We are judged by works, not by faith

[Grailhunter]

In prophesy, like the verse given! He had already returned if you notice?



Look at the tribulation, most believers are killed, that'll do er! Who did that (as well as ignore and not help believers of the tribulation) - it was the people alive in the tribulation that Jesus is dealing with right after the tribulation.


It is precisely after Jesus returns which is precisely after the tribulation. Those folks of course did attack and mass murder believers! Many of those cry out in Revelation before Jesus returned begging for vengeance!


Nor was it meant to discount or had anything to do with 'people in need'. It had to do with a certain time. Certain unsaved people being judged. People who claimed they were good and right.

Very ignorant and evil words. Obviously you won't be one who claims to be perfect here! No one needs wonder what and who motivates you.

The only thing you are right about is that judgment will come on Judgment Day.

But the whole story is about how Christ looks at it when we help people in need or we do not help people in need. It is one of the few examples where Christ guarantees Hell for those that are heartless.
You are a prime example of how some people twist the scriptures to suit themselves.

 

[dad]

The only thing you are right about is that judgment will come on Judgment Day.

If we need to check in with you on all we are right about, I'll let you know. Try not to overrate your opinion

But the whole story is about how Christ looks at it when we help people in need or we do not help people in need.

False. The clear context is after Jesus returns and one would hope you know when that is and who lives at that time on earth. The regime of the AntiChrist who kills all who won't worship him (if he can). So when the sheep and goats are separated at the time He returns, He has something to say to each of them. To the wicked who thought they were good, but not saved and did not know Him He says depart. The moral of that story is not social works can save you!! He commends the people of that time who were saved for how they helped other believers.

It is one of the few examples where Christ guarantees Hell for those that are heartless.

Not true. It is a specific time and people. Those who are saved have Him in their heart. That means they are not heartless.

You are a prime example of how some people twist the scriptures to suit themselves.

Don't blame your abysmal lack of understanding and prophesy and the heart of God and salvation on other posters.

 

[Grailhunter]

If we need to check in with you on all we are right about, I'll let you know. Try not to overrate your opinion

False. The clear context is after Jesus returns and one would hope you know when that is and who lives at that time on earth. The regime of the AntiChrist who kills all who won't worship him (if he can). So when the sheep and goats are separated at the time He returns, He has something to say to each of them. To the wicked who thought they were good, but not saved and did not know Him He says depart. The moral of that story is not social works can save you!! He commends the people of that time who were saved for how they helped other believers.

Not true. It is a specific time and people. Those who are saved have Him in their heart. That means they are not heartless.

Don't blame your abysmal lack of understanding and prophesy and the heart of God and salvation on other posters.

All I can tell you is that you are seriously wrong...pretty much at every level. It is obvious you do not understand what Christianity is about. These verses have nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Christianity is not a club you sign up for and go on about your business. If it does not change a person they are not saved. And if your character is such that you can not accept these verses for what they are you are probably lost.
If you do not have compassion for fellow Christians you do not have the spirit of Christ in you and in the end He will tell you that He never knew you.

 

[MatthewG]

That wasnt an answer @dad.

If you, go by the spirit can the spirit of christ Jesus in you ever sin?

The flesh is a slave to sin, but christians in Christ are freed from sin, as they abide in Him.

Did Ghada ever say he was better than anyone here?

 

[dad]

All I can tell you is that you are seriously wrong...pretty much at every level.

One of us is.

It is obvious you do not understand what Christianity is about.

It is about Jesus. His love, His gift of salvation. His future forever with us, etc Not sure what you thought it was. We aren't mind readers here you would need to post it rather than allude to it.

These verses have nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Not sure what you are missing about after Jesus returns and deals with sheep and goats. Not my problem

Christianity is not a club you sign up for and go on about your business.

Someone said that? It is about Him in us and His business. Try to be honest.

If it does not change a person they are not saved.

He changes us. Maybe not in a way that some like. But some people like to pretend that unless others change as they like, that no changes could happen.

And if your character is such that you can not accept these verses for what they are you are probably lost.

I am found actually. And the verses in Matthew as clearly outlined were after Jesus returned. You not comprehending the heart of the matter seems to have left you flailing with demonic accusations.

If you do not have compassion for fellow Christians you do not have the spirit of Christ in you and in the end He will tell you that He never knew you.

