Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?

[Verily]

Same as before. My decision last night was the correct one. Now you should be able to see that it was.

I do get bored with all the technicalities of letters and wresting over words, and capital letters and dissecting things to the point of the problem being unreccognizable. But I thought after stepping away from you on this that I would try again and see if you could come down to my level and speak more simply with me on things.

I could still be missing it, but I am only seeing upper case and lower case issues in the English as of now, but I cannot see how it becomes some sort of big deal since the Hebrew neglects them altogether.

I will leave off of it, thought I would try to see if I could better understand you, but hey, I was wrong, I tried.

 

[Matthias]

Adonai is no more adoni than a moose is a mouse.

* A humorous line from a chorus I composed around twenty years ago to instruct young children, and (by accident - unintentionally, but effectively) adults with the heart of a child. *

P.S.

I thought about possibly using a visual for the children but I found out the first time they sang it that it was unnecessary.



They initially had a difficult time pronouncing the Hebrew words, but they learned quickly. They also had a difficult time singing it without laughing. They never did get over that. I‘m resigned to it being a power of delight in the lesson. To this day, they remember. And it brings a smile of joy (sometimes accompanied with laughter) to their faces.

 

[Verily]

Okay, I had to turn to Braves AI search engine (yeah I actually did that) how did it do? Can anyone say?

Adonai in Scripture​

Based on the search results provided, here’s a summary:

• Adonai is a Hebrew word that means “Lord” or “Master”, and it is used to address human lords or kings, as well as God.
• In Psalm 110:1, the Hebrew text reads “ADNY” (without vowels), which is traditionally understood as “Adoni” (my lord) rather than “Adonai” (the Lord God).
• The Massoretes, Jewish scholars responsible for the vowel pointing system, indicated that the correct reading is “Adoni” (my lord) instead of “Adonai” (the Lord God).
• The Septuagint (LXX), an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, confirms this interpretation, translating “ADNY” as “to kurio mou” (to my lord) rather than “to the Lord” (Adonai).
• The majority of scholars and translations agree that Psalm 110:1 uses the phrase “Adoni” (my lord), not “Adonai” (the Lord God).

I would ignore the part highlighted in red because The LORD (Jehovah) in Hebrew is also translated to kyrios wherever the word is for LORD /Jehovah, or Lord/ Adoni or Lord/Adonai, or lords/'adown. Its all the same in the Greek making no real distinction at all.

Hebrew in KJV mine shows

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord ('adown), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus quotes that verse here, the Greek words just do not differentiate between the above, showing both are "kyrios"

Mat 22:44 The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord, (kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Jesus quotes it here

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD (kyrios) said to my Lord, (kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus quotes it here

Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord,(kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand,

The apostles quote it here

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord (kyrios) , Sit thou on my right hand,

But in case we are confused by translation issues, capital letters after referring to the original Psalm they say

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God who David calls, "my Lord"

As does Elizebeth

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of "my Lord" should come to me?

So AI put out,

• Adonai is a Hebrew word that means “Lord” or “Master”, and it is used to address human lords or kings, as well as God.

Jesus said,

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

John 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Can't tell anything from that seeing Greek is stuck on kyrios whichever word Lord is used. But I think the point is that this Lord washes the feet of his subjects. And to figure out whether to capitalize his title just seems to be majoring on the minors.

 

[Matthias]

Okay, I had to turn to Braves AI search engine (yeah I actually did that) how did it do? Can anyone say?

Yes. It gave you muddled results.

Adonai in Scripture​

Based on the search results provided, here’s a summary:

• Adonai is a Hebrew word that means “Lord” or “Master”, and it is used to address human lords or kings, as well as God.
• In Psalm 110:1, the Hebrew text reads “ADNY” (without vowels), which is traditionally understood as “Adoni” (my lord) rather than “Adonai” (the Lord God).
• The Massoretes, Jewish scholars responsible for the vowel pointing system, indicated that the correct reading is “Adoni” (my lord) instead of “Adonai” (the Lord God).
• The Septuagint (LXX), an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, confirms this interpretation, translating “ADNY” as “to kurio mou” (to my lord) rather than “to the Lord” (Adonai).
• The majority of scholars and translations agree that Psalm 110:1 uses the phrase “Adoni” (my lord), not “Adonai” (the Lord God).

I would ignore the part highlighted in red because The LORD (Jehovah) in Hebrew is also translated to kyrios wherever the word is for LORD /Jehovah, or Lord/ Adoni or Lord/Adonai, or lords/'adown. Its all the same in the Greek making no real distinction at all.

