Two Views of God's Plan for Humankind - which stand in stark contrast

[St. SteVen]

--- PARODY ---

Two Christians discuss God's plan for humankind.
(reader discretion advised) - LOL

Christian #1: God's plan is to glorify himself in the destruction of the wicked.
Christian #2: Sounds like you are in BIG trouble.
Christian #1: What do you mean?
Christian #2: If God destroys all the wicked, who would be left?
Christian #1: Those who obey His commandments will be spared.
Christian #2: Right, you will be toast.
Christian #1: What do you mean?
Christian #2: Do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind?
Christian #1: Well, I do my best.
Christian #2: So you admit failure?
Christian #1: We can only do our best.
Christian #2: To miss the mark is not obedience.
Christian #1: What about you?
Christian #2: I have a different view of God's plan for humankind.
Christian #1: Like what?
Christian #2: God created humankind in his own image.
Christian #1: Agree. What else?
Christian #2: God is our heavenly Father.
Christian #1: Right. What else?
Christian #2: His love informs his plan and good intentions for all of humankind.
Christian #1: Now you've gone too far.
Christian #2: How come?
Christian #1: God's justice means punishing the disobedient.
Christian #2: You failed part A, should we consider part B?
Christian #1: What is part B?
Christian #2: Do you love your neighbor as yourself?
Christian #1: You haven't met my neighbor.
Christian #2: I am your neighbor.


The two views of God's plan for humankind stand in stark contrast.


View #1)
God created humankind to glorify himself in punishing them for their unworthiness.
He hand-selected a few as an Elect, predestined to avoid the destruction he would bring on the vast majority.
And it is not clear why he selected those he did, and bypassed the rest. Random selection?


View #2)
God created humankind in his own image. In the same way human children bear the image of their parents.
Even the terminology informs his relationship with us. God the Father. As the model for human fatherhood.
This parental love informs his plan and good intentions for all of humankind. This longing for family and
togetherness is woven into the human heart. We long for nothing as much as to be safe at home.

[

 

[Lambano]

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible

Here's an interesting one.

In 1 Timmy 1:17, Paul in his doxology refers to God as τῶν αἰώνων, literally "To the King, the one of the eons" (recognizing the genitive plural form of aion). Are we agreed that at least in this one scripture, "eternal" is an appropriate translation?

 

[Johann]

Here's an interesting one.

In 1 Timmy 1:17, Paul in his doxology refers to God as τῶν αἰώνων, literally "To the King, the one of the eons" (recognizing the genitive plural form of aion). Are we agreed that at least in this one scripture, "eternal" is an appropriate translation?

What about eternal Life?

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

Here's an interesting one.

In 1 Timmy 1:17, Paul in his doxology refers to God as τῶν αἰώνων, literally "To the King, the one of the eons" (recognizing the genitive plural form of aion). Are we agreed that at least in this one scripture, "eternal" is an appropriate translation?

Indeed.
And the phrase, "To the King, the one of the eons" recognizes that eternity is made of many ages. (eons)
The King of the Ages.

[

 

[Lambano]

Indeed.
And the phrase, "To the King, the one of the eons" recognizes that eternity is made of many ages. (eons)
The King of the Ages.

[

Are you sure you want to bring Stoic philosophy into play? That the universe crashes and burns in the great ἐκπύρωσις (conflagration) and then reforms itself every 36,000 years in an endless cycle of aions?

Jesus taught a more Jewish view, that you have "this age" and "the age to come".

 

[Lambano]

What about eternal Life?

J.

Indeed. Is ζωὴν αἰώνιον (zoen aionion) just for the next 36,000 years?

 

[Lambano]

--- PARODY ---

Two Christians discuss God's plan for humankind.
(reader discretion advised) - LOL

Did you ever take one of those evangelism courses where they teach you to lead off with, "God has a wonderful plan for your life!"

--- PARODY ---

Evangelist: God has a wonderful plan for your life!
Man on the street: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God.
Evangelist. Oh. Then that wonderful plan involves fire and sulphur.

You have my permission to use this in your next parody list.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you sure you want to bring Stoic philosophy into play? That the universe crashes and burns in the great ἐκπύρωσις (conflagration) and then reforms itself every 36,000 years?

No, nothing like that.

Jesus taught a more Jewish view, that you have "this age" and "the age to come".

Those two are important, and used comparatively, but there are many more.

• Proverbs 8:23
  I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
  
  
• Isaiah 45:17
  But Israel will be saved by the Lord with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
  
  
• Joel 2:2
  a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.
  
  
• Romans 16:25
  Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 10:11
  These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
  
  
• Ephesians 2:7
  in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
  
  
• Ephesians 3:9
  and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
  
  
• Colossians 1:26
  the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people.
  
  
• Hebrews 9:26
  Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
  
  
• Jude 1:25
  to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Did you ever take one of those evangelism courses where they teach you to lead off with, "God has a wonderful plan for your life!"

Yes. Isn't that the first law in Bill Bright's Four Spiritual Laws?

--- PARODY ---

Evangelist: God has a wonderful plan for your life!
Man on the street: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God.
Evangelist. Oh. Then that wonderful plan involves fire and sulphur.

LOL
I'm guessing that didn't result in a sale.

You have my permission to use this in your next parody list.

Thanks.

[

 

[Lambano]

Yes. Isn't that the first law in Bill Bright's Four Spiritual Laws?

Yeah, I had forgotten about that one!

 

[St. SteVen]

--- PARODY ---

Evangelist: God has a wonderful plan for your life!
Man on the street: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God.
Evangelist. Oh. Then that wonderful plan involves fire and sulphur.

