Understanding Divine Prosperity

[emekrus]

I believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is God, died for all my sins and will keep me with Him for eternal bliss. My faith in God as on par with my faith in gravity........and now you want me to muster up more faith / you assume it takes more faith to believe God (whom I already believe kept the earth in orbit this morning)....can print paper money?

God is NOT to be treated like a vending machine and a Christian has already received a measure of faith much greater then a mustard seed Rom 12:3.


I agree with you but it is always funny to hear prosperity teachers quote this verse. It has nothing to do with God promising blessings. It is John greeting Gaius :).


You are cherry picking scriptures. Aligning ourselves with end time prophecy is to hold fast to the truth when this happens:

Matt 24:9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

You need to read Matt 6:19 in conjunction with whatever scripture you believe teaches that we should pursue prosperity.

Matt 6:19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.


Preachers must be looked after. A worker is worthy of his wages. But we need to understand that prosperity is not something a pastor must pursue. It is something God and the members will provide.

What is interesting about tithing for me is the ratio. It was 11 tribes supporting 1. Meaning the Levites would receive 110% of the average household income. Not 2000% as happens in some churches ^_^.


What we believe and what is reality are two different things. You said you use money for outreaches. If that is where you heart is that is good. But the rest of your posts seem blurred with pushing self prosperity.

I think prosperity is God's last wish for us. It is hard for a rich man to do God's will. They ask 'what will I do today. What will I buy myself today. Where will I go today'. We are suppsoed to wake and ask what God wants of us today.

A child should not need to pray for needs Matt 6:26. The unsaved need faith that our God will look after them if they come to Him. The faith you push is faith the unsaved need. Please try understand that.

My Brother, it is true we all have received the measure of Faith. But Faith grows with revelation. Faith is a living force and as such it grows. Jesus told his deciples, they had little Faith. The more your Faith grows in God, the more you can accomplish in God.

Then as for 3 John 2, I want to belive it is a matter of revelation. If you have a revelation of the scripture one way, it doesn't mean yours is the only correct one, while the rests, are plain nonesense. If you have that mindset, watch it, that is a long-tongue, and it has spiritual consequences.


As for the endtime plans, Yes, we're to prepare for tribulation and persecution. But before and amidst all that, souls will still be worn to the Kingdom, through prosperity and the outpouring of the Spirit as Joel 3:12-14 says. Remember, the Scriptures says, my City shall be spread abroad, through Prosperity.

Concerning Matt 6:19; it says we should store our treasures in heaven. And I hope you will agree with me that the spiritual way to do that is through soul winning, giving to the poor and needy; visiting the folks in prison and hospitals. But if you do not have enough, you hardly can do half of what the scripture expects us to do in order to lay our treasures in heaven.

Finally, I have found out that you did not take time to read my original post, teaching on this topic of "Understanding Divine Prosperity". It is very clear you just jumped in to take sides with the people that believes what you believe as well. But this oft not be the character of a saint. You should have first taken your time to read the sermon I posted to see what I'm saying about divine prosperity, before reacting in erroneous zeal.

If you read the sermon, you would have found out, I said the prosperity is not for accumulation, nor for increasing fleets of cars, rather, it is for us to abound unto every good work.

To give you a personal instance of what I mean. Just by last year October, God blessed me with over a million. And I have spent a huge part of it accordingly, as the Holy Spirit led. And to show you the level of submission to the will of God, I haven't bought any Shirt or Trouser saving for only two underwears and a pair of slippers. And that is in spite of the fact that my Clothes are currently worn out. Apart from that, in my house I rented, I don't even have a TV set. Instead, I had spent most of the money in the vision God gave me for the course of the Kingdom.

So you see, prosperity is not the problem, but rather, carnality and worldliness. And in Apostle Pauls second Epistle to Timothy, He talked about how people with riches are to comport themselves. He said they should not be high minded, not trusting on their uncertain riches, but rather be distributive so they can be able to enter the Kingdom of God. He didn't say they should stop being rich and get poor.

I have read Joel 2... I agree with other posters that you are cherry-picking... If one part of Joel is a promise to modern-day believers, then the whole thing is, right?