This is good information mixed with bad information. And the red you would ignore is precisely what is needed to understand what is written. The Greek supports the Hebrew!

Hebrew in KJV mine shows

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord ('adown), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Adon is the root word for both adonai and adoni. The Hebrew word is adoni; not adon, nor adonai. (See again the red that you are ignoring.)

Jesus quotes that verse here, the Greek words just do not differentiate between the above, showing both are "kyrios"

Mat 22:44 The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord, (kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Kyrios is generic. The title can be applied to any superior person. It isn’t a title reserved for God only. We mustn’t forget what we learned and know from Hebrew, which nails it down tight, when looking at the Greek, which doesn’t. Don’t forget what we learned and know from the Old Testament when we move to the New Testament.

Jesus quotes it here

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD (kyrios) said to my Lord, (kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus quotes it here

Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord,(kyrios) Sit thou on my right hand,

The apostles quote it here

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD (kyrios) said unto my Lord (kyrios) , Sit thou on my right hand,

The apostles didn’t write “my Lord”, they wrote “my lord”. The apostles don’t contradict the Hebrew.

But in case we are confused by translation issues, capital letters after referring to the original Psalm they say

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God who David calls, "my Lord"

As does Elizebeth

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of "my Lord" should come to me?

Keep the Hebrew in mind and it’s easy. Jesus is “my lord”, not ”my Lord”.

It would be a nonsensical reading of Psalm 110:1 to say that Yahweh is speaking prophetically to my Yahweh. “My Yahweh” isn’t a phrase that occurs anywhere in the Hebrew Bible.

So AI put out,

• Adonai is a Hebrew word that means “Lord” or “Master”, and it is used to address human lords or kings, as well as God.

Any standard Hebrew Lexicon would suffice to correct the AI statement. If you know or can contact someone who is knowledgeable in Hebrew grammar, you should ask them.

Jesus said,

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

John 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Can't tell anything from that seeing Greek is stuck on kyrios whichever word Lord is used. But I think the point is that this Lord washes the feet of his subjects. And to figure out whether to capitalize his title just seems to be majoring on the minors.

Jesus is the suffering servant of his God. He is the lord Messiah. It’s also fine to say that he is the Lord’s Messiah, as scripture does.

There are two lords in Psalm 110:1; two persons. The first is Yahweh, the Lord God. The second is (we find out in the NT) Jesus, the lord Messiah.

The Lord God is not the lord Messiah; nor is the lord Messiah the Lord God.

 

[Verily]

Yes. It gave you muddled results.

It always does

This is good information mixed with bad information. And the red you would ignore is precisely what is needed to understand what is written. The Greek supports the Hebrew!

Even you said below that, "Kyrios is generic". Theres not a single LORD,Lord,lord written in the Greek that is not Kyrios, I cannot see how it somehow supports the Hebrew.

Adon is the root word for both adonai and adoni. The Hebrew word is adoni; not adon, nor adonai. (See again the red that you are ignoring.)

So what? I am ignoring the red for the reasons stated above, the Greek makes no distinctions whatsoever.

Kyrios is generic.

Exactly.

The title can be applied to any superior person. It isn’t a title reserved for God only. We mustn’t forget what we learned and know from Hebrew, which nails it down tight, when looking at the Greek, which doesn’t.

That was MY point, again, Kyrios is generic which is why I said ignore the red and highlighted what to pay attention to which wa the use of MY Lord throughout, ignoring the Greek altogether.

The apostles didn’t write “my Lord”, they wrote “my lord”.

AND... We are right back to the real issue which is capitalization

Keep the Hebrew in mind and it’s easy. Jesus is “my lord”, not ”my Lord”.

You said the Hebrew does not use capitals so how can I keep in mind what you tell me to forget about basically?

It would be a nonsensical reading of Psalm 110:1 to say that Yahweh is speaking prophetically to my Yahweh. “My Yahweh” isn’t a phrase that occurs anywhere in the Hebrew Bible.

I just see,

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord ('adown), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Any standard Hebrew Lexicon would suffice to correct the AI statement. If you know or can contact someone who is knowledgeable in Hebrew grammar, you should ask them.

I think I will go back to not caring about the experts seeing the scribes and experts in all this stuff miss Jesus Christ coming by a mile. So much for their expertise.

Where is the scribe?

LOL!

Jesus is the suffering servant of his God. He is the lord Messiah. It’s also fine to say that he is the Lord’s Messiah, as scripture does.

I do.