You have my permission to use this in your next parody list.

I like collaboration projects.
If you'll permit me. We could work this up to a good punchline.

--- PARODY ---

Evangelist: God has a wonderful plan for your life!
Man on the street: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God.
Evangelist: Oh. Then that wonderful plan involves fire and sulphur.
Man on the street: What's wonderful about that?
Evangelist: Er... well... that it can be avoided?
Man on the street: Why is it there in the first place?
Evangelist: Because God is just.
Man on the street: What is just about me burning forever?
Evangelist: No sin is allowed in heaven.
Man on the street: Are you sinless?
Evangelist: I do my best.
Man on the street: That sounds like an admission of failure.
Evangelist: God knows my good intentions.
Man on the street: Isn't that what the road to hell is paved with?
Evangelist: You got me there.

--- Does that work? ---

[

 

[Lambano]

Those two are important, and used comparatively, but there are many more.

Long time and many eras. I was thinking more along the lines of Mark 10:29-30:

29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.

 

[Lambano]

--- Does that work? ---

Needs a little fine tuning.

 

[Johann]

Are you sure you want to bring Stoic philosophy into play? That the universe crashes and burns in the great ἐκπύρωσις (conflagration) and then reforms itself every 36,000 years?

Jesus taught a more Jewish view, that you have "this age" and "the age to come".

ETERNAL (aiōnios)

Robert B. Girdlestone, in his book Synonyms of the Old Testament, has an interesting comment on the word "eternal":

"The adjective aiōnios is used more than forty times in the N.T. with respect to eternal life, which is regarded partly as a present gift, partly as a promise for the future. It is also applied to God's endless existence in Rom. 16.26; to the endless efficacy of Christ's atonement in Heb. 9.12; 13.20; and to past ages in Rom. 16.25; 2 Tim. 1.9; Titus 1.2.

This word is used of

Israel's God as eternal
OT ‒ Deut. 33:27; Ps. 90:1-2
NT ‒ Rom. 16:26; Rev. 10:6; 15:7
Jesus as eternal ‒ Heb. 13:8; Rev. 1:18; 11:15
the Spirit as eternal ‒ Heb. 9:14
New Age, resurected, eternal life
Gospels
Matt. 19:16,29; 25:46
Mark 10:17,30
Luke 10:25; 18:18,30
John 3:15,16,36; 4:14,36; 5:24,39; 6:27,40,47,54,68; 10:28; 12:25,50; 17:2,3
Acts ‒ 13:46,48
Paul ‒ Rom. 2:7; 5:21; 6:22,23; Gal. 6:8; 1 Tim. 1:16; 6:12; Titus 1:2; 3:7
1 John 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11,13,20
Jude v. 21
salvation ‒ Heb. 5:9
redemption ‒ Heb. 9:15
believers' inheritance ‒ Heb. 9:15
God's covenant ‒ Heb. 13:20
eternal judgment ‒ see Special Topic below
For more information on the concept of "everlasting" or "forever" see:

SPECIAL TOPIC: ETERNAL PUNISHMENT

SPECIAL TOPIC: FOREVER ('olam)

SPECIAL TOPIC: FOREVER ('OLAM)

Forever -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yeah, I had forgotten about that one!

I had shared that booklet with dozens, if not hundreds of fine folks in street evangelism.
Both here and in Europe.

In fact, I saw the first "conversion" at a bus stop on a missions trip to England.
But that was a divine appointment. Not just a sales job.

I offered the booklet to a women at a bus stop and then walked away and stopped.
Then I walked back and asked her what she thought of it. She was on the spot and pulled it out.
I offered to go over it with her. She prayed the prayer at the end and then confided in me what this meant to her.
Wow.

She was a young Jewish woman struggling with issues about God. She was heading to New York
to spend time with her sibling and husband who were new Christians.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Needs a little fine tuning.

Good, send your edits, thanks.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Now I see why you are a lighthearted, humorous kind of fella.

"... it must be admitted that in many cases today,7 ‘universalists’ in the modern day do (lamentably) tend to be more often politcally ‘left-leaning’ and ideologically ‘progressive’ than non-universalist Christians. I suspect that this is primarily explained by two factors: (1) an emphasis on ‘compassion’ and ‘inclusion,’ and (2) a willingness to question certain ‘traditional’ or ‘conservative’ assumptions.

Yet a thoughtful observer will notice that these factors which may contribute to one being a universalist do not logically require one to be politically or ideologically left-leaning (as one such as myself could argue that, unlike progressivism, universalism is genuinely—not just seemingly—compassionate; and, unlike many conservative principles, everlasting damnation is a tradition worthy of a high level of skepticism, primarily due to its lack of sound biblical support)." Source

Which may explain...

WWJD with LGBTQ?

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not. It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug. Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it. And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out...

www.christianityboard.com

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

I'm still trying to help Christians understand this COMPLEX issue that they have reduced to a knee-jerk reaction. Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh. :( Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman...

www.christianityboard.com

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

The two views of God's plan for humankind stand in stark contrast.

View #1)
God created humankind to glorify himself in punishing them for their unworthiness.
He hand-selected a few as an Elect, predestined to avoid the destruction he would bring on the vast majority.
And it is not clear why he selected those he did, and bypassed the rest. Random selection?

View #2)
God created humankind in his own image. In the same way human children bear the image of their parents.
Even the terminology informs his relationship with us. God the Father. As the model for human fatherhood.
This parental love informs his plan and good intentions for all of humankind. This longing for family and
togetherness is woven into the human heart. We long for nothing as much as to be safe at home.

Question: What is the source of View #1 ?

John 10:10 NIV
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

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