So, exactly when did the locusts consume everything owned by Christians that God is replacing with wealth? When did Christians stop being put to shame?

This is not a prescriptive piece of scripture, it is descriptive of a prophecy toward Israel.

My Sister, I have seen that your challenge is that you need the gift of the revelational knowledge of the word of God. The Scriptures are in mystery, so it takes only the Holy Ghost to reveal them to the believer who submits his or herself in meekness to learn from God. Remember, God only reveals his secrets to the meek in heart. Not the people who think they already know. Or the folks who presume to know what a particular scripture is saying. You see, I can defend every sermon I preach to the end because I don't presume things or follow suit. I teach out of what the Holy Spirit reveals to my Spirit. And as such, my faith concerning them is unflinching. Then consequently, I have results or signs to show for them.

 

[KingJ]

My Brother, it is true we all have received the measure of Faith. But Faith grows with revelation. Faith is a living force and as such it grows. Jesus told his deciples, they had little Faith. The more your Faith grows in God, the more you can accomplish in God.

Then as for 3 John 2, I want to belive it is a matter of revelation. If you have a revelation of the scripture one way, it doesn't mean yours is the only correct one, while the rests, are plain nonesense. If you have that mindset, watch it, that is a long-tongue, and it has spiritual consequences.


As for the endtime plans, Yes, we're to prepare for tribulation and persecution. But before and amidst all that, souls will still be worn to the Kingdom, through prosperity and the outpouring of the Spirit as Joel 3:12-14 says. Remember, the Scriptures says, my City shall be spread abroad, through Prosperity.

Concerning Matt 6:19; it says we should store our treasures in heaven. And I hope you will agree with me that the spiritual way to do that is through soul winning, giving to the poor and needy; visiting the folks in prison and hospitals. But if you do not have enough, you hardly can do half of what the scripture expects us to do in order to lay our treasures in heaven.

Finally, I have found out that you did not take time to read my original post, teaching on this topic of "Understanding Divine Prosperity". It is very clear you just jumped in to take sides with the people that believes what you believe as well. But this oft not be the character of a saint. You should have first taken your time to read the sermon I posted to see what I'm saying about divine prosperity, before reacting in erroneous zeal.

If you read the sermon, you would have found out, I said the prosperity is not for accumulation, nor for increasing fleets of cars, rather, it is for us to abound unto every good work.

To give you a personal instance of what I mean. Just by last year October, God blessed me with over a million. And I have spent a huge part of it accordingly, as the Holy Spirit led. And to show you the level of submission to the will of God, I haven't bought any Shirt or Trouser saving for only two underwears and a pair of slippers. And that is in spite of the fact that my Clothes are currently worn out. Apart from that, in my house I rented, I don't even have a TV set. Instead, I had spent most of the money in the vision God gave me for the course of the Kingdom.

So you see, prosperity is not the problem, but rather, carnality and worldliness. And in Apostle Pauls second Epistle to Timothy, He talked about how people with riches are to comport themselves. He said they should not be high minded, not trusting on their uncertain riches, but rather be distributive so they can be able to enter the Kingdom of God. He didn't say they should stop being rich and get poor.


My Sister, I have seen that your challenge is that you need the gift of the revelational knowledge of the word of God. The Scriptures are in mystery, so it takes only the Holy Ghost to reveal them to the believer who submits his or herself in meekness to learn from God. Remember, God only reveals his secrets to the meek in heart. Not the people who think they already know. Or the folks who presume to know what a particular scripture is saying. You see, I can defend every sermon I preach to the end because I don't presume things or follow suit. I teach out of what the Holy Spirit reveals to my Spirit. And as such, my faith concerning them is unflinching. Then consequently, I have results or signs to show for them.

Yes, I did lose interest after the faith teaching. I see you mean well / are not a typical prosperity teacher -_-.

However you can't insinuate that we must all prosper to spread the gospel / prospering is part and parcel of spreading the gospel. This is simply a ridiculous belief.

Back on faith... You can't say it takes more faith to believe God can print paper money then it does to believe a man who walked the earth is God. How in the universe is believing God can make paper money = growing in faith for someone who already believes God made the entire earth...universe...? That is ridiculous. The faith you proposing is faith the unsaved need.

