Was Mary sinless?

[Alanforchrist]

That's ALL you have?? You can't PROVE me wrong?
Funny how you anti-Catholics are full of inane one-liners but when it comes to evidence - you're all silent.

I don't have to prove you wrong, The Bible and the Greek does that.
I don't have to prove myself right, The Bible and the Greek do that, And I don't twist the scriptures or the Greek.
You won't find any of the catholic doctrines in the Bible, accept the basic birth, life, Ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus.

That's probably because there WERE no churches in the First Century. The Church was being persecuted so they met in homes.
Mary definitely attended Catholic Mass.

If there was no Churches in the first century, How come James was the Pastor of the Church at Jerusalem, Timothy was the Pastor of the Ephesians And Titus was the Pastor of the Church of the Cretian at Nicopolis.
Mary wouldn't go to mass, She was a Christian, Not a catholic.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

I don't have to prove you wrong, The Bible and the Greek does that.
I don't have to prove myself right, The Bible and the Greek do that, And I don't twist the scriptures or the Greek.
You won't find any of the catholic doctrines in the Bible, accept the basic birth, life, Ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus.


If there was no Churches in the first century, How come James was the Pastor of the Church at Jerusalem, Timothy was the Pastor of the Ephesians And Titus was the Pastor of the Church of the Cretian at Nicopolis.
Mary wouldn't go to mass, She was a Christian, Not a catholic.

Ummm, I have already show you and others - ad nauseam - that the Bible and the Greek use the word "Kecharitomene", which is a perfect passive participle of Charitoo. I can't help it if you don't understand simple linguistics. And, as I have pointed out, does the word "Swim" always apply in a sentence about swimming? How about Swam? Swimmig? Swum?
Your failure to understand simple linguistic rules is your downfall here - so don't blame the Catholic Church for your ignorance.

As for "churches" (buildings) in the first century - WHY would you assume that James was pastor in a building called a "church"?? They met in each other's HOMES (Acts 2:46, Acts 16:40).

Again, don't blame me or the Church for your historical and Scriptural ignorance.

Oh that changes everything....he he hee!

What do you have against Christians? Why are you here? Do you want to cause strife?

What do I have against Christians??
That's a pretty silly question, considering the fact that I AM a Christian. In fact Catholics were the very FIRST Christians. All of your disjointed splinter groups that you all belong to didn't come until MUCH later.

 

[Foreigner]

What do I have against Christians??
That's a pretty silly question, considering the fact that I AM a Christian. In fact Catholics were the very FIRST Christians. All of your disjointed splinter groups that you all belong to didn't come until MUCH later.

-- Actually, Jews became the very first Christians.

The creation of the Catholic belief system, which in many ways run contrary to scripture, came much later.



.

 

[Episkopos]

Ummm, I have already show you and others - ad nauseam - that the Bible and the Greek use the word "Kecharitomene", which is a perfect passive participle of Charitoo. I can't help it if you don't understand simple linguistics. And, as I have pointed out, does the word "Swim" always apply in a sentence about swimming? How about Swam? Swimmig? Swum?
Your failure to understand simple linguistic rules is your downfall here - so don't blame the Catholic Church for your ignorance.

As for "churches" (buildings) in the first century - WHY would you assume that James was pastor in a building called a "church"?? They met in each other's HOMES (Acts 2:46, Acts 16:40).

Again, don't blame me or the Church for your historical and Scriptural ignorance.



What do I have against Christians??
That's a pretty silly question, considering the fact that I AM a Christian. In fact Catholics were the very FIRST Christians. All of your disjointed splinter groups that you all belong to didn't come until MUCH later.

It is for you to prove that early Christians observed Catholicism. The early Christians were Jews. If you were truly a Christian you could not also belong to a sect that persecutes Christians.

People all over the world still meet the way the Christians did back then. The RC's have been persecuting these groups for thousands of years. But now they are decline and will soon be overthrown through God's judgment.

 

[Mungo]

It is for you to prove that early Christians observed Catholicism. The early Christians were Jews. If you were truly a Christian you could not also belong to a sect that persecutes Christians.

People all over the world still meet the way the Christians did back then. The RC's have been persecuting these groups for thousands of years. But now they are decline and will soon be overthrown through God's judgment.

The Catholic Church is growing. Your prophecy will prove to be false.

 

[Episkopos]

The Catholic Church is growing. Your prophecy will prove to be false.

We will all see!

 

[ChurchAuthority]

-- Actually, Jews became the very first Christians.

The creation of the Catholic belief system, which in many ways run contrary to scripture, came much later.

You're right about ONE thing: the Jew WERE the first Catholics.

As for your other remark, please tell me whan the "Catholic belief system" was created. show me the document, decree or declaration that established this system that is "contrary" to Scripture.

Funny thing - I have issued this challenge on this and MANY other forums over the last 10 years and NOBODY has been able to provide the answer.

 

[Episkopos]

You're right about ONE thing: the Jew WERE the first Catholics.