There are two lords in Psalm 110:1; two persons. The first is Yahweh, the Lord God. The second is (we find out in the NT) Jesus, the lord Messiah.

The NT says,

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

They fulfilled their own scriptures OT in condemning him

The Lord God is not the lord Messiah, nor is the lord Messiah the Lord God.

Just go with O God

Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Psalm 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

That works for His God and be good enough for us.

 

[Matthias]

I would like to draw my readers’ attention to Psalm 110:1 in the Complete Jewish Bible. It contains an error which would jump off the page to anyone who is able to read Hebrew and should even to those who cannot.

”A psalm of David: ADONAI says to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies into a footstool for you.”

Can the reader spot the error? If not, allow me to show you.

Remember that we have learned the upper case L is used for Adonai, not for adoni.

”A psalm of David: …”

Let’s pause here. This is fine. It’s the very next word where the CJB first misleads unwary readers, though unintentionally.

”ADONAI …” -> the first “mistake”. The CJB is a Jewish Bible. The Hebrew text does not say Adonai. It says the God’s proper, personal name. When Jews read the tetragrammaton they replace it with Adonai.

I don’t know why anyone would want to do this but, supposing someone wishes to cause a disturbance, to go out of his or her way to offend a Jew. Here’s how. Read the text aloud without making the substitution that the Jew has made. Pronounce the personal name of God, which the Jew will not do out of reverence for ha shem, the name.

”… says to my Lord, …”

The Hebrew text does not use the substitute for God’s personal and proper name here. Why doesn’t it? It doesn’t because God’s personal and proper name isn’t written in the text at this location. Yahweh / Adonai isn’t speaking to Yahweh / Adonai, and the Jew can see that he isn’t in the Hebrew text.

Look at the CJB one more time. It says Adonai is speaking “to my Lord”; it doesn’t say Adonai is speaking “to my Adonai.” It should jump at you.

If Adonai really is speaking to (the nonsensical) “my Adonai[/i] then CJB would have translated it that way.

What is the deception ? Adonai is the deity title. Adoni is the no-deity title. CJB inserts the deity title, substitutes it, for the non-deity title that is actually in the text.

If you use the CJB in conversation with a knowledgeable Jew, you will be laughed to scorn. You will be asking him to believe something which he - and everyone else who can read Hebrew - knows the text doesn’t say.

So why does CJB do this? That’s also easy. It’s translator bias.

Shout out to the Catholic translators (and others) who report the Hebrew accurately. Shame on the translators who don’t.

 

[Matthias]

I just see,

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord ('adown), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Why don’t you see The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my the LORD (Jehovah)?

 

[Matthias]

I would like to draw my readers’ attention to Psalm 110:1 in the Complete Jewish Bible. It contains an error which would jump off the page to anyone who is able to read Hebrew and should even to those who cannot.

”A psalm of David: ADONAI says to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies into a footstool for you.”

Can the reader spot the error? If not, allow me to show you.

Remember that we have learned the upper case L is used for Adonai, not for adoni.

”A psalm of David: …”

Let’s pause here. This is fine. It’s the very next word where the CJB first misleads unwary readers, though unintentionally.

”ADONAI …” -> the first “mistake”. The CJB is a Jewish Bible. The Hebrew text does not say Adonai. It says the God’s proper, personal name. When Jews read the tetragrammaton they replace it with Adonai.

I don’t know why anyone would want to do this but, supposing someone wishes to cause a disturbance, to go out of his or her way to offend a Jew. Here’s how. Read the text aloud without making the substitution that the Jew has made. Pronounce the personal name of God, which the Jew will not do out of reverence for ha shem, the name.

”… says to my Lord, …”

The Hebrew text does not use the substitute for God’s personal and proper name here. Why doesn’t it? It doesn’t because God’s personal and proper name isn’t written in the text at this location. Yahweh / Adonai isn’t speaking to Yahweh / Adonai, and the Jew can see that he isn’t in the Hebrew text.

Look at the CJB one more time. It says Adonai is speaking “to my Lord”; it doesn’t say Adonai is speaking “to my Adonai.” It should jump at you.

If Adonai really is speaking to (the nonsensical) “my Adonai[/i] then CJB would have translated it that way.

What is the deception ? Adonai is the deity title. Adoni is the no-deity title. CJB inserts the deity title, substitutes it, for the non-deity title that is actually in the text.

If you use the CJB in conversation with a knowledgeable Jew, you will be laughed to scorn. You will be asking him to believe something which he - and everyone else who can read Hebrew - knows the text doesn’t say.