3 John 1 is John greeting Gaius. When you greet a King it is normal to say ''may you live long and prosper''. That is all there is to that verse.

What scripture do you believe talks of God promising us prosperity? Lets discuss them. There is not a single one that I know of. Everyone of them has to be twisted to be taken as a promise.

This is not a personal attack on you. Let's just deal with scripture honestly.

 

[DogLady19]

My Sister, I have seen that your challenge is that you need the gift of the revelational knowledge of the word of God. The Scriptures are in mystery, so it takes only the Holy Ghost to reveal them to the believer who submits his or herself in meekness to learn from God. Remember, God only reveals his secrets to the meek in heart. Not the people who think they already know. Or the folks who presume to know what a particular scripture is saying. You see, I can defend every sermon I preach to the end because I don't presume things or follow suit. I teach out of what the Holy Spirit reveals to my Spirit. And as such, my faith concerning them is unflinching. Then consequently, I have results or signs to show for them.

I don't want you to preach. I want you to explain all the scriptures that others and myself have provided to you that refute your prosperity doctrine. I don't know you, and you are not the Holy Spirit, so show me Biblically, with actual scriptures, that refute those that I and others have given you to look at... Ask the Holy Spirit to show you those mysteries... You don't have a monopoly on Holy Spirit revelation...

You have results to show? I have results to show too. People who make millions from selling children into sex slavery. TV evangelists who bilk desperate people for their life savings under the premise of getting a blessing or a healing. Faith healers preying on sick people for a fee. Black markets that get rich by selling weapons to armies that commit genocide. Being materially wealthy is no indicator whatsoever of your faith in God. You don't have to have faith in God, or any promise from God, to get material wealth.

 

[emekrus]

What scripture do you believe talks of God promising us prosperity? Lets discuss them. There is not a single one that I know of. Everyone of them has to be twisted to be taken as a promise.

This is not a personal attack on you. Let's just deal with scripture honestly.

My dear brother, concerning this particular sermon I shared here, The scripture behind it remains: Joel 2: 23-27. When I received the revelation of prosperity of the Church in the endtime, through that scripture, I was not specifically searching for scriptures on prosperity. I was just waiting on the Lord, and just reading my bible as my personal habit. Then as I was reading particularly, that Joel 2, The Revelation of the signs of the endtime Church was revealed by the Holy Spirit, in my spirit. From that Scripture, I found out, that massive wealth is one thing that will mark the endtime Church. Then amidst the massive wealth, is the mighty outpouring of the Spirit of God in the Church. Then after all these, the sign of the moon, stars, and sun darkening and turing to blood will show. Then eventually, at the end of all, the Lord Jesus will come for his faithful saints. This truth is very glaring in that very book of Joel. The Chapter 3 of that same Joel, reveals also the essence of the massive wealth and the outpouring of the Spirit. From verses 12 down to 14 (Joel 12- 14). which talks about the harvest being ready, then we should put in our sickles. To save the multitudes that are in the valley of decision.

And all these signs are already very conspicous, unless we want to hide under religion to deny them. However, these endtime blessings are being abused. Not only the massive wealth, but also the gift of the Spirit. But that does not mean we can now break the truth of the scriptures. We cartainly cannot stop God from fulfilling his words, just because some folks are abusing his blessings. As people are abusing his blessings, so also are some also using the blessings judiciously for the purpose for which it is meant.

For instance, by the grace of God, Spiritual gifts do manifest through me, but I don't abuse it, rather, I apply them for my self edification and the edification of others. God blesses me finacially, and I use it for the course of Kingdom and for Love as well.

Finally, my brother, concerning scriptures, I must not fail to remind you, that you can't get the truth of scriptures intellectually, trying to do that will lead you into many errors. Just like Jesus told the Saducees "You do err, not knowing the scriptures". Every biblical word or scripture has spiritual connotation and truth and they are only revealed by the Holy Spirit himself. So when reading the scriptures be more spiritually sensitive than intellectual. No one can interprete the scripture by eloquence (the gift of the gab, in the U.K) or academic prowess. The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit that Quickeneth. Bless U.