As for your other remark, please tell me whan the "Catholic belief system" was created. show me the document, decree or declaration that established this system that is "contrary" to Scripture.

Funny thing - I have issued this challenge on this and MANY other forums over the last 10 years and NOBODY has been able to provide the answer.

The Catholic system came from men who were seduced by worldly power...the true Christians were killed off to make way for the clerics to run the show! The devil has been ruling since then! It is the devil that rules the masses...

 

[Mungo]

The Catholic system came from men who were seduced by worldly power...the true Christians were killed off to make way for the clerics to run the show! The devil has been ruling since then! It is the devil that rules the masses...

Now what was it you said to me in another thread?

Ah yes:

"What evidence? Christians have the bible. Whether people use it aright of course is another debate...but it is the only common link we have to the exact will of God.

These forums are based on the bible. But people come here with their side books....that pretend to properly interpret the word...but refuse any truth that comes against a stance they feel comfortable with!

This is just an immature way to play...it says nothing for the argument.

Let Catholics speak from the bible and build their case from there.

Use a biblical way to approach any testimony...becoming all things to all men!!!! Then we can discuss!"

Perhaps I am misunderstanding and it's only Catholics who have to provide evidence for their claims

 

[Episkopos]

Now what was it you said to me in another thread?

Ah yes:

"What evidence? Christians have the bible. Whether people use it aright of course is another debate...but it is the only common link we have to the exact will of God.

These forums are based on the bible. But people come here with their side books....that pretend to properly interpret the word...but refuse any truth that comes against a stance they feel comfortable with!

This is just an immature way to play...it says nothing for the argument.

Let Catholics speak from the bible and build their case from there.

Use a biblical way to approach any testimony...becoming all things to all men!!!! Then we can discuss!"

Reason only works with those willing to discuss in good faith! What would you do to a women who calls herself church authority that seeks to just sow strife? Can you call a priest???

 

[Mungo]

Reason only works with those willing to discuss in good faith! What would you do to a women who calls herself church authority that seeks to just sow strife? Can you call a priest???

And a rant like:
The Catholic system came from men who were seduced by worldly power...the true Christians were killed off to make way for the clerics to run the show! The devil has been ruling since then! It is the devil that rules the masses...
is from someone willing to discuss things in good faith is it?

Doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

It is for you to prove that early Christians observed Catholicism. The early Christians were Jews. If you were truly a Christian you could not also belong to a sect that persecutes Christians.

People all over the world still meet the way the Christians did back then. The RC's have been persecuting these groups for thousands of years. But now they are decline and will soon be overthrown through God's judgment.

Individuals within the Church have persecuted heretics over the centuries and this was not right. However - they were heretics. It was the hersesies that they were attemptig to quell.

As for your myth that many sects around the world still meet the way the Early Christians did, you're dead wrong. First of all - is they model themselves after the Early Church - where is the Eucharist, hmmm? the Early Church was dedicated to the Holy Eucharist and worshipped it as the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was not just a symbol to them and many of them went willingly to horrific deaths because they were accused of cannibalism by their pagan Roman persecutors? Did you know that? I didn't think so.
The so-called "Reformers" ALSO believed in the Eucharist.

As for the Early Church -
The Early Church baptized infants.
The Early Church prayed for the dead.
The Early Church was led by Priests and Bishops.
The Early Church believed in Church Authority.
The Early Church taught about Mary's Perpetual Virginity - and so did the "Reformers".
The Early Church believed in Mary's Immaculate Conception - and so did many of the "Reformers".
The Early Church taught about Purgatory.
The Early Church believed in Apostolic Succession.

The Early Church didn't have "altar calls".
The Early Church didn't believe in OSAS.
The Early Church didn't believe in Eternal Security.
The Early Church didn't believe in Sola Scriptura.
The Early Church didn't believe in Sola Fide.
The Early Church didn't believe in a pre-Tribulation "Rapture".

Finally - if there are still sects around the world modeling themselves after the Early Church - then they missed the point entirely. The REAL Church is a living Body that GREW over the last 2000 years. It grew from the acorn to the oak - the mustard seed to the large plant.

The Catholic system came from men who were seduced by worldly power...the true Christians were killed off to make way for the clerics to run the show! The devil has been ruling since then! It is the devil that rules the masses...

So - you can't prove any of it?
That's what I thought.

You see - anti-Catholics are usually just full of hot wind. When you ask them for evidence - they reatreat back to their inane one-liners.

This is waaaaay too easy.
Whenever you're ready to have an intelligent discourse - I'm all ears . . .

 

[Episkopos]

Individuals within the Church have persecuted heretics over the centuries and this was not right. However - they were heretics. It was the hersesies that they were attemptig to quell.

As for your myth that many sects around the world still meet the way the Early Christians did, you're dead wrong. First of all - is they model themselves after the Early Church - where is the Eucharist, hmmm? the Early Church was dedicated to the Holy Eucharist and worshipped it as the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was not just a symbol to them and many of them went willingly to horrific deaths because they were accused of cannibalism by their pagan Roman persecutors? Did you know that? I didn't think so.
The so-called "Reformers" ALSO believed in the Eucharist.