There are lots of verses about loving others and giving etc. The verses in Mat were about Jesus having returned to earth and talking to people there at the end of the tribulation. Of course we can somewhat apply that to the present, in that we are to love one another and etc. The bigger issue is knowing Him, and having His love in us. The unsaved from the tribulation time obviously did not.

 

[dad]

That wasnt an answer @dad.

If you, go by the spirit can the spirit of christ Jesus in you ever sin?

Did Peter sin? Or would you prefer another more technical name for mistakes and what most people would think of as sins?

The flesh is a slave to sin, but christians in Christ are freed from sin, as they abide in Him.

We are freed from death, but not free from mistakes and blowing it at times. He corrects us. If you were perfect there would be no need.

Did Ghada ever say he was better than anyone here?

He made out like he was without sin and pure and walking in perfection.

 

[MatthewG]

still not an answer @dad

You can say what you want its fine. I dont love any less or look down on you.

 

[Grailhunter]

One of us is.


It is about Jesus. His love, His gift of salvation. His future forever with us, etc Not sure what you thought it was. We aren't mind readers here you would need to post it rather than allude to it.


Not sure what you are missing about after Jesus returns and deals with sheep and goats. Not my problem

Someone said that? It is about Him in us and His business. Try to be honest.

He changes us. Maybe not in a way that some like. But some people like to pretend that unless others change as they like, that no changes could happen.



I am found actually. And the verses in Matthew as clearly outlined were after Jesus returned. You not comprehending the heart of the matter seems to have left you flailing with demonic accusations.

There are lots of verses about loving others and giving etc. The verses in Mat were about Jesus having returned to earth and talking to people there at the end of the tribulation. Of course we can somewhat apply that to the present, in that we are to love one another and etc. The bigger issue is knowing Him, and having His love in us. The unsaved from the tribulation time obviously did not.

Again you are wrong.
Put the question is do you know Him.
It seem that you are fighting the spirit of Christianity as whole.
You want to give Christ lip service.......He will know the difference.
See ya....would not want to be ya.

 

[MatthewG]

@dad I use to have the same problem. It's a good question though to ask yourself.

If God pours his holy spirit in a persons heart, and if the spirit of Christ is in that person.

And a persons abides in Christ, and allows Christ to come through, does the Lord Yeshua's Spirit sin when it comes through?

You're right about by our flesh it does sin, however there is the people whom have become born again, and they walk by faith, and if they choose too, also walk in Spirit.

They will sin less, as they will desire the heavenly way about going with things which abiding in the Lord. It doesnt mean they wont mess up when they are mean to their neighbor, or show no mercy to someone, if they get caught up in their flesh.

Paul wrote saying, to that people in Galatia,
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Paul wrote saying, to the saints in Rome,
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Paul also wrote to the people in Galatia who were returning again to sacrifice to pay for their sin by the fleshly ways and not in the Spirit, saying,

Life by the Spirit​

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.​

All the best, in love, and may God guide to truth.
Matthew

 

[dad]

still not an answer @dad

You can say what you want its fine. I dont love any less or look down on you.

You tell us. Do you ever sin?

 

[MatthewG]

@dad tell me do you ever sin?

Look at the law of Moses and its apparent.

But Christ through me doesn't sin, when I walk by the spirit.

Love you,
Matthew

 

[dad]

Again you are wrong.
Put the question is do you know Him.
It seem that you are fighting the spirit of Christianity as whole.
You want to give Christ lip service.......He will know the difference.
See ya....would not want to be ya.

Easy to say others are wrong. It is another thing to show support for your position.

For lurkers, who might actually care about truth and facts, here is what Mat 25 was talking about

Matthew 25:31

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 25:32

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Matthew 25:33

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 25:34

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

So the ones gathered are from that time. They have been separated already.

The focus is for that people and time. To the unsaved He points out how they did not know Him, and were not good to believers. (they refused water and food etc to them)
That does not mean that if people today work in a soup kitchen that they earn salvation! Nor does it mean that if those unsaved goats had of been kinder to believers that this would have saved them. Only believing in Jesus saves anyone. However, hating God's people is a mark of the unsaved. It is worthy of punishment. Just as we saw that the sheep were good to other believers. That does not mean that hospitality saves us. It means that with Him in us, naturally we will be good to His people. The works identified the saved and the unsaved, but neither were saved by the works. They were commended, or rebuked by their works. In both cases they were already saved or damned.

 

[dad]

@dad tell me do you ever sin?

Look at the law of Moses and its apparent.