I don't want you to preach. I want you to explain all the scriptures that others and myself have provided to you that refute your prosperity doctrine. I don't know you, and you are not the Holy Spirit, so show me Biblically, with actual scriptures, that refute those that I and others have given you to look at... Ask the Holy Spirit to show you those mysteries... You don't have a monopoly on Holy Spirit revelation...

You have results to show? I have results to show too. People who make millions from selling children into sex slavery. TV evangelists who bilk desperate people for their life savings under the premise of getting a blessing or a healing. Faith healers preying on sick people for a fee. Black markets that get rich by selling weapons to armies that commit genocide. Being materially wealthy is no indicator whatsoever of your faith in God. You don't have to have faith in God, or any promise from God, to get material wealth.


My dear, as those scripture, from the angle you people are coming you people are right in your own school of thought. But certainly they do not change the truth of what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. You have your revelation, I have my revelation, but why say that mine is wrong and yours right? That's already against what is expected of a saint. Because you have your reservations against prosperity does not make the truth of God of none effec. But anyway, I'm not in for strife here, I'm just here for a soul purpose. To teach and to edify, so in the end, many will turn truely to Christ.

So since you do not yet see, or do not want to see what I see in that Joel 2. I'll let you be. God that revealed it to me, without me asking, will one day show you, if you will need it. Then for the negative results you pointed out, it is very true that such vices are totally devilish, but at the same time, there are people with Righteous results. And by the special grace of God, I'm one of such. and God is just starting with me along that line. And the reason behind it, is very righteous and utopian scripturally. Hence, I'll yield myself to the leading of the Spirit. I will not be swayed by the words of any man. Else I'll fail God. I believe God reveals his plans first to a person, before he carries them out. So I beleive, as I have received this revelation, I will part-take fully of its practical manifestaion.

And also, as many that receives this biblical truth, will also part-take in these endtime plans of God.


But as I end, there something that have been piquing my curiiousity about your username. Pls this is just a honest question, not mockery. Why did you choose this your username?

Until you reply, remain blessed.

 

[DogLady19]

"My dear, as those scripture, from the angle you people are coming you people are right in your own school of thought."

You people? What does that mean? Are you extra special in God's eyes? Do you have a different God?

Here's some questions I'd like you to answer:

Why wasn't John the Baptizer and the Apostles wealthy? Did they fail to grasp God's "promise of prosperity"? Did they lack faith?

How materially wealthy are YOU, what do you do with all that money?

 

[emekrus]

For John the Baptist, he was destined to live the way he did, from scriptures. The Apostles also, where also rich, only they were not accumulative. Apostle Paul made mention of him working with his hand, to provide for his needs. And also supporting others. He was not an Idle Christian like so many Christians today. Who have made themselves so unfruitful. Such that if someone around them is pressed and they ask them for help, they won't be able to help. Instead, they are the only ones that always run to people, Including the unbelievers. Now being rich is not in the amount you accumulate, or your material possession.

Of course, our Lord Jesus said; the worth of a man does not depend on what he has. But however, he charged us with a new commandment- which is the ultimate commandment for the new testament believers. What is this commandment? "A new Commandment I give you, that you love one another". And to show love, you must position yourself in every holy, possible way. You have to position yourself for Spiritual gifts. You have to position yourself for the gift of healing and the rest. You have to position yourself, for financial or material gift. So if your neighbor is in any challenge, you will be more disposed to help. But on the other hand, if you do not have anything to help, you become so unfruitful, and people will never consider you in their time of challenges.

And for a Christian to live his life like that, I think it is one of the greatest error ever. To render yourself unuseful is a great dismal.

Then as for how materially wealthy I am, I'm not preaching prosperity in order to be bragging. of course, I know better than do that. But all the same, from the scripture, I know that I have everything that pertains to life and Godliness in Christ Jesus. I'm as rich, as I can conceive in my heart. As such, by faith, I'm worth more than a billion dollars rich.

I have everything I need, before the need arises.

Then for what I do with my money. I use it for what the bible says I should use it for. Which is the same thing I'm encouraging others to follow suit as well in my sermon.
I use my money for soul winning. I use my money to support Church projects. I use my money to help the poor and needy.I use my money to publish Christian literatures, to promote the kingdom of God. I use my money to care for my family. I use my money to make my self more useful for God and people. That's what I use my money for.

