Well then Phillip was the witness. How many witnesses are there in every baptism you read of in scripture or have seen yourself? It only takes one person, as we cannot baptize ourselves.
The other witness are principalities and powers, angels spiritual powers in heavenly places and the departed in the lord.

Heb 12
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ephesians 3

Purpose of the Mystery​

8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things [c]through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the [d]manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the [e]principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

2 Kings 6:16-18
New King James Version
16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, “Strike this people, I pray, with blindness.” And He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

They are watching you.

I think there are more witnesses than there are people on the earth.

Purpose is the question: what was or is the purpose of baptism, and it's not to show anyone anything. A public display is NOT it's purpose.

 

[Ritajanice]

We are Born Again by the Spirit, our purpose is to glorify the power of God , we were chosen and predestined to be Born Again, we were chosen by God to use as he pleases, also we are being conformed into Jesus image..and we will bear the Spirit fruit.

To be Born Of The Spirit is a Living Spirit birth, which cannot be explained..
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God...

He testifies Of God and Jesus when our spirit is Born Again.

A human birth is the first birth...the Spirit birth is a supernatural Living divine heart birth, when our spirit comes alive in the Spirit of Christ.....the natural man could never understand the spiritual birth, as it’s supernatural ...from God.

To be baptised in water, is declaring out with the old life in with the new life, water baptism does not forgive our sins, only the Spirit of God can forgive sins...

Our spirit is Born Again by Gods Living Witness/ testimony..on the earth today, my spirit was Born Again 33 yrs ago...I was water baptised a few months later as a new babe....we also grow in spiritual maturity as a Born Again as we are spirit children of the most high...we are his and we’re bought for a price..his Name was Jesus.

John 3:3-8​

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King James Version​

​

​

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[rwb]

Purpose is the question: what was or is the purpose of baptism, and it's not to show anyone anything. A public display is NOT it's purpose.

The purpose for being baptized in water cannot be a display of salvation, because many are baptized in water who have never turned to Christ for eternal life. I believe water baptism signifies obedience for outward membership within the covenant body of Christ in the same way circumcision of Old signified belonging to the covenant body. Just as circumcision was required under the Old Covenant for anyone who wanted to be part of the covenant people of Old, so too, water baptism is a requirement given us by Christ as a way of knowing those who are part of the body of Christ in this world outwardly. This is NOT what saves man, only baptism through the Holy Spirit can change the heart inwardly, and that is how we both know (see) and enter the Kingdom of God spiritually.

 

[Scott Downey]

We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, not by a man's work of righteousness