Walking away from forums

[justaname]

For some time I was allowing the forum to be excessive in consuming time. I no longer let the forum press on my mind nor do I need to check in every couple of hours as I once felt I did. I don't have the phone out, looking at the forum when my attention should be focused on the person I am with at the moment. I regulate better when I view content, what I am going to comment on, and how emotional I will get with a certain topic or poster.

From a positive perspective:
Past discussions and debates made me delve deeper into the Scriptures, flesh out more fully what I believe, challenged my presuppositions, and sharpened my knowledge on different heresies. I am able to spot logical fallacies easier, understand good/bad argumentation more fully, and use that knowledge to better communicate my own argumentation in a stronger and more convincing fashion.

I have been able to make impersonal/semi-personal relationships with people from highly diverse backgrounds. I have communicated words of encouragement, softened the pain of personal suffering, and communicated Christ's love to individuals I would never have communicated with.

For me the good far outweighs the bad. I decided not to walk away, rather to engage it from a different perspective.

Hope this helps those on the fence!

In the Love of Christ,
Justaname

 

[OzSpen]

That's what I thought, too, Heretoeternity.
Very few people seem to be here to discuss. Almost everyone fancies him/herself to be a teacher...the "Ultimate Authority" on all things Christian.
That idea that what we are doing here is "arguing about Scripture" seems pretty prevalent here...

I am certainly here to discuss, but not when I see false doctrine being promoted. Here's my reasoning:

In any forum, we are dealing with several issues that Paul addressed in his letter of 2 Timothy:

1. 'Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth' (2 Tim 2:15 NIV).

This is a challenge to all workers (Christians?) to be people who 'cut straight' (i.e. rightly handles), a metaphor that probably means doing something correctly (but there has been considerable discussion over its exact meaning). The call is for those who deal with the Word of truth to do it in a correct manner.

2. 'Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will' (2 Tim 2:23-26 NIV).

Gently dealing with arguments and controversy is critical for any discussion on the 'Word of truth' but opponents of the truth, nevertheless, need teaching, and to be 'gently instructed' so that they come 'to a knowledge of the truth' and not slip into 'the trap of the devil'. It is serious business in teaching God's people 'the word of truth' whether in a church or here on CyB.

3. 'Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths' (2 Tim 4:2-4 NIV).

These are ominous verses for the Internet gives unlimited opportunities to 'preach the word' but such preaching requires people who will 'correct, rebuke and encourage' but 'with great patience and careful instruction'. This is a difficult calling. Many on the Internet do not like this kind of correction.

In fact, the time is coming when 'sound doctrine' may be prevented from being aired on the Internet. Could a time be coming when some Christian leaders may have to establish orthodox Christian forums because of the lack of sound doctrine being perpetrated on other forums? I'm not suggesting that is happening here.

There is an awesome responsibility for forum owners and moderators to maintain vigilance in upholding biblical orthodoxy in doctrines on forums.

In Christ,
Oz

 

[Barrd]

For some time I was allowing the forum to be excessive in consuming time. I no longer let the forum press on my mind nor do I need to check in every couple of hours as I once felt I did. I don't have the phone out, looking at the forum when my attention should be focused on the person I am with at the moment. I regulate better when I view content, what I am going to comment on, and how emotional I will get with a certain topic or poster.

From a positive perspective:
Past discussions and debates made me delve deeper into the Scriptures, flesh out more fully what I believe, challenged my presuppositions, and sharpened my knowledge on different heresies. I am able to spot logical fallacies easier, understand good/bad argumentation more fully, and use that knowledge to better communicate my own argumentation in a stronger and more convincing fashion.

I have been able to make impersonal/semi-personal relationships with people from highly diverse backgrounds. I have communicated words of encouragement, softened the pain of personal suffering, and communicated Christ's love to individuals I would never have communicated with.

For me the good far outweighs the bad. I decided not to walk away, rather to engage it from a different perspective.

Hope this helps those on the fence!

In the Love of Christ,
Justaname

Justaname, you have read my mind. The only thing I would add is that I never learned a thing from people who agree with me.
I like to believe that maybe I have made a few people think...
But I know that being involved in these discussions/debates has definitely made me think...and in thinking, deepen my own faith.
It has been an awesome experience, starting way back to the old Yahoo chat days...and I wouldn't have missed a bit of it for anything...

 

[HammerStone]

That's an exceedingly mature observation and I commend you for such penetrating observations.

Such a mature observation only came about as I learned from others and became humbled with my own shortcomings. Certain people have staying power and the almost unparalleled ability not to get rattled. They're on every forum and every topic, but obviously I have the most admiration for those faithful Christ followers who are able to spar with every heresy imaginable in such a patient manner. I think we like to call it the long view, and it's so hard to take that view, yet as I've aged (and failed, and failed again), God is sanctifying me in that regard.

I find the forum to be a place where considered views can be expressed that are not possible with instant conversation. Research is possible for the forum but not in person-to-person. Many are not able to give off the cuff comments about: (1) Why there are objections to Pauline authorship of the pastoral epistles; (2) Why didn't Jesus say more about homosexuality? (3) What kind of national health scheme is best for the country? etc.

A number of Christians cannot even provide a cogent reply on why they even trust the Bible over another faith tradition's holy book. Fortunately or unfortunately, forums can draw attention to this. Our church adopted 1 Peter 3:15 as our "motto verse" and I quasi-adopted it for my own forum experiences. As Christians who are maturing, I think it is our responsibility to give our terms for our faith. Why has it stricken me? Why does it convince and convict me deeply of my own sin? In more formal terms it's called epistemology, but it's basically the how we know what we know.

