Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?
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From the OP.
Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic. Link below.
The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".
In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.
Was Jesus Heretical?
Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.
Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?
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Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic. Link below.
The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".
In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.
Was Jesus Heretical?
Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.
Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?
Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)
Follow-up to the "Is Universalism Orthodox."[?] topic. What is this thing with accusations of unorthodox, heretic, heterodox, pagan, etc. Seems like blatant tribalism to me. Us versus them. When will we ever learn? So, was Jesus orthodox? Or did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of...
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?
He threatened the whole economy.Forgiveness was the temple business around which the economy thrived. Jesus bypassed the whole process. He forgave sins unilaterally without ever sending anyone to the temple.....besides his acceptance of the marginalised of every stripe.
He presented a picture of God unknown to the National curriculum. We know the story.
Wow. That's an interesting take on the situation.
Seems that the Church ended up in the same place. Only a matter of time, I suppose. (evil humans)
Wow. That is quite a declaration.
Jesus "upset the apple cart", not just the money-changers tables OUTSIDE the Temple.
But the motives of what was going on INSIDE the Temple.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?
Was Jesus Heretical? No
Was Jesus accused of Blasphemy? Yes
What Blasphemy? Making Himself God.
Jewish Law Penalty for Blasphemy? Death
Jews under Roman law allowed to carry out Jewish Law Penalty of Death? No.
Roman Law allowing Roman Prisoner exchange once a year? Yes.
Jesus exchanged with Prisoner sentenced to Death? Yes
Per the trade,Jesus sentenced to Death? Yes
Mob of Jews called for a Crucifixion Death?
Yes
Roman Guards commanded to oblige the Jewish Mob.
John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 19:
[7] The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Matt 27:
[15] Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would.
[16] And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
[17] Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?
(It was Gods intent and plan for Jesus’ body to Die….Even the manner was orchestrated by God, knowing how Jesus’ death would occur. It was Important for the Jews to reveal…and the text to Record the Jews were accusing Jesus of claiming to be God, and very important, Jesus never denied the claim.)
Glory to God,
Taken
Was Jesus Heretical? No
Was Jesus accused of Blasphemy? Yes
What Blasphemy? Making Himself God.
Jewish Law Penalty for Blasphemy? Death
Jews under Roman law allowed to carry out Jewish Law Penalty of Death? No.
Roman Law allowing Roman Prisoner exchange once a year? Yes.
Jesus exchanged with Prisoner sentenced to Death? Yes
Per the trade,Jesus sentenced to Death? Yes
Mob of Jews called for a Crucifixion Death?
Yes
Roman Guards commanded to oblige the Jewish Mob.
John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 19:
[7] The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Matt 27:
[15] Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would.
[16] And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
[17] Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?
(It was Gods intent and plan for Jesus’ body to Die….Even the manner was orchestrated by God, knowing how Jesus’ death would occur. It was Important for the Jews to reveal…and the text to Record the Jews were accusing Jesus of claiming to be God, and very important, Jesus never denied the claim.)
Glory to God,
Taken
soberxp
Well-Known Member
He has come quietly, no doubt.He came when people didn't expect him.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The Pharisees built the tombs of the prophets, and adorned their sepulchers, and said one to another, If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have united with them in shedding the blood of God's servants. At the same time they were planning to take the life of His Son. This should be a lesson to us. It should open our eyes to the power of Satan to deceive the mind that turns from the light of truth. Many follow in the track of the Pharisees. They revere those who have died for their faith. They wonder at the blindness of the Jews in rejecting Christ. Had we lived in His day, they declare, we would gladly have received His teaching; we would never have been partakers in the guilt of those who rejected the Saviour. But when obedience to God requires self-denial and humiliation, these very persons stifle their convictions, and refuse obedience. Thus they manifest the same spirit as did the Pharisees whom Christ condemned. EGW DoA618
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The only orthodoxy we are aware of was that of Anna and Simeon who were present at the dedication of the baby Jesus in the temple. Isaiah informs us of the state of the nation during his tenure, but I see no reason to presume matters had improved at the time of Jesus judging by His rebukes...
“10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: 23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. ”
Isaiah 1:10-23 KJV
Everyone seems to be thrown by my use of the word orthodox. I mean it in the broadest sense.
An unorthodox (heretical) action, or belief, is anything outside the accepted norm.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Do you mean, in Judaism?
Not sure of the context of your statement.
Please explain. (or point to a post # the explains)
Thanks.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
"Self-denial and humility - it's not just for the other guy."
Since it's now the traditional season in the Liturgical Calendar to reflect on our own lives, I suppose it would be appropriate for me to contemplate on where I might be doing the same thing.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Quoting EGW? You're going to stir up Amigo and the usual suspects and @St. SteVen's thread is going to get trashed. He's probably used to it by now, though.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The slaughter of sheep by the hundreds with the resulting "rivers of blood" had degenerated to a mere formality without repentance. Hence both John the Baptist's and Jesus's messages of repentance to the nation. Sure, there were exceptions, but you mentioned the norm. As Quiet said, Jesus turned the economy upside down and upended the mindset of the religious hierarchy. " Do as the say, but not as they do".
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I don't normally do so in threads, but frequently, she said things better than I and is worth the quote.
Do you know how many threads Steven has started? 10 pages the site shows, then throws it's hands up in defeat.
Taken
Well-Known Member
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We are all heretical... Including Jesus... In the eyes of somebody else. We have members here who believe we are heretical for not going along with their eschatology.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Why did they crucify Him?
They crucified Him, because His Claims Was Making Himself God…and one Making Himself God, Was / Is, according to Judaism, a Blasphemous Offense, worthy of Death.John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 19:
[7] The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
They attempted several times to Kill Jesus by stoning, in sorts of Secrecy, because A JEW was not lawfully (under Roman Law, to put another man to Death).
Jesus’ bodily Death, WAS to be a WIDELY Observed EVENT, “arranged by God” yet unwittingly “Carried out” by men.
It was A fulfillment of Gods Works, to reveal to men what they stumbled to believe “by Word”, without Seeing.
The “Word” of God was “slain / Killed” before Mankind was Created and Made.
Four Thousand Years passed, Before God “Prepared” His Word a Body, “and THAT specific Body, to be Called” THE Son of God.
Rev. 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Many Times, throughout the OT, The Word of God, Appeared to human men, in “A Body”, but was not called; “The Son of God”.
Example: Gen 18: (full chapter for context)
[1] And the LORD appeared unto him (Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Glory To God,
Taken
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