Cheers...

 

[Forsakenone]

Hmmm....who said this?

Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal. Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.

Oh yeah.... B)

And exactly how does one store treasure in heaven in your opinion?

 

[DogLady19]

For John the Baptist, he was destined to live the way he did, from scriptures. The Apostles also, where also rich, only they were not accumulative. Apostle Paul made mention of him working with his hand, to provide for his needs. And also supporting others. He was not an Idle Christian like so many Christians today. Who have made themselves so unfruitful. Such that if someone around them is pressed and they ask them for help, they won't be able to help. Instead, they are the only ones that always run to people, Including the unbelievers. Now being rich is not in the amount you accumulate, or your material possession.

Of course, our Lord Jesus said; the worth of a man does not depend on what he has. But however, he charged us with a new commandment- which is the ultimate commandment for the new testament believers. What is this commandment? "A new Commandment I give you, that you love one another". And to show love, you must position yourself in every holy, possible way. You have to position yourself for Spiritual gifts. You have to position yourself for the gift of healing and the rest. You have to position yourself, for financial or material gift. So if your neighbor is in any challenge, you will be more disposed to help. But on the other hand, if you do not have anything to help, you become so unfruitful, and people will never consider you in their time of challenges.

And for a Christian to live his life like that, I think it is one of the greatest error ever. To render yourself unuseful is a great dismal.

Then as for how materially wealthy I am, I'm not preaching prosperity in order to be bragging. of course, I know better than do that. But all the same, from the scripture, I know that I have everything that pertains to life and Godliness in Christ Jesus. I'm as rich, as I can conceive in my heart. As such, by faith, I'm worth more than a billion dollars rich.

I have everything I need, before the need arises.

Then for what I do with my money. I use it for what the bible says I should use it for. Which is the same thing I'm encouraging others to follow suit as well in my sermon.
I use my money for soul winning. I use my money to support Church projects. I use my money to help the poor and needy.I use my money to publish Christian literatures, to promote the kingdom of God. I use my money to care for my family. I use my money to make my self more useful for God and people. That's what I use my money for.

Cheers...

I think you are now changing your tune... You started by saying that if we believe in the Joel 2 promise, we will be rich with money... Now you are saying that you're rich spiritually, which is what many of us here have been saying to you all along. And if the promise is for everyone who believes, it makes no sense that John the Baptizer and the Apostles were denied such a promise of material wealth when they "loved one another" more than most of us.

I live a comfortable life, but not rich my any means, but I am rich in spirit, and that is what matters... that is the promise God made to us... not "Name and Claim It" blather...

 

[emekrus]

I think you are now changing your tune... You started by saying that if we believe in the Joel 2 promise, we will be rich with money... Now you are saying that you're rich spiritually, which is what many of us here have been saying to you all along. And if the promise is for everyone who believes, it makes no sense that John the Baptizer and the Apostles were denied such a promise of material wealth when they "loved one another" more than most of us.

I live a comfortable life, but not rich my any means, but I am rich in spirit, and that is what matters... that is the promise God made to us... not "Name and Claim It" blather...

I'm never in anyway changing my tune. What I have been saying from the begining is the same thing I'm standing on. But I know where the whole issue we've been having here all along started. It all started with your prejudice to prosperity preachers. You think all prosperity preachers are out to usurp people. And accordingly, you people jumped in to attack with zeal. Instead of jumping in to ask what you do not understand about my sermon.

As for my stands on prosperity, I'm not only rich spiritually, I'm also rich physically. Because my riches do manifest physically. If it is only spiritual, then it is a wishful and vague faith. For instance, I confess often that I can't be sick. And as such, you can never see me sick physically. Along the same line, I can't be claiming to be rich spiritually(which is by faith) and no one can see any trace of riches around me. I can't be confessing that I'm rich and yet never having any money to assist someone in times of need. I can't claim to be rich and yet be continually begging and borrowing.

Faith is not empty talk or wishful talking. After confessing it for sometime, then the physical evidence should be available to show that what you actually confess is faith. So for riches, in spite of the fact that I have them spiritually, I have physical evidence to show.