But Christ through me doesn't sin, when I walk by the spirit.

Love you,
Matthew

Obviously Jesus don't sin. When some posters make out like they walk all the time in perfection and purity adn that if they messed up they would not be saved any more, that merits correction

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for finally answering, @dad. Jesus does not sin. Therefore the spirit of Christ in a person doesn't sin - when they abide in Christ, as Yeshua spoke in John 15, and walk in spirit, while walking by faith. I didn't see anyone speaking about the other issue you have, so Idk if they have or not. People who walk away from faith though is a different story, that is a deliverance issue, because those of faith come to experience newness of life, however they can also walk away going back to the carnal ways, rather than heavenly spiritual ways.

 

[dad]

Thank you for finally answering, @dad. Jesus does not sin. Therefore the spirit of Christ in a person doesn't sin - when they abide in Christ

Right, but there are two involved there. Jesus and us. Are you suggesting that you have attained a state of perfection whereby your every work and move and thought is , perfect like God? No correction ever needed? No feeling a little sorry for something where you somehow maybe were a little unlike God?

as Yeshua spoke in John 15, and walk in spirit, while walking by faith.

John 15 talks about abiding in the Vine. That does not mean sinless purity and perfection instantly. It means He will chastise and correct you like all sons. We are being made perfect, but apparently it takes longer in some than others

People who walk away from faith though is a different story, that is a deliverance issue, because those of faith come to experience newness of life, however they can also walk away going back to the carnal ways, rather than heavenly spiritual ways.

If He never leaves us or forsakes us, we are delivered forever. If some need correction so that they experience more newness of life, well, they will get it. You make it sound like someone (like ourselves) can pluck us away from the Father's hand.

 

[MatthewG]

People grow from being babes in Christ, into mature Christians.

Adopted as Children, and children are not expected to have everything down, but as they grow an mature, they will need less correcting.

The Father can correct by the holy spirit in that person - notifying they done wrong they will desire to correct those things, such as flipping off a car because they made you mad for going to slow, or perhaps you say some mean things to someone out of anger and you really did not mean it. Or you cheated on your spouse when you know you shouldn't have, or whatever the case is, God only knows.

No one said anyone is ever perfect in their flesh, but in spirit, they will make righteousness choices and that is all credit to Jesus Christ, if they walk by the spirit and deny the flesh (there is ample amount of evidence in the New testament for this).

Jesus himself talked about people falling away from faith, please just read below, unless Jesus is a liar.

The common response to this phrase Jesus says is "They were not saved anyway so it doesn't matter" which is contrary to having love for your neighbor to encourage them and remind them when you are lead by the spirit, to continue in hope and in faith and not to harden their heart by the spirit of disbelief of course people must make their own choices.

Matthew 13 Jesus spoke telling his Apostles about the Parable of the Sower saying,
20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

While God will adopt any and all who come to his son in faith, in his death, burial, and resurrection, a human can choose to nullify this adoption if they so choose to. It's where they close out their relationship with him.

 

[Ghada]

There is an inconsistency about some Christians that teach the doctrine of separating our saving faith from our works.

Some Christians teaching it remain faithful to it. They preach that once we are saved forever by our saving faith, no works ever have anything to do with it, nor can our works ever have anything to say about it. They teach that our saving faith can never be judged by our works. As saved believers, our works can never be judged with condemnation by God nor man. Through saving faith alone, we have no more condemnation by works.

However, not all of them are faithful to the doctrine and practice something else. They teach our faith is dependent upon our works, because our faith can be judged by works. They teach a Christian's confessed faith in Jesus Christ can be judged as saving faith or not by our works. At some point in the Christian confession, they want to draw a line in the sand, and begin to judge one another as being saved or not based upon our works. And they further say God has already done so by seeing the heart first. So both God and man judges a confessing Christian faith by our works.

Now, once again, I have no problem with that, since it is the Bible confirmed by Jesus (Matthew 18:17), Paul (1 Cor 5:11), and all of James 2.

And so, the inconsistency is obvious. If none of our works in this life truly have anything to do with being saved by our faith in Christ alone, then no works we do can ever judge our faith and salvation.

If our faith and salvation can be judged by our works, then our faith and salvation becomes dependent upon our works. If our saving faith can be objectively judged by our works with Jesus and His church body, then our saving faith can never be separated from our works.

If any Christian ever judges another confessing believer as not having saving faith, because of their works, then that Christian does not believe in being saved and justified by saving faith alone, without works having anything to do with it in sight of God and man.