As for the Early Church -
The Early Church baptized infants.
The Early Church prayed for the dead.
The Early Church was led by Priests and Bishops.
The Early Church believed in Church Authority.
The Early Church taught about Mary's Perpetual Virginity - and so did the "Reformers".
The Early Church believed in Mary's Immaculate Conception - and so did many of the "Reformers".
The Early Church taught about Purgatory.
The Early Church believed in Apostolic Succession.

The Early Church didn't have "altar calls".
The Early Church didn't believe in OSAS.
The Early Church didn't believe in Eternal Security.
The Early Church didn't believe in Sola Scriptura.
The Early Church didn't believe in Sola Fide.
The Early Church didn't believe in a pre-Tribulation "Rapture".

Finally - if there are still sects around the world modeling themselves after the Early Church - then they missed the point entirely. The REAL Church is a living Body that GREW over the last 2000 years. It grew from the acorn to the oak - the mustard seed to the large plant.



So - you can't prove any of it?
That's what I thought.

You see - anti-Catholics are usually just full of hot wind. When you ask them for evidence - they reatreat back to their inane one-liners.

This is waaaaay too easy.
Whenever you're ready to have an intelligent discourse - I'm all ears . . .

Using the worldly powers! Yes! But the kingdom of God is not of this world. Christ's followers live from there and change the world through the Spirit...

 

[Mungo]

Using the worldly powers! Yes! But the kingdom of God is not of this world. Christ's followers live from there and change the world through the Spirit...

Are you saying you live on a different planet to the rest of us?

That explains a lot!

 

[Alanforchrist]

Ummm, I have already show you and others - ad nauseam - that the Bible and the Greek use the word "Kecharitomene", which is a perfect passive participle of Charitoo. I can't help it if you don't understand simple linguistics. And, as I have pointed out, does the word "Swim" always apply in a sentence about swimming? How about Swam? Swimmig? Swum?
Your failure to understand simple linguistic rules is your downfall here - so don't blame the Catholic Church for your ignorance.

As for "churches" (buildings) in the first century - WHY would you assume that James was pastor in a building called a "church"?? They met in each other's HOMES (Acts 2:46, Acts 16:40).

Again, don't blame me or the Church for your historical and Scriptural ignorance.



What do I have against Christians??
That's a pretty silly question, considering the fact that I AM a Christian. In fact Catholics were the very FIRST Christians. All of your disjointed splinter groups that you all belong to didn't come until MUCH later.

Don't you find it strange that only the catholics twisted Greek use the word kecharitomene??.. Every no vatholic Greek say, Charitto.

As for the Church, The Church is the people and wherever they meet, Whether it was a home, a school building or anywhere eles, They still had somewhere to worship.

 

[Episkopos]

Are you saying you live on a different planet to the rest of us?

That explains a lot!

The church of Rome is allied with worldly powers. You perhaps are not familiar with the teachings of Christ concerning the kingdom. At first this may seem strange indeed.

 

[Mungo]

The church of Rome is allied with worldly powers.

Any evidence?

Or is that too much to ask?

 

[Episkopos]

Any evidence?

Or is that too much to ask?

The vatican is a recognized political state and it has it's own bank. But the treasure of the real church is in heaven and we have no country but the heavenly Jerusalem!

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Using the worldly powers! Yes! But the kingdom of God is not of this world. Christ's followers live from there and change the world through the Spirit...

That's it, Episkopos?? That's your answer to the long list of evidece I presented??
This is precisely why nobody takes your posts seriously.

You told me that many sects around the world practice just like the Early Christians and I shut you down with a laundry list of evidence to the contrary. Please respond intelligently and give me some evidence to prove me wrong.

Don't you find it strange that only the catholics twisted Greek use the word kecharitomene??.. Every no vatholic Greek say, Charitto.

As for the Church, The Church is the people and wherever they meet, Whether it was a home, a school building or anywhere eles, They still had somewhere to worship.

Not strange at all. As I have said ad nauseam - the failure of many of you to understand simple linguistic rules such as participles and tenses doesn't nullify the fact that Kecharitomene is used in Luke 1:28.

As for the "venue" definition of "church" - prove to me that Mary never attended. I'll even take traditions or historical evidence.

PLEASE prove the Church wrong.

 

[Episkopos]

That's it, Episkopos?? That's your answer to the long list of evidece I presented??
This is precisely why nobody takes your posts seriously.

You told me that many sects around the world practice just like the Early Christians and I shut you down with a laundry list of evidence to the contrary. Please respond intelligently and give me some evidence to prove me wrong.

You don't even respect apostolic authority...you spurn the apostle Paul...why would you respect anyone else who comes in God's name? You have no fear of God...this might seem like a good thing to you...but the ways of the wicked seem wise to them!