Then finally, for the Apostles, I hope you've not forgotten that the Apostolic ministry, does not allow the person to reside somewhere permanently. As such, most of their needs were provided by others. But the people who provided for them, oft to have, before providing for their needs (Food for Thought).

 

[KingJ]

And exactly how does one store treasure in heaven in your opinion?

Why don't you share first?

My dear brother, concerning this particular sermon I shared here, The scripture behind it remains: Joel 2: 23-27. When I received the revelation of prosperity of the Church in the endtime, through that scripture, I was not specifically searching for scriptures on prosperity. I was just waiting on the Lord, and just reading my bible as my personal habit. Then as I was reading particularly, that Joel 2, The Revelation of the signs of the endtime Church was revealed by the Holy Spirit, in my spirit. From that Scripture, I found out, that massive wealth is one thing that will mark the endtime Church. Then amidst the massive wealth, is the mighty outpouring of the Spirit of God in the Church. Then after all these, the sign of the moon, stars, and sun darkening and turing to blood will show. Then eventually, at the end of all, the Lord Jesus will come for his faithful saints. This truth is very glaring in that very book of Joel. The Chapter 3 of that same Joel, reveals also the essence of the massive wealth and the outpouring of the Spirit. From verses 12 down to 14 (Joel 12- 14). which talks about the harvest being ready, then we should put in our sickles. To save the multitudes that are in the valley of decision.

And all these signs are already very conspicous, unless we want to hide under religion to deny them. However, these endtime blessings are being abused. Not only the massive wealth, but also the gift of the Spirit. But that does not mean we can now break the truth of the scriptures. We cartainly cannot stop God from fulfilling his words, just because some folks are abusing his blessings. As people are abusing his blessings, so also are some also using the blessings judiciously for the purpose for which it is meant.

For instance, by the grace of God, Spiritual gifts do manifest through me, but I don't abuse it, rather, I apply them for my self edification and the edification of others. God blesses me finacially, and I use it for the course of Kingdom and for Love as well.

You can be forgiven for reading Joel 2 as a promise to you. But you have to understand it is a promise to the Jews. An end time prophecy to them. Yes, we can witness with the end time prophecy. We will be there with them. But ultimately we have to understand that it is to the Jews and we are not Jews.

I saw this commentary which may help you: Ancient Israel had no irrigation system, and relied on rain to water their crops. In a time of drought, nothing grew. God promises to restore both the former rain (falling in autumn) and the latter rain (falling in spring). When God restores these rains, Judah will have full threshing floors and wine vats. http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2902.htm

Finally, my brother, concerning scriptures, I must not fail to remind you, that you can't get the truth of scriptures intellectually, trying to do that will lead you into many errors. Just like Jesus told the Saducees "You do err, not knowing the scriptures". Every biblical word or scripture has spiritual connotation and truth and they are only revealed by the Holy Spirit himself. So when reading the scriptures be more spiritually sensitive than intellectual. No one can interprete the scripture by eloquence (the gift of the gab, in the U.K) or academic prowess. The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit that Quickeneth. Bless U..

The Holy Spirit is revealing something to you that He is not to me?

Scripture is the final authority. A mad demon could be talking to either of us.

Bottom line is that prosperity is not to even be mentioned among God's elect. The young rich man had to sell all he had. How would he have questioned Jesus if he saw promises of prosperity in scripture?

 

[pom2014]

Kingj he is a money changer, he'll not leave mammon its his way of life.

Like trying to make a leopard change his spots.

 

[emekrus]

Why don't you share first?


You can be forgiven for reading Joel 2 as a promise to you. But you have to understand it is a promise to the Jews. An end time prophecy to them. Yes, we can witness with the end time prophecy. We will be there with them. But ultimately we have to understand that it is to the Jews and we are not Jews.