So why does CJB do this? That’s also easy. It’s translator bias.

Shout out to the Catholic translators (and others) who report the Hebrew accurately. Shame on the translators who don’t.

CJB is a good translation of most texts. However, when it comes to arguably the most crucial Messianic text in the Hebrew Bible, it's a bait and switch.

The translator has, without warrant, inserted his personal belief into the text in place of what the text actually says and tries to pass it off as legitimate. It’s clumsy and it’s foolish. It harms the cause of the Messiah.

It’s child’s play to spot it. A Jewish elementary school age child trained in the Hebrew language would be well enough equipped to send this man and his translation home in disgrace.

Better, infinitely better, to ask the Jew to read the Catholic NABRE translation of Psalm 110:1. Now you would have an opportunity to have a conversation with the Jew. You’re speaking from a translation which both you and the Jew knows is the truth about what the verse says.

 

[Verily]

Why don’t you see The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my the LORD (Jehovah)?

Are you now saying that is what it says?

Why am I supposed to see this?

 

[Verily]

I would like to draw my readers’ attention to Psalm 110:1 in the Complete Jewish Bible. It contains an error which would jump off the page to anyone who is able to read Hebrew and should even to those who cannot.

”A psalm of David: ADONAI says to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies into a footstool for you.”

Can the reader spot the error? If not, allow me to show you.

Remember that we have learned the upper case L is used for Adonai, not for adoni.

”A psalm of David: …”

Let’s pause here. This is fine. It’s the very next word where the CJB first misleads unwary readers, though unintentionally.

”ADONAI …” -> the first “mistake”. The CJB is a Jewish Bible. The Hebrew text does not say Adonai. It says the God’s proper, personal name. When Jews read the tetragrammaton they replace it with Adonai.

I don’t know why anyone would want to do this but, supposing someone wishes to cause a disturbance, to go out of his or her way to offend a Jew. Here’s how. Read the text aloud without making the substitution that the Jew has made. Pronounce the personal name of God, which the Jew will not do out of reverence for ha shem, the name.

”… says to my Lord, …”

The Hebrew text does not use the substitute for God’s personal and proper name here. Why doesn’t it? It doesn’t because God’s personal and proper name isn’t written in the text at this location. Yahweh / Adonai isn’t speaking to Yahweh / Adonai, and the Jew can see that he isn’t in the Hebrew text.

Look at the CJB one more time. It says Adonai is speaking “to my Lord”; it doesn’t say Adonai is speaking “to my Adonai.” It should jump at you.

If Adonai really is speaking to (the nonsensical) “my Adonai[/i] then CJB would have translated it that way.

What is the deception ? Adonai is the deity title. Adoni is the no-deity title. CJB inserts the deity title, substitutes it, for the non-deity title that is actually in the text.

If you use the CJB in conversation with a knowledgeable Jew, you will be laughed to scorn. You will be asking him to believe something which he - and everyone else who can read Hebrew - knows the text doesn’t say.

So why does CJB do this? That’s also easy. It’s translator bias.

Shout out to the Catholic translators (and others) who report the Hebrew accurately. Shame on the translators who don’t.

I cant ever figure out what you are saying.

 

[Matthias]

Are you now saying that is what it says?

Absolutely not. I’ve written post after post after post explaining why no one should think that’s what it says.

Why am I supposed to see this?

You don’t see, you aren’t supposed to see it, and if you do see it you’ve been duped.

 

[Matthias]

I cant ever figure out what you are saying.

Were you able to understand my post (#982) about a moose is not a mouse?

 

[Verily]

Were you able to understand my post (#982) about a moose is not a mouse?

Really? I have always thought a moose was a mouse.

 

[Verily]

You don’t see, you aren’t supposed to see it, and if you do see it you’ve been duped.

So you are saying, The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my the LORD (Jehovah) is correct?

Well, thats news to me.

 

[Matthias]

Really? I have always thought a moose was a mouse.

Have you always also thought then that Adonai is adoni.

 

[Verily]

Have you always also thought then that Adonai is adoni.

Where is this now?

 

[Matthias]

So you are saying, The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my the LORD (Jehovah) is correct?

You’re a troll.

Well, thats news to me.

It would be fake news to the world.

 

[Verily]

Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Psalm 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

That is what?

 

[Verily]

You’re a troll.

For quoting your words to me from post # 989?

That would be fake news to the world.

I think you are getting a little frazzled, just take a rest

 

[Verily]

Why don’t you see The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my the LORD (Jehovah)?

This is you correct?