I've seen some true believers in the doctrine of saving faith without works, that argue with the hypocrites that also try to judge any confessing Christian's faith by their works.

Some even go so far as to judge our salvation based upon whether we doctrinally agree with them or not. That of course is unbiblical zealotry. Afterall, if we judge other Christians unsaved, simply because they disagree with our doctrine, then how can we ever be corrected when needed?

Such zealots believe their doctrinal teaching is perfect. This is while condemning anyone preaching Christian perfection in Christ. Plainly they have no problem with overlooking a certain amount of sinning in life as being normal Christian living, but if anyone dares disagree with their perfect doctrine? There's gonna be hell to pay for it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Easy to say others are wrong. It is another thing to show support for your position.

Ya you are right
Here ya go---->Matthew 25:31-46
Do I need to send in a 3rd grader to explain it to you.....read it slowly.

You keep changing the topic because you do not like the meaning of these scriptures.
I am not going to let you change the topic.
It is easy to connect scriptures to other scriptures indirectly because the scriptures are all connected.

That does not mean a set of scriptures do not have a specific meaning.
You are dodging the meaning of this set of scriptures.
I know the kind....lukewarm Christians.

The lazy man's approach to Christianity. Over the centuries Christianity has come up with list of man-made sins. When you make up sins you are making up Laws....just from the other direction. To the point that your rightness as a Christian and your rightness with God is about what you do not do, instead of what you do. So that a person that lives in a closet can be the best Christian. When you should be exhausting yourself doing what is right.

 

[dad]

Ya you are right
Here ya go---->Matthew 25:31-46
Do I need to send in a 3rd grader to explain it to you.....read it slowly.

You keep changing the topic because you do not like the meaning of these scriptures.
I am not going to let you change the topic.
It is easy to connect scriptures to other scriptures indirectly because the scriptures are all connected.

That does not mean a set of scriptures do not have a specific meaning.
You are dodging the meaning of this set of scriptures.
I know the kind....lukewarm Christians.

The lazy man's approach to Christianity. Over the centuries Christianity has come up with list of man-made sins. When you make up sins you are making up Laws....just from the other direction. To the point that your rightness as a Christian and your rightness with God is about what you do not do, instead of what you do. So that a person that lives in a closet can be the best Christian. When you should be exhausting yourself doing what is right.

Nice verse. I already discussed that a few times and the context. Not sure what else you think is in there. Since your post says diddly squat about it, I guess no one will know what you think it means, if anything different. The context was after Jesus returned to earth in the future and separated the unsaved from the saved, and said a few words to each of them before sending them to their fate. So that was talking to a specific people in a specific time. A time unlike any other that ever was or will be.
Perhaps you are unaware of prophesy? Who do you think will be there in that judgment of nations when Jesus returns? Did you think all the dead of all ages?? The final great judgment is not till a thousand years after this, when the dead of all ages arise. So we might ask ourselves who the wicked unsaved people being judged here are. Did you think it was people from the 1800's? Old testament? Maybe someone could clear that up.
One scholar says this

"
Who Will Be Judged?

The following people will be judged when Christ returns.


1. Those Living From The Nation Israel

2. The Gentile Nations

3. The Old Testament Saints

4. The Tribulation Saints"

Whom Will Christ Judge at His Second Coming?

When Jesus returns to the earth at His Second Coming, He will return in judgment. Paul says. And to give relief to the afflicted as well as to us, when the

www.blueletterbible.org

Another important point is that it is nations He gathers.
Matthew 25:32

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Some nations, then, persecuted and imprisoned His people. Which nations are gathered? Ancient ones? It seems to me it will be the nations that exist then.

Nations are judged by how they treat us! The saved are rewarded by how they treat other believers.

 

[Ghada]

Faith without works is dead. That means we are judged by BOTH...not one or the other.

If you have faith but no works you are dead. If you have works but no faith in Him you are dead. If you have faith AND works....Halleluiah!

So simple in the Bible. Paul rebukes works without faith, and James rebukes faith without works. We can also include works by another faith than Jesus Christ. There are many faithful religions in their works, but only the pure religion of the Spirit of Christ dwelling in the heart is judged as just and justified with God.

The Bible teaches God judges us by our works, and James 2 shows that includes our faith. Our works judge our own faith, so that no one should be decieved about the faith we have. That includes God, ourselves, and other men.