I saw this commentary which may help you: Ancient Israel had no irrigation system, and relied on rain to water their crops. In a time of drought, nothing grew. God promises to restore both the former rain (falling in autumn) and the latter rain (falling in spring). When God restores these rains, Judah will have full threshing floors and wine vats. http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2902.htm

Kingj, can you re-read what you wrote as a matured believer? All in an attempt to support your prejudice for divine prosperity. You've even gone carnal in your explanation of scriptures. To say that God's endtime promises for the endtime church, is only for the jews, to the preclusion of other beleivers. If that is the case, then every other promises of the old testament, should also preclude us. And for the commentary you reffered me to, the commentator is human being like me and you. But he is trying to explain the scriptures along Carnal lines and even castigating great men of God. And I tell you, all these are herectic explanation of the scriptures. We should reason more from a spiritual standpoint than on intellectual and academic lines.

 

[pom2014]

Kingj, can you re-read what you wrote as a matured believer? All in an attempt to support your prejudice for divine prosperity. You've even gone carnal in your explanation of scriptures. To say that God's endtime promises for the endtime church, is only for the jews, to the preclusion of other beleivers. If that is the case, then every other promises of the old testament, should also preclude us. And for the commentary you reffered me to, the commentator is human being like me and you. But he is trying to explain the scriptures along Carnal lines and even castigating great men of God. And I tell you, all these are herectic explanation of the scriptures. We should reason more from a spiritual standpoint than on intellectual and academic lines.

The problem is that what God gives is sufficient to our needs, we need not ask or seek more than what is sufficient. HE KNOWS what we need. We THINK we know.

This is where the prosperity doctrines place themselves on the throne and God before it.

It is just as flawed a doctrine as the ones that seek vengeance or to be prejudiced against sinners. They too THINK they know God better than God knows them.

Here is where we have to say COMMAND ME LORD and then do what the King says. Not, oh I've figured it all out I'm as smart as you God, now you can do what I tell you to.

Just because we ask, does not mean we will get ANYTHING we want. Because sometimes those things we WANT are NOT GOOD for us and those around us.

 

[emekrus]

The Holy Spirit is revealing something to you that He is not to me?

Scripture is the final authority. A mad demon could be talking to either of us.

Bottom line is that prosperity is not to even be mentioned among God's elect. The young rich man had to sell all he had. How would he have questioned Jesus if he saw promises of prosperity in scripture?

No, you may not be sure of the spirit speaking to you. But I'm sanguine the Holy Spirit is the one speaking expressly to my spirit. Because, The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God.

Well if you do not believe in prosperity, because you cannot yet see it, well you can toe your path. The young man Jesus asked to go sell all he had, didn't question Jesus . According to scriptures, 'he went away sad'. And the sin there, was not that he had plenty, but that he Idolized his wealth. He couldn't obey Jesus to go sell all he had to follow.

But I tell you my brother, if I get the a true signal from God to sell or part with what I have, I won't even bath an eye lid before doing it. So money, or property is not the eveil. According to scriptures, 'The Love Of Money is The Root of all Evil". Which was the case of the young man you mentioned. The same was not the issue with Job, Peter and Paul.

So In case you will Idolize riches if God give it to you. Well, I advice you to continue with your faith. And of course, God loves you better, than give you what will destroy you. But for me, I'm going to embrace God's prosperity with an open arm. Because, God have engraced me, enough to be able to handle it and not go off the hook. God have passed me through the test and have accordingly prepared me for his endtime plans.

Cheers!

Kingj he is a money changer, he'll not leave mammon its his way of life.

Like trying to make a leopard change his spots.

My dear, you can call me what ever name you want to. But so long I know I'm walking by faith, and not by sight like other folks, I'm not bothered. I'm just going to continue looking up to God, to continue making good his word in my life. And consequently, I remain a blessing to my milieu.

Thanks

The problem is that what God gives is sufficient to our needs, we need not ask or seek more than what is sufficient. HE KNOWS what we need. We THINK we know.

This is where the prosperity doctrines place themselves on the throne and God before it.

It is just as flawed a doctrine as the ones that seek vengeance or to be prejudiced against sinners. They too THINK they know God better than God knows them.

Here is where we have to say COMMAND ME LORD and then do what the King says. Not, oh I've figured it all out I'm as smart as you God, now you can do what I tell you to.

Just because we ask, does not mean we will get ANYTHING we want. Because sometimes those things we WANT are NOT GOOD for us and those around us.