Thus, I think a lot of it comes down to people not thinking within a systematic framework. One of the first things I remind people about is God is not an author of confusion. If you see confusion, then it's likely not of God. If you see someone picking a verse or two while contradicting one, two or twenty others, then that's not the Holy Spirit and that's not God. That's one of the great beauties of the church in general. She's flawed at times, yes, but we have history and community that work together and keep us on the narrow right path. I see CB as an extension of that. I at least hope that it is.

That said, one of the most detrimental things I see time and again is that people will run with what they've read. They become self-styled experts with a reading or two of a passage and then claim that the Spirit told them. As some here have said, they become a rather self-centered authority on the matter, and never realize their vanity controls how they interact with others, always dangling some piece of supposed secret knowledge that only they are smart enough to fully understand.

If we could eliminate that attitude stripe, then I think forums would be fully fun again. As this little thread illustrates, much has to do with humility. I am grateful for those of you who have learned this! You ladies and gents pretty much brighten my day and keep me going!

 

[OzSpen]

Such a mature observation only came about as I learned from others and became humbled with my own shortcomings. Certain people have staying power and the almost unparalleled ability not to get rattled. They're on every forum and every topic, but obviously I have the most admiration for those faithful Christ followers who are able to spar with every heresy imaginable in such a patient manner. I think we like to call it the long view, and it's so hard to take that view, yet as I've aged (and failed, and failed again), God is sanctifying me in that regard.

Again, such amazing humility. My God bless and encourage you in this kind of maturity. May it help more of us on this forum to pursue it with you - in the midst of failures. I agree that some find it easier than others not to get rattled. For me, one of the big challenges of 1 Pet 3:15-16 (ESV) is to make the defense for Christ 'with gentleness and respect'. It's too easy to respond quickly and angrily. Taking the 'long view' and God's ability to use even stumbling words is something I'm still learning.

A number of Christians cannot even provide a cogent reply on why they even trust the Bible over another faith tradition's holy book. Fortunately or unfortunately, forums can draw attention to this. Our church adopted 1 Peter 3:15 as our "motto verse" and I quasi-adopted it for my own forum experiences. As Christians who are maturing, I think it is our responsibility to give our terms for our faith. Why has it stricken me? Why does it convince and convict me deeply of my own sin? In more formal terms it's called epistemology, but it's basically the how we know what we know.

From my church experience, I can say that it's because I was not taught it in any evangelical church I've ever attended. In my secular country, training in apologetics is in very short supply. I don't know of one church locally that takes it seriously. The Principal of the Baptist Theological College, Sydney, Ross Clifford, trained under John Warwick Montgomery, so that college as a reasonably good foundation in apologetics' training. It is rare.

It's thrilling for you to be in a church that has adopted 1 Peter 3;15 as its motto and you for this forum.

I uses the T.I.E.S acronym to help me with a defense of the biblical documents:
T = Transmission Test
I = Internal Evidence Test
E = External Evidence Test
S = Spirit of conviction

I've developed it into a few article on my homepage. I learned much of this material when I studied for a short time back in 1987 at Simon Greenleaf School of Law (Anaheim CA) under John W Montgomery and other apologists. I had to leave the study urgently to return to Australia for open-heart (valve replacement surgery). Here's a summary of some of my material, but it is in no way complete and needs a lot of editing and updating.

Can you trust the Bible? Part 1
Can you trust the Bible? Part 2
Can you trust the Bible? Part 3
Can you trust the Bible? Part 4

Thus, I think a lot of it comes down to people not thinking within a systematic framework. One of the first things I remind people about is God is not an author of confusion. If you see confusion, then it's likely not of God. If you see someone picking a verse or two while contradicting one, two or twenty others, then that's not the Holy Spirit and that's not God. That's one of the great beauties of the church in general. She's flawed at times, yes, but we have history and community that work together and keep us on the narrow right path. I see CB as an extension of that. I at least hope that it is.

What does your 'systematic framework' include? I'm not exactly sure to which 'systematic' view you are referring. My systematic view with apologetics is classical/evidential and not presuppositional. I don't know if that is the kind of systematic framework to which you refer.

Confusion and cherry picking verses don't seem to harmonise with the God of truth. How we define truth is another area of concern for me in a secular culture.

That said, one of the most detrimental things I see time and again is that people will run with what they've read. They become self-styled experts with a reading or two of a passage and then claim that the Spirit told them. As some here have said, they become a rather self-centered authority on the matter, and never realize their vanity controls how they interact with others, always dangling some piece of supposed secret knowledge that only they are smart enough to fully understand.

Do you find people are still reading worthwhile material? I don't. There are not many on this and other forums that I have met who are even prepared to examine a range of commentaries or apologetic material as a result of reading. In this IT age, I'm not convinced many are doing in-depth reading to be able to refute some of the hairy heresies that are out there. 'The Spirit told me' is one of the most distracting side paths for solid discussion because how do I know it was the Spirit when He didn't tell me and it disagrees with the Spirit-inspired Scripture?

Yes, vanity and secret knowledge (another version of Gnosticism) are dangling its spiritual carrots.

If we could eliminate that attitude stripe, then I think forums would be fully fun again. As this little thread illustrates, much has to do with humility. I am grateful for those of you who have learned this! You ladies and gents pretty much brighten my day and keep me going!

'Attitude stripe' is a quaint expression. Humility is a rare quality these days and I'm so pleased to confirm with you the brightness of such people.

In Christ,
Oz

 

[ewq1938]

The only thing I would add is that I never learned a thing from people who agree with me.

I have mainly when they had more to share which caused me to think it over and accept when I felt it was solid. But learning from those that disagree also has helped.