Yes of course, God gives sufficient. And he knows what we need. But at the same time he says "Hitherto have you asked nothing in my name, but now ask and receive, that your Joy might be full'. And concerning knowing what to ask? Of course, I have the mind of Christ according to the scriptures. I do know what God have for me as his son. All he has for me as his Son is already written in his will (the Bible) every promise I see in the scripture, is my inheritance in Christ Jesus. And the Bible says if I ask according to his will, he will answer me. And you know what? the more I ask and receive, the more the Lord is happy.

 

[pom2014]

That quote in John is not about money or physical things.

It is about knowing God. This is why you have read the whole chapter not what you want to hear.

You've been led astray. Turn away from mammon and seek riches of God not man.

 

[DogLady19]

Faith is not empty talk or wishful talking. After confessing it for sometime, then the physical evidence should be available to show that what you actually confess is faith. So for riches, in spite of the fact that I have them spiritually, I have physical evidence to show...

I hope you've not forgotten that the Apostolic ministry, does not allow the person to reside somewhere permanently. As such, most of their needs were provided by others. But the people who provided for them, oft to have, before providing for their needs...

Yep, you sound like those prosperity teachers... You can deny it all you want, but you talk just like them. Name and claim it!

As for the apostles travelling, show me where in Joel 2 that there is an exclusionary clause to this "prosperity promise" that you have to stay in one place to get it.

 

[emekrus]

That quote in John is not about money or physical things.

It is about knowing God. This is why you have read the whole chapter not what you want to hear.

You've been led astray. Turn away from mammon and seek riches of God not man.

Where in the scripture or in logical reasoning did you get, that what Jesus said in that scripture preclude material and financial blessings.

Now about being led astray. What confidence do you have that you're in the right direction, judging carnally and from a Parochial point of view. Remember, God is a righteous judge. And he does not judge from appearance rather, he judges from the inside (motive). It's along this line, Jesus commanded us not to Judge. Especially the kind of arbitrary judgement you indulge in.

Yep, you sound like those prosperity teachers... You can deny it all you want, but you talk just like them. Name and claim it!

As for the apostles travelling, show me where in Joel 2 that there is an exclusionary clause to this "prosperity promise" that you have to stay in one place to get it.

Now with all sense of holy boldness- What problem do you really have with people naming things and claimimg it. For me, I think it is faith (and righteousness), for me to name what I want according to the will of God, as entrenched in the scriptures and claim it. On the other hand it would have been wrong, if I name it arbitrarily against the will of God and claim it. And you know, anything done out of faith, is sin. And I tell you, many folks will miss eternity out of unbelieve. The best way to the kingdom of God according to scriptures, is Faith. And not some form of religious self-righteous zeal.

As for the Apostles, the fact they didn't gather due to the travelling nature of their pioneering ministry, didn't mean they were poor. They part-take in the Joel 2 promise.
Then apart from that, in contemporary times, I know of so many saints (including my humble self) part-taking in the Joel 2 promises. Or how can you explain the financial provisions that comes through prayerful and diligent work. What about the plenty that comes to the saint serendipitiously without any form of begging, persuasion or coerxion. And also, how do you explain the abundance that come to a saint, after following a divine direction to pursue an Idea. Will you ascribe all these providence to the devil?

 

[pom2014]

Read the entire chapter of John that comes from and you'll see that its not mammon.

But you won't because you place faith into mammon.

 

[KingJ]

Well if you do not believe in prosperity, because you cannot yet see it, well you can toe your path. The young man Jesus asked to go sell all he had, didn't question Jesus . According to scriptures, 'he went away sad'. And the sin there, was not that he had plenty, but that he Idolized his wealth. He couldn't obey Jesus to go sell all he had to follow.

What would you say to the young rich man? 1. Go sell all you have because your heart is in your riches and don't worry too much because tomorrow I will tell you about God's promises of prosperity or 2. Go and sell all you have and come and serve God, full stop?

Did Jesus purposely withhold scriptures / promises of prosperity?

I think you are not getting my point. There was NO joy for the young rich man because there was NO promises of his riches returning.

 

[pom2014]

Kingj

The issue here its that those that want to yoke mammon with righteousness are people that want to eat their cake and have it too.